82 replies to this topic

[bordercolliefan]

You obviously don't understand the question WHY or how to answer it.
This isn't a "no brainer", in fact, I'm wanting the "brainer" answer, not the "no brainer" because they said so.

Just because studies show it to be true doesn't answer the question WHY it is true.

Do you understand that distinction?

Let's look at a simpler non-biological problem. Take a normal coin. If I flip it a 100 times, on average, 50% of the time it will come up heads, 50% of the time it will be tails. It doesn't matter how many times I perform the study, the results of the study do not explain why it is true, they only demonstrate it to be true. Only mathematics and probability explain the why.
So I accept the CDC's studies results that experimentation shows children should get 2 doses, what I want to know is WHY? what is the underlying scientific biological reason WHY?

As for my other question. How is the virus weakened? I've already been told over and over that the flu mist is weakened live viruses, I want to know HOW they are weakened.

You are right, Inwit, it is almost impossible to get information that goes deeper than the simplified pablum the CDC wants us to have.

I don't know the answers to your questions. I would surmise that the juvenile immune system is not as good as an older person's at mounting an immune response. Maybe it takes practice for the body to learn how to do so effectively. But digging deeper than that, I don't know.

Once I sent an email to the Sac County "Help for H1N1 Questions." I think my question was whether it was advisable for children to attend a gymnastics competition that was going to attract 1,000+ kids -- a potential hotbed of H1N1 exposure. Of course, the answer to this question wasn't in the "talking points" that the CDC gave out. So, the answer came back: "Talk to your pediatrician and use your best judgment." Gee, thanks... glad I'm paying tax dollars for these "experts."

[JLS]

Inwit, I understand your question but don't have an answer. I think the reason why this information isn't as prevalent is because its the same rules as the normal seasonal flu shot.

I haven't tried in depth but I believe if you search for your questions relating to the seasonal flu shot instead of the H1N1 then there is ALOT more information available. Even if you look up "Influenza Vaccine" in general there will be alot of pages that go into depth about the scientific of how and why they are made the way they are.

H1N1 or not, babies still need 2 flu shots. H1N1 or not, the nasal spray is still the "weakened" live virus. It's all the same for the most part to my knowledge with the exception of the "effectiveness" since that comes down to alot of different factors.

So, sorry if I'm a bunk answer again for you but all I'm trying to say is that if you've exausted your research by using H1N1 wording then I would drop that word all together as its really not necessary for your answer and there will be alot more documented information about the influenza shot. I don't know the exact answers but I remember looking up the same thing when my first daughter was born and we had to make a decision on the flu shot (before the H1N1 stuff). As well as when I heard about people getting flu shots up the nose when that first came out... back then it was easier to find the details on that question.

[JLS]

Also try a search like "flumist genetically altered" and you might find more information about how the genetically altered to make the live weakened virus "not cause the flu".

[mbsdws]

Inwit: I believe this is more like the answer you are looking for....

How is it 'weakened'?

http://stanford.well...for-h1n1/777852

Live Attenuated Flu Virus Vaccine For H1N1Posted Aug 23 2009 11:22pm A live attenuated flu vaccine is part of the vaccination procedures for the preemptive preparations to thwart the expected resurgence of the novel H1N1 Swine flu. Most people don't know that an attenuated flu vaccine is an actual live flu virus. The difference with the virus is that it has been "weakened" through a process called "passing". Passing is the process of repeatedly growing the virus over and over again in a cell culture in a lab which typically results in the virus being weakened so that it has less disease causing capacity. So part of the treatment and preliminary vaccination for the novel H1N1 Swine flu is to administer the actual Swine flu virus into individuals. Interestingly, the actual molecular basis for this attenuation or weakening is unknown and the WHO - World Health Organization states that any new attenuated virus used as a vaccine is likely to contain one or more specific mutations injected into the genome.

