192 replies to this topic

[watstein]

I was intervied for the this bee poll about 2 weeks ago. I have to say they were wanting yes or no not inbetween. Especially on both Q & R. I told the interviewer that my voting is based on current info and that since things aren't resolved it would be no on Q and R and that I would keep the kings. I wish that the county and city and maloofs hammer out the problems before people vote and if they do then I would be totally be voting yes but right now I could vote yes because of the problems.

[FiscalConservative]

The results of this poll should not be a surprise. When this "Tax the people to pay for an arena so the rich could have their sky boxes" proposal first surfaced, a majority of the people who I interact with on a daily basis as part of my business were against these Measures. These measures would even have given local Governments a blank check to spend on items that had not been identified ahead of time once the arena was paid for.

So .. it appears that c_vanderveen and other supporters of this arena idea will not have the public funding their personal entertainment facility and these folks will have to provide for their own entertainment like the rest of us who accept entertainment as our own personal responsibiltyand not the responsibility of the taxpayers!

[jafount]

The results of this poll should not be a surprise. When this "Tax the people to pay for an arena so the rich could have their sky boxes" proposal first surfaced, a majority of the people who I interact with on a daily basis as part of my business were against these Measures. These measures would even have given local Governments a blank check to spend on items that had not been identified ahead of time once the arena was paid for.

So .. it appears that c_vanderveen and other supporters of this arena idea will not have the public funding their personal entertainment facility and these folks will have to provide for their own entertainment like the rest of us who accept entertainment as our own personal responsibiltyand not the responsibility of the taxpayers!

Thanks to small time thinking myopic views that can't see the value to the region.

I'm not a big tax guy, but I sure can appreciaite it when I at least know exactly what my taxes are funding, rather than having them funnel into a great big pot, then doled out to God knows what. At least in this particular instance, I get to see a tangible brick and mortar thing as the result of the monies paid into the fund.

It boggles my mind that all of you fiscally conservative types care because this is an entertainment venue.

But hey...all it is is a "rich want their skybox and want everyone else to pay" tax. Yeah, thats it. Because everyone knows that other events that can offer some spritual healing, motivation, guidance, support, etc aren't part of what's offered at the indoor venue:

Women of Faith-support for women by women

The Revolve Tour-Keep your teen girls focused on healthy lives

Spiritual music to help one keep the faith

Not to mention more traditional entertainment :

WWE Smackdown

Trans Siberian Orchestra

Dixie Chicks

Guns and Roses

The Monster Jam Monster Truck Rally

Freestyle Motocross

Supernova Rockstar Tour

And so many other business, commerce and motivational presentations.

You people who are soley focused on the maloofs are so visciously short sighted it's laughable. Having a venue like this means so much more to a community than basketball, which is such a minute part of the overall equation.

The problem is, that so many of you people will look at that list above and dismiss it while saying, well I don't like any of those things so I don't care if we have them are not. Great. Now the other roughly 3 million people in the region have their family entertainment options yanked out from other them because the selfish ones act in a fashion analagous to some old fart yelling at kids for running on his front lawn.

You only care about YOU. You focus on the Kings, which is to focus on minutiae. You fail to see the greater good and how it may positively affect the region around you. You fail to see the ripple effect even having an entertainment venue of this nature or a pro-sports franchise has on the community, probably because you've never seen a childs face light up when they get to meet a pro sports player. Or the joy brought to a school and the hopes of children reborn because they see those folks coming to spend time with them giving them a lifelong positive memory. You're selfish and truly arrogant when you refuse to understand how far reaching something this simple can be.

What makes this most laughable, is that the most consistent editorial I read here has much to do with "rich owners" and "rich people". Pathetic. You're so insecure that you cast those dispersions in fits envy. I wonder how you'd feel knowing that residents of oak park or north highlands feel the same about you in your large new homes and clean quiet neighborhoods void of drug dealers and shootings? All things are relative. it's just sad to see a bunch of suburbanites tossing the "rich get richer" cards out there, when a venue like this offers so much more.

