91 replies to this topic

[mylo]

For all the people complaining about cost, have you done government contracts/bidding? Or for a large company? I'm really not surprised about any of the costs associated with these new signs. Sure, it's high, and yes we could've built them in our backyards for $20 bucks, but that's the way government operates. I've personally worked on $10M projects that shouldn't have cost more than $1M. The system is just inherently inefficient.

[old soldier]

look to the bright side, sure the signs are confusing but it would have been a lot worse if we named the bridge after Johnny Cash and had loads and loads of tourists wandering around town spending money and getting a little lost with the signs.

isn't that old saying "putting a square peg in a round hole" meant to mean doing something that doesn't seem to work.

[tgianco]

look to the bright side, sure the signs are confusing but it would have been a lot worse if we named the bridge after Johnny Cash and had loads and loads of tourists wandering around town spending money and getting a little lost with the signs.

isn't that old saying "putting a square peg in a round hole" meant to mean doing something that doesn't seem to work.

Good point. We wouldn't want that to happen.

Thankfully, our democratically-elected cronies, er, council, decided otherwise.

[Darth Lefty]

The system is just inherently inefficient.

And the irony is that all the inefficiency is caused by the measures taken to prevent wasting money!

[eVader]

For all the people complaining about cost, have you done government contracts/bidding? Or for a large company? I'm really not surprised about any of the costs associated with these new signs. Sure, it's high, and yes we could've built them in our backyards for $20 bucks, but that's the way government operates. I've personally worked on $10M projects that shouldn't have cost more than $1M. The system is just inherently inefficient.

I'm in the wrong profession. Maybe I can develop a cool computer system for the government with little laser beams on it (lasers are like bacon...makes anything better). Although my cost is minimal, my consultation, installation, maintenance and annual upgrade fees will set me up quite nice.

[Dave Burrell]

I'm really not surprised about any of the costs associated with these new signs. Sure, it's high, and yes we could've built them in our backyards for $20 bucks, but that's the way government operates. I've personally worked on $10M projects that shouldn't have cost more than $1M. The system is just inherently inefficient.

I worked in graphic design and paying $34k to design those signs was about right. Figure one or two people's salaries for about 3-6 months. Design the signs in Illustrator, print mock ups, attend numerous meetings, go round and round thru the approval process back and forth for a month or two or three with the city, a commission and the people. (if that was all done). Then layout the final mock ups and send to the printer/sign maker. (of course thats in reality but when you add gov't involvment, make that a 2 year process instead of 2-3 months)

Spending 55k for consulting IMO seems wacky - who knows who at SCI Consulting group? We either needed the signs or didn't.... someone decided we did need them.... why did it take spending 55k for someone else to tell the city we needed funky way finding signs in Folsom? Man, I need to get into consulting - its like fleecing sheep (sorry no offense to anyone out there on either end)

nearly 300k to make and install the signs (assuming that's what Young Electric did). That's insane. I'd like to see the cost break down for that part of this deal. Was it perhaps because it was a no-bid contract or does that company use super expensive union workers? .... or were the signs made out of gold?

I'm curious too about the 15k additional to Square Peg for Implementation Phase, what was that really for? I would think implementation was the same as installation (that Young Electric was used for, noted above)



The problem with America right now is we gotta stop saying "but that's the way government operates. The system is just inherently inefficient."

enough is enough - bad gov't decisions are breaking this country - we need to work on stopping that trend by being more involved.... and making our elected leaders more accountable for their actions.

[cw68]

I worked in graphic design and paying $34k to design those signs was about right.

I, too, used to work in graphic design and the price seemed average.

[Dave Burrell]

I'm in the wrong profession. Maybe I can develop a cool computer system for the government with little laser beams on it (lasers are like bacon...makes anything better). Although my cost is minimal, my consultation, installation, maintenance and annual upgrade fees will set me up quite nice.

hehe exactly! - hey we should form a consulting group, we'll name it.... (replace lawyers with consultants)

[Dave Burrell]

I, too, used to work in graphic design and the price seemed average.

yes the design portion did seem right
- did that include the making of the signs? even if the additional 15k was added for making the signs, that was a good deal with that company.

the 300k installation price seemed very high - why did it cost that much ? What did Young Electric do? Would like to see that breakdown to understand it better.

