206 replies to this topic

[ducky]

Is there something more restrictive in the Texas voter ID law than the ones that were upheld in Indiana and Georgia?

[cw68]

Is there something more restrictive in the Texas voter ID law than the ones that were upheld in Indiana and Georgia?

Yes, it was very restrictive. The judges said that there were "stark differences" between the Texas law and the Georgia law.

IMO, voter registration laws are being introduced by Republicans to get results like were seen in Florida until a judge struck the law down.


http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2012-08-27/story/democratic-registration-all-dries-new-florida-laws

[ducky]

Yes, it was very restrictive. The judges said that there were "stark differences" between the Texas law and the Georgia law.

IMO, voter registration laws are being introduced by Republicans to get results like were seen in Florida until a judge struck the law down.


http://jacksonville.com/news/florida/2012-08-27/story/democratic-registration-all-dries-new-florida-laws

That story relates to registration laws, not voter ID. I certainly don't think people who aren't registered should be able to vote. I don't see how requiring registration drives to turn in registration forms in 48 hours was "impossible." The Republicans were able to register somehow. I'd like to see if it had any effect on other parties like Independents, Green, etc.

[cw68]

There is another way to look at this. Perhaps Democratic voter registrations have decreased because many who are here illegally have stopped trying to register, knowing they might get caught. I see this as a good thing.

Although many of you will say it’s because the law has made it so difficult to register, Democratic registration is down, but why is Republican registration not appeared to lessen, as well?

It doesn’t make sense that one party would have fewer registrations and not the other party as well.

Unless, those who were voting illegally before, thought it was time to quit, or because after that law was passed, just didn’t think it worth the effort?

The fear of hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants voting. Wow. Nope. It's because voter registration groups more often target areas that lean Democratic.

Groups said the new rules made it impossible to comply. As a result, many got out of the registration game until a federal judge ruled in their favor at the end of May, 11 months later.

“It has without a doubt hurt registration numbers,” said Deirdre Macnab, president of the nonpartisan League of Women Voters of Florida. “It really gummed up the works and made it harder for Floridians to get registered.”


Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville....s#ixzz254h3olM7

[cw68]

It’s my personal opinion that your arguments are very weak. I have a right to voice my opinion. I’m not taking a shot at you, but pointing out that I disagree with you because I feel your arguments are weak and lack substance.

The fact that a court agrees with some of your feelings does not make the court right. If all courts were the last word, we’d really be in trouble. I’m sure many disagree with some of the laws passed by our courts.

What a court decision means, is that for the time being, we go by that law they passed, until times change, or an appeal takes place.

So, to say you are right because of a court backing your point of view, and that it’s evidence of your position being a correct one, is also not going to hold water.

Just my opinion, and I have a right to it.

Yes, you do have a right to it.

I never said I was right because of a court backing my point of view. I said the courts have been upholding my arguments.

The Voter Rights Act of 1965 was a landmark piece that outlawed discriminatory voting practices. It specifically prohibits "voting qualification or prerequisite to voting, or standard, practice, or procedure ... to deny or abridge the right of any citizen of the United States to vote on account of race or color." Requiring IDs to vote, while based in terms of voter fraud, actually have their greatest impact by limiting participation of African Americans, Latinos, Asians and the young. This goes directly against the Voter Rights Act. The Texas law law imposed strict, unforgiving burdens on the poor, and note that racial minorities in Texas are more likely to live in poverty.

Where's the proof of voting fraud? Let's look at Wisconsin. A nonpartisan study on voter fraud in Wisconsin after the 2004 election found just seven ineligible votes—all of which were cast by ex-felons who were ineligible to vote despite being released from prison—out of 3 million ballots cast. SEVEN VOTES. After South Carolina Attorney General Alan Wilson said on Fox that they knew “we know for a fact there are deceased people whose identities are being used in elections in South Carolina.” a state investigation turned up zero evidence of fraud. ZERO. You may say that it's hard to catch, but I think that's a poor justification to strip millions of the right to vote.

Oh, but it's so easy to fraudulently vote so it must be happening, right? Voter fraud is a felony that carries a federal sentence of five years in prison and a $10,000 fine. That's why it doesn't happen. It doesn't make sense to steal an election one vote at a time with this risk. Just because something is easy doesn't mean it should be banned. I heard the argument that it's easy to dump a bucket of water on a policeman's head but it doesn't happen because people don't want to go to jail.

This issue is more about fears than facts. There is NO PROOF of widespread voter fraud, but a lot of people are worried about undocumented immigrants menacing our country. Because they are here they must also be voting illegally. If there's widespread voter fraud, let's confront it. But I think it's a shame that hundreds of thousands of American citizens may lose their right to vote because of fear, a fear of a "problem" that doesn't exist.