Of course, I'm a bad guy for pointing this out. All of the bay area transplants who now live in this region and enjoy their clean neighborhoods, high property values and relatively hassle free driving conditions are quick to now point out how things must be stopped and changed. I've got news for you. I lived in this regioin since the early 80's. I remember when there was no prarie city interchange. No Intel. No Broadstone. No empire ranch, Parkway,Briggs Ranch or Prarie Oaks. No natoma station or outlet stores. Rainbow bridge used to be the only way to get accross the river. if you wanted to see a movie, guess what? You drove to the century theaters at Greenback and Garfield. Or the U/A, Sunrise or Birdcage Cinemas on Greenback. Folsom Jr. High WAS the High School and riley street ended at east Bidwell. Back then the same short sighted idiots used to complain about new people coming. New people moving in. New traffic. High taxes. Expensive houses. Now so many folks that live here think they're entitled to the same "small town feel". Entitled to speak to no growth in the region. Now they THEY are here, things have to change!

Guess it's a good thing that so many of us who were here before you had the long term vision to see the benefits of growth, culture and entertainment. Too bad you Johhny Come-Lately's can't see it now and want those of us who lived without it before and remember how CRAPPY it was, to suffer without it again.

[FiscalConservative]

....

But hey...all it is is a "rich want their skybox and want everyone else to pay" tax. Yeah, thats it. Because everyone knows that other events that can offer some spritual healing, motivation, guidance, support, etc aren't part of what's offered at the indoor venue:

...

Well ... if the taxpayers approved these measures and the arena is built using our hard earned dollars .. (dollars that I would rather spend on roads, infrastructure; including the new dam bridge); under the terms of the initial discussions with the Maloofs the revenue from these venues that you mentioned will all go to the Maloofs! .. I'm glad that based on this poll, there is a majority of reasonable voters who can see through this give-away!

Why don't you pro-arena crowd save us all a lot of trouble and simply take out your checks books and write your checks directly to the Maloofs! What??? ... You won't do that??? Why??? Because you want the rest of us taxpayers to ... to provide for your entertainment.

[DrKoz23]

Why don't you pro-arena crowd save us all a lot of trouble and simply take out your checks books and write your checks directly to the Maloofs! What??? ... You won't do that??? Why??? Because you want the rest of us taxpayers to ... to provide for your entertainment.

I am leaning toward "no"... but your argument is rather poor. So... do you propose that everything in this country that is supported by tax dollars only be paid for by those who use it? We could go on and on about things each of us don't want to pay for with our tax dollars.

[jafount]

Well ... if the taxpayers approved these measures and the arena is built using our hard earned dollars .. (dollars that I would rather spend on roads, infrastructure; including the new dam bridge); under the terms of the initial discussions with the Maloofs the revenue from these venues that you mentioned will all go to the Maloofs! .. I'm glad that based on this poll, there is a majority of reasonable voters who can see through this give-away!

Why don't you pro-arena crowd save us all a lot of trouble and simply take out your checks books and write your checks directly to the Maloofs! What??? ... You won't do that??? Why??? Because you want the rest of us taxpayers to ... to provide for your entertainment.

Money for the new bridge is already allocated so....

Why don't you anti-arena newbies to the area go back to the Bay? You don't want to do that? Why??? Because you like what this region has to offer in terms of quality of life. Now you want to undo some of it!! You are CLUELESS as to how things were here 25 years ago. You have no idea how crappy it was to have to drive to the east bay to see some kind of a show or entertainment event. Now YOU wan't the region to suffer, because you don't want to pay anything to help support and improve it. ROADS and BRIDGES are nice but golly gee...all they really do is add to the urban sprawl and doesn't really add to the quality of the region.