Attenuated viruses have been used in the past for various forms of vaccination and are also part of the regular flu vaccinations. Most often they are used as a backup when the availability of inactivated vaccines is scarce. In most instances in the past, the attenuated viruses such as Laiv(FluMist®) have helped prevent illness in individuals. Symptoms that occur after treatment with attenuated viruses can mimic illness such as runny nose, congestion, tiredness, fatigue, headache, cough. These mild effects are generally short lived compared to flu infection. However,since these treatments are the actual live flu virus there are also instances in which the recipients themselves get sick and also transmit the virus to others. The transmission rate is estimated to be 1-2.4%. The initial five target groups for preemptive vaccination against the novel H1N1 Swine flu comprises 159 million people alone in the United States. A 2% infection rate on half of this group is over 1.5 million people. Now figure in how many people who come into contact with those inadvertently infected people. So in essence the prevention procedures for the novel H1N1 Swine Flu virus could actually contribute to the development and spread of the flu virus nationally and internationally. It is a bit of a conundrum but that is the circumstance of the situation we are now facing. ( I need to point out that the flu vaccines being used will not all be attenuated virus vaccines and that many will be inactivated ( dead ) viruses)

The H1N1 Swine flu virus is a novel virus and may not respond or act typical to other flu viruses should it mutate further. It has already proved to be evolving. Reported earlier this week, it has been found that the Swine flu has now passed from humans to poultry. This should be taken seriously since the primary concern with the Swine flu is that if it should mix further with the Avian flu then the potential new strain of virus would make the current Swine flu, which is highly contagious but not deadly, a highly contagious and deadly strain that would not only affect billions of humans but meat and poultry worldwide. Stay tuned as I will continue to follow this virus and try to bring you a bit of perspective. Thanks for reading.

[Inwit]

Inwit: I believe this is more like the answer you are looking for....

How is it 'weakened'?

http://stanford.well...for-h1n1/777852

Thank you

That was very informative.

[JLS]

Inwit, if you click on the manufactures links in the dosage charts and then go to their "descriptions" page it goes very in-depth into the process of how they are made by each company. I stumbled upon it on accident and thought it may be of interest to you.

http://www.cdc.gov/h...tion/dosage.htm

Also, this link goes into the recent study of two doses vs one:

http://www3.niaid.ni...1N1PedTrial.htm

Doesn't say the "sciences" behind it but does tell you the dosage is the same basically etc.

[wreathlady]

Inwit, if you click on the manufactures links in the dosage charts and then go to their "descriptions" page it goes very in-depth into the process of how they are made by each company. I stumbled upon it on accident and thought it may be of interest to you.

http://www.cdc.gov/h...tion/dosage.htm

Also, this link goes into the recent study of two doses vs one:

http://www3.niaid.ni...1N1PedTrial.htm

Doesn't say the "sciences" behind it but does tell you the dosage is the same basically etc.

Funny, have not been here for a while, I see you and Palango are still going for it.

You both accused me of the same things you are doing. You both really need to get lives.
Palango must not work and JLS you are just trying to preserve your family, just like me.
Never cast stones, as they make come back to you.
See the news, the CDC has you really thinking, does it not. They are really pushing the vaccine. I actually know more people who are getting sick after the vaccine. My grandson has not been well since he got his seasonal flu shot. He is a very healthy 14 year old and has nothing but problems since his shot. He had the H1n1, not tested, but pretty sure then got another relapse. He has been on more antibiotics then he has ever been in 1 month compared to his 14 years. Something is up. You all keep trusting the CDC. All stay healthy.

[JLS]

I never cast stones at you or meant to silence you in any way. I was just genuinely worried about you but I've learned my lesson. I'm not on this forum to make enemies in any way Mary. I'm sorry AGAIN for hurting your feelings. It wasn't my intentions.

I've been LIVING H1N1 for the past week. It has got ahold of some in our family and we are doing our best to fight off this stupid thing.

At the same time the vaccine has been pretty readily available and we have all (many in our family) got vaccinated because we all have conditions that our Dr's instructed us to. None of us have had any side effects as of yet.

I don't believe in the normal flu vaccine personally but this is quite a bit different and a direct match.

Your grandson had all the symptoms that they warn you of experiencing after he received the flu shot. Maybe it was H1N1, maybe it wasn't and it was the flu shot like the dr's told you at sutter. I don't know but if he has something now then I hope he is ok.

I don't believe in the CDC conspiracy theory's. Sorry, I don't in any way. They certainly aren't my temple but they are the source of info for our government and I personally feel its better to listen to them rather then hear-say on forums.