121 replies to this topic

[Redone]

No cost of living. Nada.

FYI the CPI index is in negative territory so you would not get a "COLA" based on cost of living even if it was in a contract. Cost of living is down per govt statistics.

( I know, where do they make this up, but true )

[MikeinFolsom]

Sure. We'll let an engine go out of service. You let me know what neighborhood you live in and it'll be that engine that goes out of service. That way, the first fire engine to your house will now be 8 or 9 minutes in getting there. Sound like something you want to have?

You seem to think there is a lot of fluff in the department. Books are public forum. Go look at them. Scour them for all the pork you seem to think is floating out there. Oh yeah, seasonal firefighters are still considered full time paid employees during their seasonal time. So if no one takes a day off, those seasonal people are now 'extra' people just sitting around. Now you want to create fluff, but you want to cut fluff, but you think we should hire fluff, but only if the perfect situation exists and they are actually needed that day? Puff puff pass???

I know what the comparables are. I know what it costs to put a Folsom FF on the streets versus neighboring departments and districts. Unfortunately, again, your data is wrong. But there again, why doesn't that surprise me? Don't worry JRudi, I won't hold it against you. Call 911 and all your problems will be handled, even if you're still hurt that you never were able to get the job you always wished you could.

[ducky]

Sure. We'll let an engine go out of service. You let me know what neighborhood you live in and it'll be that engine that goes out of service. That way, the first fire engine to your house will now be 8 or 9 minutes in getting there. Sound like something you want to have?

You seem to think there is a lot of fluff in the department. Books are public forum. Go look at them. Scour them for all the pork you seem to think is floating out there. Oh yeah, seasonal firefighters are still considered full time paid employees during their seasonal time. So if no one takes a day off, those seasonal people are now 'extra' people just sitting around. Now you want to create fluff, but you want to cut fluff, but you think we should hire fluff, but only if the perfect situation exists and they are actually needed that day? Puff puff pass???

I know what the comparables are. I know what it costs to put a Folsom FF on the streets versus neighboring departments and districts. Unfortunately, again, your data is wrong. But there again, why doesn't that surprise me? Don't worry JRudi, I won't hold it against you. Call 911 and all your problems will be handled, even if you're still hurt that you never were able to get the job you always wished you could.

See, this is what I'm afraid of. Inexperienced people who blindly say they are going to cut fat but don't pay attention to the consequences. I like knowing if I get in a traffic accident that emergency and PD vehicles will be there in the snap of a finger. It's one of the best things about Folsom. I've lived in places where you were lucky if they showed up at all.

I don't care what JRudi says. Please don't take the engine by my house out of service. Make those copy machines last a year longer. If they stop collating, my house doesn't burn down.

[Ahnold]

Sometimes I feel like I am talking to my three year old when I respond to you.

Reading this interesting exchange I can't help but note that you, Mike, are the one lobbing insults and acting like a 3-year old, while JRudi seems to be raising some very valid points that appear to be hitting a little close to home and making you defensive. I think you have some good arguments too but you aren't doing yourself any favors with the name-calling. Just saying.

[old soldier]

the nice thing in addition to saving homes and people is the fact fire fighters all read up and study current events and politics during their waiting time, so that when a person is running for office it is always a big deal to have the firefighters endorsement.

I got into an argument with a guy who said the fire fighter and police endorsements really go to the politicians who promise to give them more raises and benefits...gosh that would be sad if that was true

[JRudi]

Sure. We'll let an engine go out of service. You let me know what neighborhood you live in and it'll be that engine that goes out of service. That way, the first fire engine to your house will now be 8 or 9 minutes in getting there. Sound like something you want to have?

You seem to think there is a lot of fluff in the department. Books are public forum. Go look at them. Scour them for all the pork you seem to think is floating out there. Oh yeah, seasonal firefighters are still considered full time paid employees during their seasonal time. So if no one takes a day off, those seasonal people are now 'extra' people just sitting around. Now you want to create fluff, but you want to cut fluff, but you think we should hire fluff, but only if the perfect situation exists and they are actually needed that day? Puff puff pass???

I know what the comparables are. I know what it costs to put a Folsom FF on the streets versus neighboring departments and districts. Unfortunately, again, your data is wrong. But there again, why doesn't that surprise me? Don't worry JRudi, I won't hold it against you. Call 911 and all your problems will be handled, even if you're still hurt that you never were able to get the job you always wished you could.

You can't dispute the facts. There is a tremendous amount of waste in the Folsom Police and Fire Departments. Again, I invite you to check the information compiled by the League of California Cities. Even Roseville, who generally has the highest salaries and benefits in our area for mid-size cities, is able to put a sworn police officer and a firefighter on the street for about a third less than it costs Folsom. And, we are approaching the cost of the City of Vallejo, who had to declare bankruptcy because of the excessive salaries and benefits they guaranteed to their public safety unions through labor agreements. I value my public safety services, but I don't want my city going bankrupt just because a few politicians want to appease two powerful unions. The City should be able to (and I would argue they are obligated to) provide these services at relatively the same costs as other similarly sized cities in our region.

