120 replies to this topic

[Robert Gary]

Robert...

Folsom releases change hourly because of power generation. Obviously more power is needed during the daytime hours... so there is a greater release. At night... there is less.

Lake Natoma is the afterbay. It holds the water released from Folsom... and then releases the water at a constant value into the American River so the river levels do not fluctuate. The levels of Lake Natoma is what fluctuates. The value being released from Nimbus is currently 900 cfs... which would represent the hourly average out of Folsom.

Maybe you should read much into it.

That may be true to some extent but as someone who watches the release levels on a daily basis I can see that there must be much more to it. The outflow varies a lot day by day etc. You also notice that when we get rain, etc and the inflow increases they increase the outflow.
We only have a couple feet left to go before the Hobbie Ramp opens at Brown's Ravine!!!!


-Robert

[ducky]

That may be true to some extent but as someone who watches the release levels on a daily basis I can see that there must be much more to it. The outflow varies a lot day by day etc. You also notice that when we get rain, etc and the inflow increases they increase the outflow. We only have a couple feet left to go before the Hobbie Ramp opens at Brown's Ravine!!!!


-Robert

If this is true, then I repeat my question. Why do they need to increase the outflow when there's still lots of room for storage? I would imagine the rainfall when it occurs is already increasing the flows to the river from creeks and stormdrains.

[Bill Z]

Another week of "nice" weather for the 7 day forecast. Ugh!!!

If the weather keeps this up, I'm fearing Stage 3 won't last very long and we could see Stage 4 and possibly Stage 5 this summer.

[petro]

the lever of water in Folsom Lake is controled by the Corps of Engineers in coordination with the Bureau of Reclamation, they have an "flood envelope" that they must go by. They need to keep a certain capacity behind Folsom Dam depending on the time of year. They are always planning for that 100 year flood we always are hearing about. The closer it gets to spring the less likely we are to have more rain thus they will hold more water. They also factor in the snow depth.

This is a very simplistic view of how its done. They are obviously other factors that come into play like water demand up stream, river capacity downstream, etc.

You had it right on Nimbus Dam. Its a regulating reservoir. However the amount of water coming out of nimbus does vary based on downstream needs (fish, delta salinity, delta pumping).

[MSgt]

I remember in 1977 I lived in Atwater CA (by Merced) and we couldn't water our lawns at all for th entire summer. Everyones lawn dried up and turned yellow in our neighborhood. I wonder how bad it is now compared to then?

[Folsom Guy]

I wish we had a tankless instant hot water system like hotels. Turn the taps in bathroom, kitchen and you have immediate hot water because with our early 90s home it takes at least a minute or more to get hot water. What a waste unless you fill up a bucket like Chef to use elsewhere and I would be surprised if it doesn't happen to most homes.

Instead of the instant hot water spigot added to a sink as you describe above would a tankless hot water system work in an existing home (retrofit)?

Why doesnt the building codes require use of tankless systems to reduce wasting water waiting for hot water to get to the tap?

If a tankless system isnt can't be retrofitted to existing homes, is a whole house recirculation system a good option?

In the run-up to water metering, city (heck even Obama) could provide incentives for installing instant hot water system....

[DrKoz23]

That may be true to some extent but as someone who watches the release levels on a daily basis I can see that there must be much more to it. The outflow varies a lot day by day etc. You also notice that when we get rain, etc and the inflow increases they increase the outflow.
We only have a couple feet left to go before the Hobbie Ramp opens at Brown's Ravine!!!!


-Robert

Robert...

I give up then... you can believe what you want. I am partially involved in this subject for my career... but I guess the "experts" know best.

[DrKoz23]

Here are the daily outflows from Lake Natoma since June 1. The only changes you see are do to downstream needs (or flood reservation space). As you can see... they typically don't vary day to day.

In late June... you can see a scheduled release change from 4000 cfs to 3000 cfs. They ramped down to that number. However... it wasn't a wild fluctuation up and down. Obviously since these gages are automated... you do see some bad data in the chart.

 chartviewer.png   23.31K   1 downloads

[Bill Z]

Well, the last time I tried my emoticon rain dance, we got about an inch of rain. I think I need to turn it up a notch.

hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya

[Robert Gary]

I feel like you left me out of some part of the conversation. All I said is that if you look at the website you can see that the outflow varies a lot day to day; not just hour by hour. It also increases after a rain. Not sure what part of that twisted your drawers up. You can look at it yourself its all on the agency's website.

-Robert

Robert...

I give up then... you can believe what you want. I am partially involved in this subject for my career... but I guess the "experts" know best.

[DrKoz23]

I feel like you left me out of some part of the conversation. All I said is that if you look at the website you can see that the outflow varies a lot day to day; not just hour by hour. It also increases after a rain. Not sure what part of that twisted your drawers up. You can look at it yourself its all on the agency's website.

-Robert

Maybe I am just confused as to what you define as "a lot" for day to day changes. A lot to you might mean 200 cfs... whereas something on the order of 10000 cfs is a lot to me.

Just trying to educate a bit... because threads that state... "why are they letting so much water out of Folsom" get started every year. There are a lot of politics and other issues behind their decisions. Didn't mean to come off as having my feathers ruffled.

Time to start conserving BIG TIME... the snow survey for the month looks horrible. Time for everyone to do their rain/snow dance!

[DrKoz23]

Well, the last time I tried my emoticon rain dance, we got about an inch of rain. I think I need to turn it up a notch.

hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya hey ya high ya how ya hoe ya

This one might produce a flood!

[ducky]

Maybe I am just confused as to what you define as "a lot" for day to day changes. A lot to you might mean 200 cfs... whereas something on the order of 10000 cfs is a lot to me.

Just trying to educate a bit... because threads that state... "why are they letting so much water out of Folsom" get started every year. There are a lot of politics and other issues behind their decisions. Didn't mean to come off as having my feathers ruffled.

Time to start conserving BIG TIME... the snow survey for the month looks horrible. Time for everyone to do their rain/snow dance!

I appreciate your attempt to educate. I know the releases are pretty complicated, but it just concerns me when I hear there are politics involved because a lot of times politics have absolutely nothing to do with common sense. I just hope the releases aren't done the way mylo's monkey and the banana story works on the other thread.

http://www.tomatopag...d...c=23184&hl=

[supermom]

ok--I know we aren't getting a lot of rain--but we did get a lot of snow this year, right?

and with the unusually warm weather we have been getting....

One would think that the rivers would be flowing, right now...

[Bill Z]

ok--I know we aren't getting a lot of rain--but we did get a lot of snow this year, right?

and with the unusually warm weather we have been getting....

One would think that the rivers would be flowing, right now...

No we haven't. After all that heavy snow in Dec, the snowpack was only 60% or so of normal for that time of year. Until the recent dusting, the snow was already disappearing from the mountains as I could see exposed rock from where I work, so I'm guessing that the end of Jan measurement of snowpack will be <50% of normal, maybe <40%.

If the La Nina pattern doesn't change, and soon, and Feb & March don't make up for a weak Jan, i'm predicting Stage 4 or even Stage 5 by end of summer.