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City Manager Leaving


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#76 Robert Giacometti

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 01:18 PM

QUOTE(Kerri Howell @ Feb 7 2007, 12:21 PM) View Post
Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but didn't my post say if you have a question, ask me? Robert, did I inadvertently delete your email, did I not get your phone message, or are you simply bashing me AGAIN? Robert can we please simply agree to disagree - you quit bashing me and I will quit responding.

Kerri


I know you want to try and twist this into some sort of personal issue between us, so others here on the forum won't pay attention to your statements. Its simply an issue about what you said compared to what someone else claims based upon their experience. I'm just the messenger!

I simply brought your past post, forward where you claim, " the City of Folsom has alwasy been completely forthcoming about Martha's total compensation package-that can not be said about all of the other jurisdictions in the region".

Compare this to what d1rocket wrote, "can say with no hesitation that the time the studies were completed there were no other cities that came close to hiding compensation the way Folsom does."

Also consider d1rocket's statement of, "it is disturbing that counsel members have gone to great lengths to conceal compensation in such a sneaky way."

I sense what really irks you is that you know the staff at City hall share things with me, because they trust me in that I will NEVER expose them to the retribuitions some have experienced in the past. They know of the BS that has gone on these past years and some have said enough is enough, so they are willing to risk their necks to get the truth out. I know this irritates the hell out of you evidenced by all the name calling you have done towards me.

We citizens, deserve the truth! When you speak the truth I'll, support you 100%. When you do otherwise I'm going to question you & your colleagues every time!

Its not personal its about the truth!

#77 d1rocket

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 06:05 PM

QUOTE(Kerri Howell @ Feb 7 2007, 12:21 PM) View Post
Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but didn't my post say if you have a question, ask me? Robert, did I inadvertently delete your email, did I not get your phone message, or are you simply bashing me AGAIN? Robert can we please simply agree to disagree - you quit bashing me and I will quit responding.

Old Soldier always seems to know just what is likely to bring out Feisty Kerri!

Back to the actual subject, there is NO additional pay for the City Manager being aware of "confidential" information. I do not have a copy of the contract in front of me, but the vacation and leave time in Mr. Miller's contract is less than what was in Ms. Lofgren's contract, which was significantly less than what was in Mr. Frost's contract. The prior post was correct in that, I do not take phone calls from the City of Roseville relative to compensation packages. All of the information contained in the regional compensation package comparisons are done by a third party - not by the Council, not by the City Manager and not by City of Folsom Staff. They are done for numerous positons, including both represented and unrepresented employees (that means union and non-union). Mr. Miller's salary and benefits are public information - anybody out there who works in the private sector want to post their salary and benefits on this website? I didn't think so.

Kerri



#78 d1rocket

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Posted 07 February 2007 - 06:07 PM

Just so we are clear: Cities/Counties/Special Districts/ REGULARLY contact each other to verify compensation information. Third parties usually do the studies that are seen strewn about, however, the real exchange of data occurs between agencies.

If the City has done away with ‘confidential premiums’ and I know that you know what I am talking about – then I applaud them. The City was never forthcoming in terms of revealing this information whether it is to other agencies or independent consultants (Ralph Anderson etc…). However, top management did receive such premiums for quite some time – including Martha Lofgren, Steve Rudolph, Doug Udell and Mike Frost.

Once again if the City has made progress regarding vacation incentives then this is a big step in the right direction. It seems as though you remember Mike Frost’s vacation package, Mr. Udell had an identical provision in his contract. I.e., they both were accruing vacation at the same rate as highest tenured fire fighters in the City. They, as well as other management employees would regularly re-negotiate these contracts and as such were given a large bump of vacation time upon signing – all of which they were able to buy down to zero at any point.

Base pay is one thing – however, I have seen the W-2’s.

In the spirit of being open and honest it might be a good exercise to post these contracts in a public forum (Lofgren, Rudolph, Udell, Frost, current CM). I do not have an ax to grind with you, but I have seen the way the City operates in the past. I do believe that if the City is to maintain a level of trust with the taxpayers then transparency is key.

If you need to know where the contracts are stored I would be happy to point you in the right direction.


#79 Robert Giacometti

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Posted 10 February 2007 - 01:43 PM

QUOTE(d1rocket @ Feb 7 2007, 06:07 PM) View Post
Just so we are clear: Cities/Counties/Special Districts/ REGULARLY contact each other to verify compensation information. Third parties usually do the studies that are seen strewn about, however, the real exchange of data occurs between agencies.

If the City has done away with ‘confidential premiums’ and I know that you know what I am talking about – then I applaud them. The City was never forthcoming in terms of revealing this information whether it is to other agencies or independent consultants (Ralph Anderson etc…). However, top management did receive such premiums for quite some time – including Martha Lofgren, Steve Rudolph, Doug Udell and Mike Frost.

