96 replies to this topic

[Bombero]

Yes ignore the truth, facts just get in the way anyways when it comes to unions causing increased tax burdens due to greed

Yes, if you in "fact" knew the truth especially as it relates to what the Folsom Firefighters have done to help the "city" mitigate their fiscal incompetency you would stop with your internet troll posts.

[Robert Giacometti]

Yes, if you in "fact" knew the truth especially as it relates to what the Folsom Firefighters have done to help the "city" mitigate their fiscal incompetency you would stop with your internet troll posts.

Maybe you could enlighten all the rest of us with your facts?

How about if you go back 20 years and list salaries and benefits ( including pension costs) back in 1992 and compare them to todays salaries, along with the costs of inflation and then we all will have all the facts to form our opinions?

[MikeinFolsom]

Maybe you could enlighten all the rest of us with your facts?

How about if you go back 20 years and list salaries and benefits ( including pension costs) back in 1992 and compare them to todays salaries, along with the costs of inflation and then we all will have all the facts to form our opinions?

Why only 20 years? Why not 30 years? That statement really makes no sense at all. How much was your house worth 20 years ago? How much was a tank of gas? Gallon of milk? Clothes for your kid? Units for a college course. Sometimes I think you really get off track. Most of the time you're a one dimensional guy......the city pension fund is only X amount funded. There was a land deal 400 years ago that the city swept under the carpet. Start becoming more current. Old arguments are just that......Old.

[Robert Giacometti]

Why only 20 years? Why not 30 years? That statement really makes no sense at all. How much was your house worth 20 years ago? How much was a tank of gas? Gallon of milk? Clothes for your kid? Units for a college course. Sometimes I think you really get off track. Most of the time you're a one dimensional guy......the city pension fund is only X amount funded. There was a land deal 400 years ago that the city swept under the carpet. Start becoming more current. Old arguments are just that......Old.

Ok, you win go back 30 years and list all the data from then.

The point I was trying to make is that City just didn't get itself into this financial situation, its been building to this point over the years. One would think the salaries and benefits would have increased proportinately relative to inflation give or take a few percentage points over the years. Why not list all the data and see if this is accurate or not?

I'm all for comparing costs of those things you mentioned, that is why I suggested factoring in the costs of inflation. I'd sure hate to find out the City of Folsom was taking advantage of its public servants by not keeping up with inflation.

I'm going to keep asking where the funds to pay for the unfunded pension obligations are going to come from, because I don't know. Asking questiosn about things I don't have answers for is one those bad habits I've picked over the years. I figured a multidimensional intelligent guy like yourself could explain that to me and the rest of us on here, who don't know.

Its ironic you brought up the land deal where the City left about $14 million on the table. As I recall we used to have a surplus of about $16 million and now its down to about $2 million. I'll let you do the math on that one!

[The Average Joe]

Because it is the unsustainable deals with public employees that are causing a big part of the burden for counties and cities all over CA. Their rate of benefits has not remained constant (adjusted for inflation). There was a substantial spiking during the 90's and early 2000's. That was what Dude was referring to. (One big reason Davis was recalled) To ignore the root of what is causing our current issues is foolish. The pension is only x% funded...why is that important? Because one day, YOU will want your benefits, the money won't be there, and further cuts/fees will be imposed on ME.
Of course I can always take my money to another state that did not prostitute itself for the public unions. You however are the one the promises were made to.

Did you even read the link from my earlier post? Overview of pension issues for CA government

Promises were made that are impossible to keep. The constant outflow of dollars to meet those obligations are resulting in increased fees (like this bs crash tax), or diminished services.

Is that current enough for you? Once fiscal reality forces it, public employees will have to switch to a defined contribution rather than a defined benefit. That is the only way to stay solvent.

[Bombero]

Some people get it and some people don't

And you don't....

[Bombero]

To Robert G....

Nobody, including the firefighter's union held a gun to the city councils head, especially those that have been there over 2 terms. The firefighters in Folsom have always, I mean always negotiated in good faith and with a sense of fiscal responsibility to the city and its citizens. They have never been the highest paid in the area and in fact always seem to find themselves in the bottom or close to it when it comes to wages and benefits. The firefighters get a prevailing wage and benefits commensurate to the job you expect them to do. Do your own homework and find out what concessions have been made to mitigate the windmills you chase.

I wish you would pick your enemy Robert. You remind me of Don Quixote....

[Bombero]

And for the record.... The crash tax is ludicrous... Go the the second reading at city council meeting to voice your concerns. Better yet, vote out the yahoos that vote for it if they do....

[Robert Giacometti]

To Robert G....

Nobody, including the firefighter's union held a gun to the city councils head, especially those that have been there over 2 terms. The firefighters in Folsom have always, I mean always negotiated in good faith and with a sense of fiscal responsibility to the city and its citizens. They have never been the highest paid in the area and in fact always seem to find themselves in the bottom or close to it when it comes to wages and benefits. The firefighters get a prevailing wage and benefits commensurate to the job you expect them to do. Do your own homework and find out what concessions have been made to mitigate the windmills you chase.

I wish you would pick your enemy Robert. You remind me of Don Quixote....

I didn't realize I was picking enemies? Completely agree that it was the council who agreed to the terms of the contracts and you are correct no one forced them to do this!

I thought I was trying to have a discussion regarding your claim of concessions that have been made. By all means please share with all of us what those concessions are? If I was working in the public sector and was making concessions, I'd sure be explaining that to people to help everyone become better informed.

I've never understood the logic behind not helping people become better informed, unless one doesn't want them to become better informed?

