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Folsom Crossing Closed Till Mid Morning Sat


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#76 ducky

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 08:34 AM

Way to much blame being put on the road design here in my opinion. While it may not be the safest the fact of the matter (please correct me if I am wrong) is this guy in the SUV is local and has more than likely traveled this stretch of road on more than one ocassion. Should have been no surprise a curve was coming...

Also way to much blame being put on the automobile itslelf. ANY modern car is capable of reaching 100MPH if the driver decides to push it to the limit. So whether it was a 500HP monster or a 150HP economy car really makes no difference. Either one in the hands of the wrong person making poor decisions will have the same outcome.


I have to agree. There are posted speed limits for a reason. You make a good point about newer cars. They ride so smooth now you can get speed up and not realize it if you're not paying attention. You also make a good point about that curve. Before the new bridge was put in, anybody remember the curves leading up to the Dam Road? It was much worse.

Until there is a way to curb human nature from making poor decisions or taking risks, there aren't enough cement dividers or properly cambered roads that will make zero percent chance of accidents as much as we wish that in instances like this. I saw it cited somewhere that 20,000 cars travel this road every day. I'll bet a good percentage of them squeak through just above the posted speed limit and still manage to stay in their lanes.

I have seen people getting tickets on Folsom Lake Crossing quite a few times. I think enforcement is an important way to get people to slow down. Those trailers showing your speed seem to help, too.

#77 tony

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:02 AM

i wold put some speed bumps on those roads that get all the speeding...would also help the economy cause it would save gas

Good luck with that. The city would not install speed humps in an alley in the HD because of concerns about emergency response time and maintenance of garbage trucks. Almost every local agency in the region has an active traffic calming program. Not Folsom. We have one on the books, but almost every effort to use it gets trumped by public safety (and/or solid waste). Am I the only one who sees the irony?

#78 tony

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:11 AM

I'm no traffic expert, but from working with the City on 'Slow Down Folsom' and attending planning sessions for the Sutter Street revitalization, and from the comments made on the forum here, when discussing the issue, we usually get:

* we need barriers
* we can't afford barriers and they're ugly
* we need speed bumps
* speed bumps cause more wear and tear on cars and causes pollution and slows emergency vehicles
* we need lower speed limits
* we don't need lower speed limits, we need people to follow the speed limits
* people aren't going to drive slower, we need more traffic cops
* we can't afford more traffic cops
* hey! I see cops hiding looking to bust some poor guy who went over the speed limit while they let criminals go free!

barriers, speed bumps, lower limits, wider streets, narrower streets, lights, stops signs, speed bumps, enforcement or lack thereof, is there a solution which would please everyone?

You forgot red light cameras...but you're right. One reason traffic calming is not done in Folsom is because our elected leaders get lots of complaints about traffic being too slow, generally from those commuting through neighborhoods, especially the few times (like the Scott-Sutter-Coloma closure) where the city did do some (necessary but draconian) traffic calming. If more people complained about unsafe conditions and inadequate enforcement, perhaps that would turn the tide.

Finally, regarding Steve's last example, exactly what kind of criminals are we letting go free who are worse than the motorists out their killing random, innocent people -- at least six so far this year in Folsom?!

#79 tony

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:31 AM

So, how do we get this going? It's completely ridiculous that this road has no center divider and such poor lighting for a road that has essentially become a freeway!

Well, it's not much, but you could start by requesting that the Folsom Traffic Safety Committee -- whose meetings are regularly cancelled for lack of agenda items -- take up the issue of...traffic safety on our roads. The next scheduled meeting (with no agenda that I'm aware of) is next Thursday.

That said, the dangers of driving in suburban locals such as Folsom should be no surprise. There was a study a few years back that found that, with respect to risk of injury and unnatural death (accidental or due to crime), urban areas with relatively higher crime rates were safer than suburban areas with very low crime rates because, even in "rough" neighborhoods, the risk of death or injury due to crime is very low (as is the risk of driving because of slower speed roads) compared to the risk of death or injury due to traffic crashes on the higher speed suburban roads. Or, closer to home, compare Folsom's murder rate to it's road collision fatality rate. Many of the most dangerous criminals are on the road, sometimes in very nice cars (not riding light rail). It's old and trite and still ever so true: speed kills, especially when you allow it on city streets (even ones that look rural).