[john]

I'm in the camp of "If it's gonna cost us half a million dollars for signs, we did fine without the signs anyway". $400,000 could have been spent on something that would boost tourism. Like, say, a statue of Johnny Cash in the historic district, with lots of money left over (not trying to have an agenda, it's just if we're talking about tourism, Johnny Cash has been overlooked for far too long).

I will never accept government wasting our money just because that's the status quo. It's just not right. I don't care if that's how they run things in government. It's still not right.

I honestly think the signs were not that big of a deal until people figured out the cost to the city. That's when everyone got outraged. All the visibility / redundancy issues would have been overlooked if the city had simply made an effort to reduce costs.

[Robert Giacometti]

I worked in graphic design and paying $34k to design those signs was about right. Figure one or two people's salaries for about 3-6 months. Design the signs in Illustrator, print mock ups, attend numerous meetings, go round and round thru the approval process back and forth for a month or two or three with the city, a commission and the people. (if that was all done). Then layout the final mock ups and send to the printer/sign maker. (of course thats in reality but when you add gov't involvment, make that a 2 year process instead of 2-3 months)

Spending 55k for consulting IMO seems wacky - who knows who at SCI Consulting group? We either needed the signs or didn't.... someone decided we did need them.... why did it take spending 55k for someone else to tell the city we needed funky way finding signs in Folsom? Man, I need to get into consulting - its like fleecing sheep (sorry no offense to anyone out there on either end)



enough is enough - bad gov't decisions are breaking this country - we need to work on stopping that trend by being more involved.... and making our elected leaders more accountable for their actions.

Why did we pay anything for the designs? According to Mylo's previous post, the design work was done by volunteers.

Why didn't we just submit what the group decided and have them made?

So we paid for the design of a sign, that can't be read by the out of town people, the signs were supposed to help? How is spending any money on something that doesn serve the intended purpose about right?

I don't understand why community service groups weren't approached about doing the installation?

[ducky]

I'm in the camp of "If it's gonna cost us half a million dollars for signs, we did fine without the signs anyway". $400,000 could have been spent on something that would boost tourism. Like, say, a statue of Johnny Cash in the historic district, with lots of money left over (not trying to have an agenda, it's just if we're talking about tourism, Johnny Cash has been overlooked for far too long).

I will never accept government wasting our money just because that's the status quo. It's just not right. I don't care if that's how they run things in government. It's still not right.

I honestly think the signs were not that big of a deal until people figured out the cost to the city. That's when everyone got outraged. All the visibility / redundancy issues would have been overlooked if the city had simply made an effort to reduce costs.

Well said, John.

[FolsomH2O]

after reading through all 6 pages of this thread, it has lead me to these thoughts:

1. John, I agree with you
2. at least 3 out of 5 City Council members had to vote yes for this project.
3. these new signs have really cut down on the number of out of towners driving around lost. LOL
4. these new signs are really hard to read.
5. wasting tax dollars is never ok regardless of the result.
6. so what are we going to do about this? are we just going to vent on a forum or are we going to remember this when it comes to elections in 2 years. As long as we allow the government to keep getting away with this type of insane spending on projects with this type of results, they will keep doing it. It sure seems like there are more of us that don't like the results then there are of those that voted to do this project.

[Terry]

yeah but that's because Terry is stopping to spell check all the signs

Yoo krak mee uhp!

[sty10k]

after reading through all 6 pages of this thread, it has lead me to these thoughts:

1. John, I agree with you
2. at least 3 out of 5 City Council members had to vote yes for this project.
3. these new signs have really cut down on the number of out of towners driving around lost. LOL
4. these new signs are really hard to read.
5. wasting tax dollars is never ok regardless of the result.
6. so what are we going to do about this? are we just going to vent on a forum or are we going to remember this when it comes to elections in 2 years. As long as we allow the government to keep getting away with this type of insane spending on projects with this type of results, they will keep doing it. It sure seems like there are more of us that don't like the results then there are of those that voted to do this project.

It's a lot easier to be reactive than proactive. There are a lot of ways to get involved with the local government. You don't have to wait two years to make a difference. Now, I'm sure if you ask anyone they'd like more transparency in government. But I don't think it's reasonable to poll the community on every issue.

Personally, I like the signs. I can read them (but I'm young, so I may be the exception), I like the color scheme, and I think they're helpful.

The cost does seem high, but before rushing to judgement I'd like to see the specs on the signs. What's the expected lifespan? What materials were used? If lower quality (or non reflective) paint had been used, would we have to replace the signs quicker? From the equipment they used to install the signs (large crane on a truck), they look very sturdy.