[old soldier]

its sorta hard to measure voter fraud. If you do it and get away with it, only you and the old vote count knows cause its not something most folks brag about. the lack of id requirment makes it easy for the faud voter to vote more than once. In fact there is no limit as to how many times a person votes long as they don't go back to the same place to vote. you wonder what kind of person can go through life without an id, and how many without the old ID would bother to get one if they were made available like they are here in california.

you kinda wonder if a person can get on welfare without any ID. Heck if a person can figure out how to vote a few times, they might also be able to get welfare for the made up people they were when they voted.

[cw68]

To make this more fair and balanced, I’ve taken another statement from the article you supplied.

“Proponents argued the rules were needed to root out voter fraud."

“Increasing the accountability of those who collect voter registrations helps protect the rights of new voter registrants,” said Secretary of State Ken Detzner, even though local election officials say that hasn’t been a problem.”

Read more at Jacksonville.com: http://jacksonville....s#ixzz254l9UNJq

Notice: "even though local election officials say that hasn’t been a problem.”

Who are these local election officials?

My quote wasn't aimed at making anything unfair or unbalanced. I was addressing a specific concern of yours.

My best guess is these local election officials are Floridians.

[cw68]

That story relates to registration laws, not voter ID. I certainly don't think people who aren't registered should be able to vote. I don't see how requiring registration drives to turn in registration forms in 48 hours was "impossible." The Republicans were able to register somehow. I'd like to see if it had any effect on other parties like Independents, Green, etc.

Right, voter registration IS separate from voter IDs.

It wasn't that Democrats couldn't register, it was third-party registration groups that couldn't comply and the large majority of these targeted Democratic leaning areas. This article better explains the provisions and their impact. http://www.bradenton...ize-ruling.html

[cw68]

Oh, now we don't need facts? It's about fear? Prove hundreds of thousands won't be able to vote becasue of ID voter laws. The burden is on you to prove that.

“Fear” of voting by millions of Americans? Now it’s the “FEAR” factor you are making your case on? I think that is a bit of a jump. I don’t think the average American will be fearing voting in the future, because of voter ID laws. That’s just silly!

There is no wide spread home invasions in my neighborhood, but I look out my peek hole on my door before, I open it. And I still lock my doors and windows and set my house alarm before I go to bed at night. I guess I’m just being paranoid to do these things. Yes, I do them out of fear. Shame on me.

I am very concerned with future illegal voting, so I feel it’s wise to start dealing with it right now, not after an election has been throw because of it, resulting in billions having to be spent for another election and everybody have to vote again.

As another poster pointed out, having an ID is pretty normal in this day and age. It’s not an impossible thing to obtain. Unless you live in the back woods of West Virginia and never go out into the civilized world and don’t own a car. And then, who’s fault is that? Mine???

I guess you just don’t get the idea that some people, living here legal or illegally, don’t care to deal with the trouble of voting....no matter how simple we make it. And then there are others who will organize buses to pick up people and take them to the voting places, without a care that they may not be illegally entitled to vote. It happened in the last election. It was thought that those people were being told they would get paid to vote! Don’t know if that was true, but I believe it could happen.

I want to ensure we have legal elections and don’t get caught with our pants down dealing with fraudulent voting, after the fact. And, I can’t for the life of me understand why it is so important that we be concerned about the few people who, due to their own choices, have a difficult time getting to the voting places.
Geeeez!

It seems like a desparate attempt to change people's mind about something as basic as a drivers license requirement.

You blow me away!!!

You completely misunderstood the fear and facts. Yes, we need facts. There are no facts to back up claims of widespread voter fraud. The fear I'm talking about isn't the fear of voting, it's the fear of illegals and fears of them voting.

There are more than a few people who have a difficult time and it's not just the back woods of West Virginia. Your "normal" is not "normal" for many.

You simply do not understand the Voter Rights Act and how important it is. That is the law.

Facts on the hundreds of thousands? Sure. How about 700,000 in Pennsylvania alone?

"The bill would require all voters in Pennsylvania to present a valid, unexpired government-issued photo identification card at the polls. Current federal law only requires voters to present identification when they vote for the first time in a new election precinct.

Under the legislation, voters who do not have photo ID - seniors who no longer drive, low-income residents who use public transportation, disabled seniors and veterans, and students - would have to go through the time and expense of obtaining photo ID, or would have to vote provisionally at the polling place, then make a trip to the county courthouse to confirm their identity."

According to the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation, nearly 700,000 Pennsylvanians lack photo ID, half of them seniors.