Frankly, I'm tired of hearing firefighters say that if the city tries to reduce their salary and benefits people are going to begin dying in the streets. I know doctors and nurses who had their salaries and benefits reduced, and their response wasn't that they were going to allow their patients to die. I would prefer not blacking out another engine, but unless your union is willing to agree to accept cuts in their members' salaries and benefits, I'm afraid we may have no choice. The other employee groups agreed to make sacrifices by accepting reduced salaries and benefits, and your group should too. It is not only fair, but the consequences if you don't are reduced services. If your group truely cares about saving lives, they will agree to such cuts. They are in negotiations now with City Management, and I hope for the sake of this community that they agree to make sacrifices.

An optioh available to this city, which has been explored by others, is to bring in private ambulance service to replace our paramedics. Studies have shown that this is far more cost-effective than paying the high salaries and benefits of city paramedics. I hope that it doesn't come down to this in Folsom, but I would support this if the Fire Union refuses to make sacrifices as it has in the past.

[supermom]

the nice thing in addition to saving homes and people is the fact fire fighters all read up and study current events and politics during their waiting time, so that when a person is running for office it is always a big deal to have the firefighters endorsement.

I got into an argument with a guy who said the fire fighter and police endorsements really go to the politicians who promise to give them more raises and benefits...gosh that would be sad if that was true

Wow, old soldier!

I don't know if I should laugh, or scratch my head in puzzlement.

[supermom]

An optioh available to this city, which has been explored by others, is to bring in private ambulance service to replace our paramedics. Studies have shown that this is far more cost-effective than paying the high salaries and benefits of city paramedics. I hope that it doesn't come down to this in Folsom, but I would support this if the Fire Union refuses to make sacrifices as it has in the past.

An option that passes those costs down to the victims and their families?
We are talking about the same city (Roseville) which wants the ambulance and fire to each charge for responding to a call? The same city that steals money from the county coffers by not sending in their ticket revenues ( I actually think that one is kinda funny- since it ain't the sheriffs that are ticketing).

I'm curious, how do you come up with these studies and percentages? Sounds like HRO knowledge. Do you work for the city? How do you have so much information which the rest of us are not privy to? (I mean, if your a hacker, ofcoarse don't tell us, but...)

[ducky]

An option that passes those costs down to the victims and their families?
We are talking about the same city (Roseville) which wants the ambulance and fire to each charge for responding to a call? The same city that steals money from the county coffers by not sending in their ticket revenues ( I actually think that one is kinda funny- since it ain't the sheriffs that are ticketing).

I'm curious, how do you come up with these studies and percentages? Sounds like HRO knowledge. Do you work for the city? How do you have so much information which the rest of us are not privy to? (I mean, if your a hacker, ofcoarse don't tell us, but...)

JRudi works for the city.

[texson]

Jrudi, you are way off base, and the fact that you seem to know a lot about certain terminologies etc... tells me and have been eluded to that you work for the city. If you do, shame on you. First, constant staffing is a model adopted by THE CITY to have minimal staffing on each piece of equipment. If, like you propose, someone calls in sick, then the rest of the crew "sucks it up?" what if that person that happens to be the paramedic on the engine? I guess now you the citizen must suck up any early paramedic interventions you may need. Now im not into the whole scare tactics thing toward the citizenes from public safety. The FACTS are these, Folsom FD is at minimal staffing, constant staffing says you must fill each seat with a body with proper qualifications, The "extra" batallion chiefs you mentioned do the suppression staffing and will not be hired for after they both retire in the next 18 months. If you are supporting an engine brownout, should we start with your neighborhood? Look, there are only 3 engines, 1 truck and two ambulances for the city, same as the 80's i believe. Obviously you do not live out in empire ranch where a station was supposed to be built and staffed (by last year). Now, the engine that covers my neighborhood has to go out to empire ranch. Bottom line, get your facts straight.

[spork]

I don't know how much the average Folsom firefighter makes, but I know one (aquaintance) that made over $12,000 in one month.

It was probably a lot of overtime, and it may not have been a typical month. However, for someone under 30 to make that much as a ff seemed crazy. I'm guessing most fire calls in Folsom are for hurt/injured people and not actual fires, so they are not in life-threatening situations. Basically paramedics/EMTs who will occssionally put out a fire.

Cities almost have no negotiating power with police and fire because they just say there will be blood on the streets if you don't pay them. Kinda like the mafia.

If there are any firefighters here and know of an entry level opening, please let me know. I would love to work as a FF in Folsom. I'm not kidding, I would really love to become a firefighter. I never see any openings on the city website. Apparently there is a far greater supply of applicants than there are actual jobs.

[Darth Lefty]

...a little birdie...a certain city council member...a certain individual in power...this person...this individual...This person...two captains...this person...A whistle blower...I was told ...some residents ...this person and two other additional council members ...one snake like person...

We need to vote out all the incumbents and spread the word to ensure none of those people get re-elected.

I don't know who to vote against if you won't tell me who you are tarring with your brush.

[Robert Giacometti]

JRudi works for the city.

How were you able to determine this? Where is your proof Jrudi works for the city?

I'm just trying to get to the truth.

[Redone]

JRudi works for the city.

If true, that would bump credibility of their posts don't you think ?

[MikeinFolsom]

12 grand in one month? I can see that. 80 hours of OT probably. The same amount the average person works in two weeks, EXTRA. As for open positions in the FD, PD, or the City in general, good luck in finding ANY openings. Couple of cutbacks here and there took care of that.