132 replies to this topic

[Rich_T]

Gee, I check in to Folsom Forum after all this time, and you guys are still going hard at it - congrats.  It seems that one person (Folsom Trails) is convinced that Mr. Rowe is "a racist pig", and FT will never be swayed from that position.  What's the use in responding to something like that?

 

In truth, probably no one actually took offense at this flag lesson, in all the years it was given.  After all, it was a lesson about the Civil War.  It seems to me that one or more die-hards smelled blood, and took it upon themselves to act offended on behalf of others, who themselves take no offfense.

 

I just hope that incidents like this will soon diminish, as pragmatism takes over from madness and fear.  Then a school board could say "There is nothing to see here, folks, move on."  Instead, as I noted in the SacBee article, they were spewing all the usual unattractive PC phrases of which most people have long since tired.

 

As always, BCF has had many intelligent comments, among them:

 

"I am sad that FCUSD doesn't seem to be able to distinguish between BEING racist and TEACHING about racism. ..."

 

"We may never have all the facts about this angle of the story."  (was it a personal vendetta?)

[Who_Do_You_Trust]

Another thought on this - why didn't this teacher fight the school board?  the teacher's union would have probably supplied a lawyer and paid all legal expenses.  but the guy is 70 years old, certainly ready to retire.  this was an easy out for him.  He'll go home with a big fat pension, top-of-the-line medical insurance for life, and the satisfaction that he went out with a bang.  What could be better?  He's the envy of teachers everywhere.

[Rich_T]

 I am sorry but I side with the victims and their families.

 

Theoretical victims are not real.

[Rich_T]

Another thought on this - why didn't this teacher fight the school board?  the teacher's union would have probably supplied a lawyer and paid all legal expenses.  but the guy is 70 years old, certainly ready to retire.  this was an easy out for him.  He'll go home with a big fat pension, top-of-the-line medical insurance for life, and the satisfaction that he went out with a bang.  What could be better?  He's the envy of teachers everywhere.

 

I doubt he's the object of any envy, going out this way.  But yes, if he's 70 years old (has it been THAT long since my daughter was in his class?), then I guess he was probably going to retire after this year anyway, so it was an "easy way out" for all involved.  I bet he would have threatened to fight, and maybe the school board would have backed down, were he much younger.

[Rich_T]

......................................

Rich, I can say the same to those in support of said teacher. Whats the use in engaging with people who refuse to consider the feelings of the victims. I know you think they are theoretical but not so if you actually look at those against this teacher and his method of teaching. The rest of your post/rant reeked of Trumpism. We already know how unreasonable those people are. They take after their so called savior.  As I said earlier it's sad that the election aftermath has actually come to our fine city in a big way.

 

 

I am treating that response as unintended humor.  You keep on "doing you".

[bordercolliefan]

.....................................
Thanks to you BCF and right back at you. I respect your view and the way you present that view. In the past we both have said how much we have in common. So this time we disagree. No biggie, I appreciate your view and respect your passion on the teachers behalf. This country is severely divided so one can expect to bump heads on any chat board.

Thanks, Folsom Trails! We horse lovers have to stick together! Glad we could have a civil, though passionate, debate. :-)

[Rich_T]

Thanks, Folsom Trails! We horse lovers have to stick together! Glad we could have a civil, though passionate, debate. :-)

 

Always the diplomat.  Shows restraint.

[Carl G]

Gee, I check in to Folsom Forum after all this time, and you guys are still going hard at it - congrats. 

 

Rich - I'm enjoying this conversation.  Passion.  Opinions.  Perspective.

 

Racism is a difficult topic.  While I didn't vote for Obama, I had a big smile on my face the night of his first victory, not because of what he promised to do for the country, but rather because I hoped he would move the country forward in race relations.  In the middle of his presidency, I was rationalizing that, even though race relations seemed worse, it was because we were having the conversation and exposing raw nerves. With healing things would improve.  By the end of his presidency, I was disillusioned by the lost opportunity for progress, by the blatant politicization of difficult situations, and the jump to conclusions with little to no facts.

 

I think it is vital to continue these types of conversations.  Some may want to troll this, but I believe the insights here are helpful.

[Rich_T]

 

Rich - I'm enjoying this conversation.  Passion.  Opinions.  Perspective.

 

Racism is a difficult topic.  While I didn't vote for Obama, I had a big smile on my face the night of his first victory, not because of what he promised to do for the country, but rather because I hoped he would move the country forward in race relations.  In the middle of his presidency, I was rationalizing that, even though race relations seemed worse, it was because we were having the conversation and exposing raw nerves. With healing things would improve.  By the end of his presidency, I was disillusioned by the lost opportunity for progress, by the blatant politicization of difficult situations, and the jump to conclusions with little to no facts.

 

I think it is vital to continue these types of conversations.  Some may want to troll this, but I believe the insights here are helpful.

 

Conversations, yes.  Insults and ideological allegiance, not.   If having the former seems worth dealing with the latter, by all means have at it.

[Carl G]

 

Conversations, yes.  Insults and ideological allegiance, not.   If having the former seems worth dealing with the latter, by all means have at it.

 

But isn't that the lens some see things through?  I don't have to agree with their conclusion or how they arrived by it, but I still find it interesting, at least for important topics.  For most topics, I just don't care.

[SCA]

Some of you have questioned why the teacher didn't fight the school board. The only thing the school board did was accept the teacher's notice to retire. One of the things that makes this situation so difficult is that the line separating this from being a personnel issue (a responsibility of the Superintendent) versus a policy issue (a responsibility of the board) is blurred. Teachers are concerned, and understandably so, that this personnel issue will affect how and what they teach in their classrooms. As a school board member and parent of two students in the district I want teachers to be able to teach history as it happened, not the sugar coated version. I also want them to exercise good judgment. If a teacher wants to illustrate a point about the Bill of Rights and freedom of speech by burning an American flag, we would have a riot on our hands. He/she would probably understand that it's better to talk about burning the flag instead of actually burning it. While that may be an extreme example I think it helps make the point that there's a middle ground between the "it's history, get over it" mentality and the "don't mention anything that could possibly offend someone" mentality. If you have constructive feedback about the way these incidents were handled, I'm all ears.
Sarah Aquino
(916)798-5380
saquino@fcusd.org

[SCA]

I'm going to answer more generally than you would like because I can't comment on personnel issues. I think displaying both flags in the classroom for this type of lesson falls in the middle ground. (Let me include the standard disclaimer that this is my own opinion and I'm not speaking on behalf of the board.) One of the things I try to do is look at the situation from multiple perspectives - the teacher, the students, the principal, the superintendent, etc. Regardless of all the different opinions out there the fact is the board accepted the teacher's notice to retire.

[2 Aces]

Too bad the school board didn't have the guts to say, "no, we don't want you to retire if you don't WANT to retire". Gutless school board, IMO.