Once again if the City has made progress regarding vacation incentives then this is a big step in the right direction. It seems as though you remember Mike Frost’s vacation package, Mr. Udell had an identical provision in his contract. I.e., they both were accruing vacation at the same rate as highest tenured fire fighters in the City. They, as well as other management employees would regularly re-negotiate these contracts and as such were given a large bump of vacation time upon signing – all of which they were able to buy down to zero at any point.

Base pay is one thing – however, I have seen the W-2’s.

In the spirit of being open and honest it might be a good exercise to post these contracts in a public forum (Lofgren, Rudolph, Udell, Frost, current CM). I do not have an ax to grind with you, but I have seen the way the City operates in the past. I do believe that if the City is to maintain a level of trust with the taxpayers then transparency is key.

If you need to know where the contracts are stored I would be happy to point you in the right direction.


Your comments are right on, IMHO!

Anybody who knows anything at all of what has been happening these past years knows full well the cloak of secrecy and questionable deals that have transpired. Anyone who tries to ask questions gets castigated!

The Affordable Housing issue still affects us today....NO one has a true understanding of the huge far reaching affects this issue has had on our community all because leadership didn't have the will to make new development provide their share of affordable housing. Instead, existing neigborhoods are being forced to accept the share that new development should have provided!

The sale ( GIVEAWAY) of the land next to HS, without opening it up to all possible bidders is all linked to the Affordable Housing isssue.

The Firefighters & Library staff all tried to raise issues, but we the citizens collectively didn't assist them when they needed it most and we the citizens were going to be the beneficiaries of their efforts!

I see so many good activists, from both sides of the aisle here on the forum, it is extremely puzzling to me why more aren't up in arms about what has transpired?

#80 truth.com

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Posted 22 February 2007 - 08:39 PM

Bravo Robert, but most people here to not want to hear the truth. Because if they admit that you are right, then they must be wrong. The City of Folsom will spend, spend, spend to protect those in the top administrative positions here. This is true with the ex city manager, the fire chief, etc. Instead of doing what is right, they use our tax dollars to bury and cloud the issues. It seems that this will never change no matter how many posts are on here or what the Bee states. Keep up the good work because someday maybe, ethics will again be found in Folsom.

#81 old soldier

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Posted 23 February 2007 - 08:30 AM

glad to see this topic raring up again

if you want to get an insight on how folsom politics work go to blockbuster and get the movie catch me if you can..

these folks are going to keep this stuff up until somebody cares enough to catch them and for the most part probably because of the growth of the city nobody cares.

for most people Folsom is a place to live and shop until the next transfer comes in and the scams of yesteryear and today pass over everybodys head

#82 Robert Giacometti

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 10:42 AM

QUOTE(truth.com @ Feb 22 2007, 08:39 PM) View Post
Bravo Robert, but most people here to not want to hear the truth. Because if they admit that you are right, then they must be wrong. The City of Folsom will spend, spend, spend to protect those in the top administrative positions here. This is true with the ex city manager, the fire chief, etc. Instead of doing what is right, they use our tax dollars to bury and cloud the issues. It seems that this will never change no matter how many posts are on here or what the Bee states. Keep up the good work because someday maybe, ethics will again be found in Folsom.


Thanks for your supportive words!

It wasn't that long ago I was being accussed of doing this for political reasons...but I didn't run for city council. Then I was accussed of doing it for some sort of payback for a commision appointment...but NOBODY nominated me, so much for that theory!

I feel like Valerie Plames husband, who while questioning what we the citizens are being told by elected officials, then gets attacked as a result of asking questions.

The Firefighters were accused of expressing their concerns about leadership as being motivated to merge with another union. Yet, how come there has been NO movement to do this? How come there has been no acknowledgement of this by anyone at City Hall?

The Library Staff voiced concerns about the leadership at the library and were discounted as being malcontents. Yet, the new City Manager has brought in an experienced person to oversee the library. Why hasn't that been acknowledged, maybe it validates staff's previous concerns as being legitimate?

I don't mind being accussed on being on the side of those who ask questions to improve the quality of life.

#83 tessieca

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 01:18 PM

Kudos Robert for your healthy dose of government skepticism. You should never be attacked for asking questions. At least you don't attack first and then ask questions.
"Sometimes on purpose and sometimes by accident, teachers' unions have a long history of working against the interests of children in the name of job security for adults. And Democrats in particular have a history of facilitating this obstructionism in exchange for campaign donations and votes." . . .Amanda Ripley re "Waiting for Superman" movie.