#80 Folsom_Blues

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:42 AM

Look at the data, since 2007 Folsom has had nearly 900 collisions. The majority of the collisions were on East Bidwell, Folsom-Auburn and East Natoma. All of this is available on SWITRS GIS maps.

#81 JMB83

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:56 AM

Until there is a way to curb human nature from making poor decisions or taking risks, there aren't enough cement dividers or properly cambered roads that will make zero percent chance of accidents as much as we wish that in instances like this.

In another 20-30 years, this will be a reality for everyone: Self-driven cars a la Google...
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/25/tech/innovation/self-driving-car-california/index.html

#82 Carl G

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 11:56 AM

Look at the data, since 2007 Folsom has had nearly 900 collisions. The majority of the collisions were on East Bidwell, Folsom-Auburn and East Natoma. All of this is available on SWITRS GIS maps.

Here is the picture:
Attached File  FolsomTrafficAccidents.jpg   25.42K   23 downloads

#83 Darth Lefty

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 01:39 PM

Look at the data, since 2007 Folsom has had nearly 900 collisions. The majority of the collisions were on East Bidwell, Folsom-Auburn and East Natoma. All of this is available on SWITRS GIS maps.

That number makes it sound like they're not all getting counted. It would be about one every other day. Surely fender benders are more common than that. Is this injury accidents?
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#84 maestro

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 03:59 PM

Wow.....! I was not aware of any of this. Thanks for the information. When I first saw that road it seemed illogical that it did not have a divider. It's just common sense to put one there if new construction and as wide as it is... Plenty of room and not that more costly. Regards


Chris,

I have much more information which I obtained directly from the last City Engineer Bob Blaser, who was a dear friend who died much too young.

In the mid to late 1980's Bob was very upset when the mayor decided that high speed limits should be posted at all the entering roads to the city. This same mayor got the Lake Natoma bridge built, destroying old Folsom, when the decades old plan was for the Oak Avenue Bridge. The land for the OA bridge and right of way is still vacant to this day. Bob said there was a fluke in CA law that allowed the posting of 55mph by cities, at their discretion. Bob strongly objected to this, but lost to the politician. The 55 mph signs are still in place.

Bob always did "Engineered Studies for Speed" signage on a regular basis. Like other cities do, if there were accidents, the limits could be lowered. The mayor said no.

If you did a Public Records Request for the Engineered STudies, you would probably be told there were none such anymore. I kept the old ones because they show the thoroughness of Bob's work, and his efforts to protect us.

He also had problems with many other engineering decisions made by non-engineers. He refused to put his license, signature and seal on some of the documents laid in front of him. He was the city's last City Engineer.
Before his contract was over, Bob was not Public Works Director. His clerical assistant was made PW Director, and he made outrageous, improper decisions which haunt us to this day. He sent the sewer workers home from that major raw sewage spill. That is why raw sewage spilled into the river for about three days. 750,000 gallons of raw sewage got the city a minimum fine of $750,000.

Now, Public Works Department is rolled into Development Dept., and not headed by an engineer, but a guy with a Bachelor of Arts in something other than engineering.

Engineers are trained to protect us. They are licensed to ensure their legal compliance and competence. If you don't like something a licensed engineer does, you can file a complaint against their license and there is a judgment by peers.

The deaths will never stop as long as there absolulutely NO BARRIERS between opposing traffic on high-speed pavements.

Face it, proper roadway improvements cost money. Safety costs more money than growth and development without any consideration for the human lives lost.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Agreed, Accidents will ALWAYS happen. BUT

The barriers which prevent DEATHs must be used or the accidents will be devastating. With a proper median, landscaping and barriers, it is quite conceivable that good samaritan designated driver would be alive today to enjoy his family, his career, and his future.

