117 replies to this topic

[Steve Heard]

Glad I stumbled onto this topic.

One comment: 

This law is a TOOL for law enforcement.

It is common in many jurisdictions.  Folsom was the exception.

I want to thank every single FPD officer on the beat who could
not adequately protect us without this tool.

I also want to thank every FPD officer for being so diligent and  supportive to me and my neighbors -- near several parks ---    on a regular basis.

I have lived around here for lots of years, and I had only one
minor issue with an FPD employee -- (I mean, one who was out on the streets
doing their oftentimes thankless job.)

Congratulations on this ordinance.  I saw first hand  how much  you needed this tool.
I know Folsom was the place for public drinkers  to be -  because you did not have this tool.

I wish to say:                      Thanks FPD BEAT  OFFICERS!!!

Be safe out there.

I've read several posts about Folsom's reputation as a place where one could drink in public. I've never seen it or heard it anywhere else.

I've been visiting Folsom since 1990, and living here since 2001, and I always thought that it had the reputation of being a conservative community which frowned on nearly every perceived vice.

Everything in this town is tame and plain. Even the bands at the concerts in the park seem carefully selected so as not to utter anything that anyone might think twice about.

Friends and relatives from other communities share the same viewpoint about Folsom, so I wonder where the notion that we've got a permissive environment comes from?

I'm not complaining about Folsom. I love it here. I must be hanging with the wrong crowd.

[maestro]

Your reply stuns me.

The problems are so obvious in the streets and parks.

I just have to wonder how anyone who thinks they know this city
could miss the problems.

We have a neighborhood watch that patrols our streets, alleys, and the parks.
One volunteer used to take a large bag and pick up the needles, alcohol bottles, used condoms, spent paintballs, rusty broken knives, --- you name it.

My neighbor who backs up to a large park told me yesterday at the Easter Egg hunt that she has heard gun fire lately.

I have seen the unwashed (and young washed) drinking in the parks -- repeatedly. I've seen the graffiti of one group warning other groups to stay off "their turf."


Perhaps some people actually see and record more of their surroundings than others. You know, once burned, thrice learned.

Perhaps other people are so focused on their task list, that they miss a lot of their surroundings.

My point is Police beat officers see it all --- I'd give them every single necessary crime fighting tool.

AND I WOULD NEVER WORRY THESE DEDICATED OFFICERS WOULD GO INTO A NEIGHBORHOOD AND MISUSE SUCH A LAW AGAINST LAW-ABIDING PEOPLE.

I'm out on the streets, parks, byways. We need to support these officers.

Amen.

[Robert_17]

Having read all of the posting in this forum I began to wonder if it would be appropriate for the City Council to ban the sale of Alchohol entirely unless the purchaser had a permit to drink the beverage at home, the same with Cigarettes. Both of these permits would control the sale of these items and would bring considerable revenue in to the community.

Just kidding, but I am sure that the possibility of increased revenue was not far from the minds of our civic leaders.

Bob

[bishmasterb]

AND I WOULD NEVER WORRY THESE DEDICATED OFFICERS WOULD GO INTO A NEIGHBORHOOD AND MISUSE SUCH A LAW AGAINST LAW-ABIDING PEOPLE.

The problem with laws like this is that they turn law abiding people into criminals.

[old soldier]

two things happen out of this....its going to be harder for good folks to have a picnic in the park dwhere they would like to have a beer or two...going to take some time and driving...

second its going to cost some money...the paper said between 5 and 25 dollars, I'd bet on the 25

the good is some old homeless drunk is going to get busted for having a bottle in the park....and one of our policeman is going to have to drive downtown to take the person to jail burning up time and gasoline..and then the county is going to feed him for a couple of days

and if you can belive folks, when the light rail comes its going to be full of homless folks...maybee when light rail comes the police can meet each train and ask "what is your purpose for visiting Folsom

but then again I like to do my drinking on a bar stool in old town....when you get old you have to sort out things that make you real mad....this here situation is just a little sad and a little funny

[Steve Heard]

I understand that Folsom was the only municipality out of the 22 in the SACOG region that did not require a permit to drink or servce alcohol in public parks.