#84 d1rocket

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 04:02 PM

QUOTE(Robert Giacometti @ Feb 10 2007, 01:43 PM) View Post
Your comments are right on, IMHO!

Anybody who knows anything at all of what has been happening these past years knows full well the cloak of secrecy and questionable deals that have transpired. Anyone who tries to ask questions gets castigated!

The Affordable Housing issue still affects us today....NO one has a true understanding of the huge far reaching affects this issue has had on our community all because leadership didn't have the will to make new development provide their share of affordable housing. Instead, existing neigborhoods are being forced to accept the share that new development should have provided!

The sale ( GIVEAWAY) of the land next to HS, without opening it up to all possible bidders is all linked to the Affordable Housing isssue.

The Firefighters & Library staff all tried to raise issues, but we the citizens collectively didn't assist them when they needed it most and we the citizens were going to be the beneficiaries of their efforts!

I see so many good activists, from both sides of the aisle here on the forum, it is extremely puzzling to me why more aren't up in arms about what has transpired?

The notion of government operating in an environment of transparency is one of the fundamental roots of being a taxpayer. There are times when it may be uncomfortable for those individuals working in the public sector to accept that compensation is being afforded by the community at large - but it is reality in its’ truest sense. The taxpayers drive the City of Folsom, not the other way around.

Kerri states “Mr. Miller’s salary and benefits are public information – anybody out there who works in the private sector want to post their salary and benefits on this website?”

This remark is problematic in a couple of regards:
First: We all have bosses, whether they be business owners or share holders. There is always somebody out there paying our salary. Compensation figures are widely known amongst shareholders and owners of the company – even if the shareholders or the owners are not directly involved in the day-to-day management of the company. The taxpayers of the City of Folsom are in fact the owners and share holders of the City. If council or employees are not comfortable with this then perhaps a move to private sector is in order.
Second: Neither Mr. Miller’s salary nor any of his predecessors compensation packages were ever truly public information. Yes, the City does release bits and pieces so as to appear to be compliant, but the whole picture is never released (see previous posts where this is covered in more depth). If the City was treating compensation as public information then any one on this post could contact the personnel department and request this information. Give it a shot and see how far you get.

Kerry’s response was telling in terms of what it did not disclose. Never did we hear about actual vacation accrual (“I do not have the contract in front of me”). Never did we hear about the bank of vacation time that Mr. Miller was afforded when he started. I.e., most high-level managers start with a bank of hours – many as high as 300 hours, which can be bought down to zero at any time. Never did we hear about admin time accrual (admin time is given to management employees in lieu of working overtime and works just like vacation time). Past City Manager’s generally accrued 80 – 120 hours per year of admin time. Never did we hear about the dollar amount the City pays toward health, dental, vision, life, ltd and deferred compensation.

And most importantly, never did we hear in any depth about the sins of past City Managers. The closest we came was: “Mr. Miller accrues vacation at a lower rate than Martha Lofgren and a much lower rate than Mike Frost.”

Hiding compensation was an art form with the City officials. It was not uncommon for top City officials to have W2 earnings that were often times 30-40% greater than the salaries reported to independent consultant. We all use to giggle a little when we would see the salary numbers posted in the paper. The feeling was always one of: ‘gosh if they only knew how much money we were really making we would all end up on Terminal Island.’

A past City Manager once described working at Folsom as “the wild west.” It is up to the taxpayers to press on this issue. Government must be accountable


#85 camay2327

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 05:06 PM

Wondering::::::

Does anyone else think it is time to end this item. I do. I think it was originally opened because of the other city manager leaving.

We now have a new city manager.

Could we open a new item on this???

Just wondering....
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#86 old soldier

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Posted 07 March 2007 - 05:48 PM

old 2327 has a point because this has become kind of a collection of sneaky city hall capers and tricks played on the people

we ought to come up with a new catch all for this kind of stuff....like peeking under the city hall rug....

#87 d1rocket

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Posted 08 March 2007 - 07:54 AM

QUOTE(camay2327 @ Mar 7 2007, 05:06 PM) View Post
Wondering::::::

Does anyone else think it is time to end this item. I do. I think it was originally opened because of the other city manager leaving.

We now have a new city manager.

Could we open a new item on this???

Just wondering....


Rules? This is the City of Folsom - there are no rules here.

#88 bobb

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 10:23 AM

They come they go.


The people stay.

#89 vjensen

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Posted 12 March 2007 - 06:00 PM

QUOTE(bobb @ Mar 12 2007, 10:23 AM) View Post
They come they go.
The people stay.



The People have to live with the consequences (or without the benefits) from decisions They make.

That's really the bottom line--fiscally and in terms of quality of life




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