If you cannot visualize this, look at the difference between Roseville's streets and Folsoms.
Speed limits are lower. Medians are landscaped with energy-absorbing large trees and bushes. Police are more evident - using radar. Cutting city services is another political decision which smells baaaadddd.

Did you read the report: the accident occurred when a vehicle 'crossed the double yellow lines'. There was no MEDIAN. The accident occurred BUT the result did not have to be so brually terrible for an innocent driver who was the designated driver.

#85 Rmulligan

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 05:47 PM

To the post regarding contributions. That is such a sweet thought. I have not spoken with the mom of baby Steven regarding a trust fund. I can say the church that Steven and Alyssa were married in was Sacred Heart at the corner of 39th and J Street. This is where the funeral will be held. I am sure if the contribution were made to baby Steven the church would make sure it made to his mother. Nothing will bring back a Dad but helping baby Steven financially will help. Thank you for asking.

#86 (The Dude)

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:31 PM

Bless you Maestro for bringing the TRUTH to Folsom!

#87 supermom

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:36 PM

Well, it's not much, but you could start by requesting that the Folsom Traffic Safety Committee -- whose meetings are regularly cancelled for lack of agenda items -- take up the issue of...traffic safety on our roads. The next scheduled meeting (with no agenda that I'm aware of) is next Thursday.


lol

#88 supermom

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 06:56 PM

I love driving fast. I love listening to the engine at high speeds. I love the feel of the steering wheel in my hands as my wheels feel like they are gliding over the earth rather than rolling, at high speeds. I love the funny feeling you get as your eyes constantly adjust to forward and direct and side vision, and the earth slips past you so fast there is a gray outline in farthest point of you peripheral vision.

I love driving fast. But I also know that there are certain conditions roadways must meet the criteria according to state law, for high speeds to be allowed. And other factors come into play when high speed is acceptable. Like the time of day, natural light, visual distance, dampness of roadway, elbow room, etc..

I also believe that barriers may save lives by limiting the extent of collateral lethality, but that may not always be the case. I think that the best way to manage some roads, is to treat them like inner city expressways. They should be built, banked, striped, labelled, signage, and policed as such. I also think that when you have inner city expressways, there should be automatic electronic radar, camera and electronic ticketing at every exit.


Hit the pocket. Because $ is most often the only solution to the reason people will slow down.

ps, I love hitting 55 as I approach the onramp leaving town. And I sure as heck love 55 on the Dam Road. How else can I get that brief rush in an otherwise mundane Folsom day?

#89 MikeinFolsom

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 07:44 PM

Sad thing about the public works and the engineer deal is it sounds like the same guys are making decisions on what's best for police and fire in the city too. One of these days............paper tiger.

#90 Tulum Lover

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 09:43 PM

I love driving fast. I love listening to the engine at high speeds. I love the feel of the steering wheel in my hands as my wheels feel like they are gliding over the earth rather than rolling, at high speeds. I love the funny feeling you get as your eyes constantly adjust to forward and direct and side vision, and the earth slips past you so fast there is a gray outline in farthest point of you peripheral vision.

I love driving fast. But I also know that there are certain conditions roadways must meet the criteria according to state law, for high speeds to be allowed. And other factors come into play when high speed is acceptable. Like the time of day, natural light, visual distance, dampness of roadway, elbow room, etc..

I also believe that barriers may save lives by limiting the extent of collateral lethality, but that may not always be the case. I think that the best way to manage some roads, is to treat them like inner city expressways. They should be built, banked, striped, labelled, signage, and policed as such. I also think that when you have inner city expressways, there should be automatic electronic radar, camera and electronic ticketing at every exit.


Hit the pocket. Because $ is most often the only solution to the reason people will slow down.

ps, I love hitting 55 as I approach the onramp leaving town. And I sure as heck love 55 on the Dam Road. How else can I get that brief rush in an otherwise mundane Folsom day?


Your comments never cease to amaze me!!!

By the way ~ that is not meant to be a compliment!!!




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