There is a similar ban at both Folsom Lake and Lake Natoma.

I lived in Foster City for 8 years, and they had a similar ordinance. I never had an issue with it.

I don't know about how much enforcement will go on. It's illegal for teens to drink, and they get drunk and stoned in the parks all the time.

[maestro]

I understand that Folsom was the only municipality out of the 22 in the SACOG region that did not require a permit to drink or servce alcohol in public parks.


I don't know about how much enforcement will go on. It's illegal for teens to drink, and they get drunk and stoned in the parks all the time.

Stevethedad,

If we judged the appropriateness of a law by the level to which an agency could enforce it, then there would be no speed limits in the U. S.

Kidding aside,
I feel like the only person who talks with FPD beat officers. They need this tool; Folsom was backwards in not giving it to them.

I feel like the lone ranger -- supporting these officers out on the beats day and night. I know their job will be much worse when light rail arrives. Police officers in other downtown jurisdictions have told me they have already purchased light rail tickets to hand out to their problem persons -- they will give them tickets to ride to Folsom and enjoy Lake Natoma, the state parks, and those pretty parks.

I suspect people named Robert will minimize all the up-coming problems, but they are as factual as the fact that Loaves and Fishes are served by light rail at the other end. I feel sorry for the homeless. I know it will become an increasing problem in this jurisdiction. I hope it is addressed.

But my point is, I wish to support the beat officers who deal with all these various outlooks, issues and problems -- drugs, alcohol, substance abuse are problems we expect them to handle for us.

BTW, thanks for pointing out how Folsom was behind all the other cities. We need more facts.

[Steve Heard]

Kidding aside, I feel like the only person who talks with FPD beat officers.  They need this tool;  Folsom was backwards in not giving it to them.

I feel like the lone ranger -- supporting these officers out on the beats day and night.  I know their job will be much worse when light rail arrives.  Police officers in other downtown jurisdictions have told me they have already purchased light rail tickets to hand out to their problem persons -- they will give them tickets to ride to Folsom and enjoy Lake Natoma, the state parks, and those pretty parks.

I suspect people named Robert will minimize all the up-coming problems, but they are as factual as the fact that Loaves and Fishes are served by light rail at the other end.  I feel sorry for the homeless.  I know it will become an increasing problem in this jurisdiction.  I hope it is addressed.

But my point is, I wish to support the beat officers who deal with all these various outlooks, issues and problems -- drugs, alcohol, substance abuse are problems we expect them to handle for us.

BTW, thanks for pointing out how Folsom was behind all the other cities.  We need more facts.

Maestro

I am one of the organizers of the Folsom Healthy Families Forums, addressing the issue of drug and alcohol abuse among Folsom kids, and there is a a lot of it.

I know quite a few Folsom police officers and I also happen to work for the mayor's mortgage company.

I fully support the police here, and expect them to do their jobs.

I am not opposed to the alcohol ban.

I have never heard of the kinds of things you are claiming here. Gunfire? Instead of reporting it to you, that parent should have reported it to the police! Yes, there are people who drink, have sex, and trash our parks. It is not, IMO, to the extent that you may think.

As for the cops buying tickets to Folsom. They are not on sale yet, and there are plenty of parks and an existing end of the line. Why haven't they sent them to Rancho? Why would they send them to Folsom? Does SAC PD have something against Folsom? Don't some of the Sac cops live here in Folsom?

Bottom line is that the ordinance is here and it makes sense. I think most of those who opposed it did so on the grounds that it seems like more erosion of our freedom.

[ducky]

Maestro

I am one of the organizers of the Folsom Healthy Families Forums, addressing the issue of drug and alcohol abuse among Folsom kids, and there is a a lot of it.