Its really sad you haven't figured out the bus is headed towards the cliff. This doesn't need to happen, because who knows what is going to be left after all the pieces are scattered all over the place. Its true I've been talking about events that are contributing to this happening for 10 plus years. After the next election, the council will amazingly be back holding meetings about additional cuts they have to make in services to all the residents or what fees they are going increase.

I'd encouarge some to be more procative in controlling their future BEFORE the Golden Goose is too sick to lay any more eggs.

[MikeinFolsom]

Because it is the unsustainable deals with public employees that are causing a big part of the burden for counties and cities all over CA. Their rate of benefits has not remained constant (adjusted for inflation). There was a substantial spiking during the 90's and early 2000's. That was what Dude was referring to. (One big reason Davis was recalled) To ignore the root of what is causing our current issues is foolish. The pension is only x% funded...why is that important? Because one day, YOU will want your benefits, the money won't be there, and further cuts/fees will be imposed on ME.
Of course I can always take my money to another state that did not prostitute itself for the public unions. You however are the one the promises were made to.

Did you even read the link from my earlier post? Overview of pension issues for CA government

Promises were made that are impossible to keep. The constant outflow of dollars to meet those obligations are resulting in increased fees (like this bs crash tax), or diminished services.

Is that current enough for you? Once fiscal reality forces it, public employees will have to switch to a defined contribution rather than a defined benefit. That is the only way to stay solvent.

I think the root of the problem can be traced to a few years back when PERS was riding high and all (ALL) of the local governments were given a 'contribution holiday' and did not have to pay the employee share of the PERS contribution. (9% of salary). Oh yeah, the same contribution that we passed up salary increases and COLA increases over the years to maintain.....at one point going 4 years without an increase while the rest of the world laughed at public employees (2004-2008) because we were making squat while the rest of the world was 'riding the bull market'.

So instead of putting those funds away for when they would most need them (NOW) they spent them on other ridiculous things. Sports complex. Library. $1,000,000 to Mercy Folsom for a helicopter landing pad. To name a few. They failed to plan. Sounds like several others on this forum did too.

I think Robert G should really look into the PERS account and find out just how much of a burden the system really is. 3% of the ENTIRE state budget. 3%. Then look into the pay scales that are always posted on the city website. Examine the salaries. See just how out of whack they are with mainstream society today. Don't get all worked up over top management, that's another story. Look at rank and file. Tell me how lavish the scales are. And when you start reading about how bad the PERS system is for the state, look at the source. Maybe it's the same guys pressing for everyone to be in a 401(k) type system. Maybe it's those same guys that handled the Facebook IPO. Wall Street wants your money.......

[MikeinFolsom]

I didn't realize I was picking enemies? Completely agree that it was the council who agreed to the terms of the contracts and you are correct no one forced them to do this!

I thought I was trying to have a discussion regarding your claim of concessions that have been made. By all means please share with all of us what those concessions are? If I was working in the public sector and was making concessions, I'd sure be explaining that to people to help everyone become better informed.

I've never understood the logic behind not helping people become better informed, unless one doesn't want them to become better informed?

Its really sad you haven't figured out the bus is headed towards the cliff. This doesn't need to happen, because who knows what is going to be left after all the pieces are scattered all over the place. Its true I've been talking about events that are contributing to this happening for 10 plus years. After the next election, the council will amazingly be back holding meetings about additional cuts they have to make in services to all the residents or what fees they are going increase.

I'd encouarge some to be more procative in controlling their future BEFORE the Golden Goose is too sick to lay any more eggs.

Concessions? Okay.....The City of Folsom was the first to eliminate retiree health care for all new hires. The City of Folsom was the first to revert back to 2% at 50 for all new hires. The City of Folsom was the first to implement that all employees pay the employee portion of their PERS 9%. We switched medical plans and now pay 3% of our salary towards monthly premiums. Our co-pays doubled. New hires no longer get longevity. All longevity increases and educational incentives have been frozen. And that's just within the last year. How's that for starters? It's easy to rant and rave, but c'mon.....there's always two sides to the story.

[Stop South of 50]

Concessions? Okay.....The City of Folsom was the first to eliminate retiree health care for all new hires. The City of Folsom was the first to revert back to 2% at 50 for all new hires. The City of Folsom was the first to implement that all employees pay the employee portion of their PERS 9%. We switched medical plans and now pay 3% of our salary towards monthly premiums. Our co-pays doubled. New hires no longer get longevity. All longevity increases and educational incentives have been frozen. And that's just within the last year. How's that for starters? It's easy to rant and rave, but c'mon.....there's always two sides to the story.

Correct me if I am wrong... and I apologize in advance if I am... but you pay 3 percent toward health care and the city picks up the other 97 percent???

[Robert Giacometti]

I think Robert G should really look into the PERS account and find out just how much of a burden the system really is. 3% of the ENTIRE state budget. 3%. Then look into the pay scales that are always posted on the city website. Examine the salaries. See just how out of whack they are with mainstream society today. Don't get all worked up over top management, that's another story. Look at rank and file. Tell me how lavish the scales are. And when you start reading about how bad the PERS system is for the state, look at the source. Maybe it's the same guys pressing for everyone to be in a 401(k) type system. Maybe it's those same guys that handled the Facebook IPO. Wall Street wants your money.......

You may recall I was the ONLY person in the City of Folsom who spoke out at the Council meeting against giving out that newly created Bridge consultant position to the former City manager at over $16,000 ( from memory) per month without getting any bids.

How many times have I talked about making the Former City Manager the highest paid in the region despite NOT having any previous experience?

Thanks for sharing the information about the concessions!

[MikeinFolsom]

Correct me if I am wrong... and I apologize in advance if I am... but you pay 3 percent toward health care and the city picks up the other 97 percent???

That's not what I said. I said 3% of my SALARY.