I know quite a few Folsom police officers and I also happen to work for the mayor's mortgage company.

I fully support the police here, and expect them to do their jobs.

I am not opposed to the alcohol ban.

I have never heard of the kinds of things you are claiming here. Gunfire? Instead of reporting it to you, that parent should have reported it to the police! Yes, there are people who drink, have sex, and trash our parks. It is not, IMO, to the extent that you may think.

As for the cops buying tickets to Folsom. They are not on sale yet, and there are plenty of parks and an existing end of the line. Why haven't they sent them to Rancho? Why would they send them to Folsom? Does SAC PD have something against Folsom? Don't some of the Sac cops live here in Folsom?

Bottom line is that the ordinance is here and it makes sense. I think most of those who opposed it did so on the grounds that it seems like more erosion of our freedom.

Thank you Stevethedad for summarizing why some oppose this ban and thank you for not jumping on the city propaganda bandwagon and characterizing anyone who may oppose this ordinance as a drunken wacko.

Of course we all support our local PD. I am always thankful that they are so responsive. I have never once had the local PD say they were too busy to come take a report even on the most trivial of matters unlike other municipalities. If I thought for one minute this ordinance would stop the litter and other incidents maestro lists I would reconsider. Do these other cities that we are supposedly so far behind not have the problems of teenage drinking, litter, transients, et cetera?

I understand the need for seat belt laws. People are actually getting hurt if they don't abide by these laws. If I crack open a beer at a picnic in a public park I am not hurting anyone. Now, if I get sloppy drunk in public, we already have laws for that sort of thing. You hit the nail on the head about the erosion of freedom concern. I hate to think of the young people fighting for our freedom overseas while we are back at home legislating them away.

[Terry]

the good is some old homeless drunk is going to get busted for having a bottle in the park....and one of our policeman is going to have to drive downtown to take the person to jail burning up time and gasoline..and then the county is going to feed him for a couple of days

Not true. A violation of this ordinance is treated as an infraction, so a ticket is written for the individual to deal with. No trips to Sac county jail unless of course the individual has an outstanding warrant(s) or commits some other offense along with the ordinance violation.

[maestro]

Maestro

I am one of the organizers of the Folsom Healthy Families Forums, addressing the issue of drug and alcohol abuse among Folsom kids, and there is a a lot of it.

I know quite a few Folsom police officers and I also happen to work for the mayor's mortgage company.

I fully support the police here, and expect them to do their jobs.

I am not opposed to the alcohol ban.

I have never heard of the kinds of things you are claiming here. Gunfire? Instead of reporting it to you, that parent should have reported it to the police! Yes, there are people who drink, have sex, and trash our parks. It is not, IMO, to the extent that you may think.

As for the cops buying tickets to Folsom. They are not on sale yet, and there are plenty of parks and an existing end of the line. Why haven't they sent them to Rancho? Why would they send them to Folsom? Does SAC PD have something against Folsom? Don't some of the Sac cops live here in Folsom?

Bottom line is that the ordinance is here and it makes sense. I think most of those who opposed it did so on the grounds that it seems like more erosion of our freedom.

stevethedad/employee of folsom mayor

Am I supposed to be intimidated by your employer? Why mention it?

Do you suppose you and your employer have 100% knowledge of what is going on in city?

Why do you assume our neighborhood concerns were not reported to police?

In fact, we have conveyed certain local concerns directly to your boss -- and we are still waiting for a response.




Moreover, upon reflection, your post makes me very nervous that perhaps the mayor is sharing with his employees --- city information that he should not be sharing.


PS you are mistaken about light rail tickets. anyone can buy current passes, and later purchase necessary additional increments to enable persons to get to scenic Folsom with its many opportunities for camping out in scenic beauty.

[old soldier]

Hey Terry

thanks for the correction about our police not having to take the homeless drunk down to the jail on city time and gasoline...it bothers me thought just what an old homeless drunk is going to do with his citation cause if he had any money he wouldn't be homeless.

seems like the only one with money is going to be the guy on a picnic with his family having a few beers and fogot to get his permit.

what I see happening is these homless folks drinking a beer at t time so that if they get busted they just loose a beer. what I hope doesn't happen is they start hiding their beers in the bushes and forget about them....next thing we'll be having is a big stink about kids finding beers on the easter egg hunt.

whats done is done, wonder when the first permits are going to come out...will they be different ones like a six pack permit and a two case permit?

got to be old EDF doesn't drink beer in his driveway cause he doesn't seem to be too riled up on this issue

[Steve Heard]

stevethedad/employee of folsom mayor

Am I supposed to be intimidated by your employer?  Why mention it?

Do you suppose you and your employer have 100% knowledge of what is going on in city?

Why do you assume our neighborhood concerns were not reported to police?

In fact, we have conveyed certain local concerns directly to your boss --  and we are still waiting for a response.
Moreover, upon reflection, your post makes me very nervous that perhaps the mayor is sharing with his employees --- city information that he should not be sharing. 
PS  you are mistaken about light rail tickets.  anyone can buy current passes, and later purchase necessary additional increments to enable persons to get to scenic Folsom with its many opportunities for camping out in scenic beauty.

Maestro

I don't know how my position should inimidate anyone. Most of the regulars here already know who I am, where I work, and my dedication to causes in this community.

I mention it to you because I want you to understand that I see and talk to the guy every day. He NEVER brings up city issues that do not concern us, but he is ALWAYS willing to talk and to listen. I am happy and proud to work with him.

The issue of kids drinking in the parks, or anywhere in town, is an important issue which I have discussed with him many times. We also discuss the problems of safety, traffic and homelessness. No top-secret discussions, just talking about issues and events.

No, he doesn't have 100% knowledge of everything that happens in town, nor do you or I, or any single person. He does, however, lead this city, and is help up to blame and ridicule for every thing from the homeless, barking dogs, and the closing of Dam Road.

He does have the ear of the Chief of Police, and knows just about every cop in town.

You may believe that the Sac cops are spending their money on light rail tickets for shipping homeless to Folsom, but I don't.

It makes no sense at all. If the solution to Sac's homeless situation is to ship them out of town, why wait until Folsom stations open? They can send them to Rancho right now, and they can blend in with the homeless and street people who are already there.

Yes, homelessness is a growing problem. Yes, drinking in the park can be a problem. Yes, the people of Folsom love and support our police force.

[ducky]

stevethedad/employee of folsom mayor

Am I supposed to be intimidated by your employer?  Why mention it?

Do you suppose you and your employer have 100% knowledge of what is going on in city?

Why do you assume our neighborhood concerns were not reported to police?

In fact, we have conveyed certain local concerns directly to your boss --  and we are still waiting for a response.
Moreover, upon reflection, your post makes me very nervous that perhaps the mayor is sharing with his employees --- city information that he should not be sharing. 
PS  you are mistaken about light rail tickets.  anyone can buy current passes, and later purchase necessary additional increments to enable persons to get to scenic Folsom with its many opportunities for camping out in scenic beauty.

Why so hard on stevethedad, maestro? He supports the ban. I don't think mentioning the mayor is his employer was meant as intimidation at all. If he didn't would you accuse him of hiding that fact? Lord knows I'm no fan of the mayor, but I don't think there's any funny business with information being shared.

Maestro, you are to be commended for caring about our trails, waterways, and community as a whole, but I don't think this ban is going to be the cure-all it is made out to be.

[mylo]

Bottom line is that the ordinance is here and it makes sense. I think most of those who opposed it did so on the grounds that it seems like more erosion of our freedom.

Don't you read this forum, ordinances aren't enforced here!