[mylo]

Why don't you anti-arena newbies to the area go back to the Bay? You don't want to do that? Why??? Because you like what this region has to offer in terms of quality of life. Now you want to undo some of it!! You are CLUELESS as to how things were here 25 years ago. You have no idea how crappy it was to have to drive to the east bay to see some kind of a show or entertainment event. Now YOU wan't the region to suffer, because you don't want to pay anything to help support and improve it. ROADS and BRIDGES are nice but golly gee...all they really do is add to the urban sprawl and doesn't really add to the quality of the region.

Your positive tone inspires me to vote on these measures.

[jafount]

Your positive tone inspires me to vote on these measures.

Sorry Mylo. I was trying to toss the same use of "you and your" back in that post. I get frustrated when people who don't know me start telling me about me.

I don't think this initiative will pass because people look at it as nothing more than a subsidy for rich guys. Personally I think it's so much more than that, and offers quality of life to the entire region. It's about so much more than a basketball team and wealthy owners.

[Chad Vander Veen]

Well ... if the taxpayers approved these measures and the arena is built using our hard earned dollars .. (dollars that I would rather spend on roads, infrastructure; including the new dam bridge); under the terms of the initial discussions with the Maloofs the revenue from these venues that you mentioned will all go to the Maloofs! .. I'm glad that based on this poll, there is a majority of reasonable voters who can see through this give-away!

Why don't you pro-arena crowd save us all a lot of trouble and simply take out your checks books and write your checks directly to the Maloofs! What??? ... You won't do that??? Why??? Because you want the rest of us taxpayers to ... to provide for your entertainment.

Excellent post - proving again that at least in Folsom, the good of oneself outweighs the good of the many...sickening.

[benning]

Whenever I want to sway someone over to my side I start calling them names like self-centered. It works every time!


Love redevelopment, love the arena, understand that public good means that all taxes don't need to directly benefit everyone, love rich people, love the Kings

Hate the deal, gives all profit to the Maloofs and all risk to Sacto, and hate the fact that leaders bypass the clear intent of the law to put it on the ballot so it only requires a majority to pass.

It seems that people who are screaming for passage believe it can only happen if we roll over to the Maloof's demands. I say we should get a spine or instead of being known as a cow-town we'll become the model of just how far public subsidy for private profit can go.

[Chad Vander Veen]

Whenever I want to sway someone over to my side I start calling them names like self-centered. It works every time!
Love redevelopment, love the arena, understand that public good means that all taxes don't need to directly benefit everyone, love rich people, love the Kings

Hate the deal, gives all profit to the Maloofs and all risk to Sacto, and hate the fact that leaders bypass the clear intent of the law to put it on the ballot so it only requires a majority to pass.

It seems that people who are screaming for passage believe it can only happen if we roll over to the Maloof's demands. I say we should get a spine or instead of being known as a cow-town we'll become the model of just how far public subsidy for private profit can go.

Is it worth pointing out again that the measures can get passed and the arena can get built without the Maloofs or even the Kings?

Probably not, people believe what they want to believe.

[mylo]

Whenever I want to sway someone over to my side I start calling them names like self-centered. It works every time!
Love redevelopment, love the arena, understand that public good means that all taxes don't need to directly benefit everyone, love rich people, love the Kings

Hate the deal, gives all profit to the Maloofs and all risk to Sacto, and hate the fact that leaders bypass the clear intent of the law to put it on the ballot so it only requires a majority to pass.

It seems that people who are screaming for passage believe it can only happen if we roll over to the Maloof's demands. I say we should get a spine or instead of being known as a cow-town we'll become the model of just how far public subsidy for private profit can go.

+1

Is it worth pointing out again that the measures can get passed and the arena can get built without the Maloofs or even the Kings?

Probably not, people believe what they want to believe.

Sign up a team, and we'll discuss it then. Sure, there's little connection between these measures and the contract with the Maloofs, but I think voters feel this is their only time to directly impact that deal. Otherwise, once the arena is built (or at least on the books) it's out of their hands to make the deal.

[Chad Vander Veen]

+1
Sign up a team, and we'll discuss it then. Sure, there's little connection between these measures and the contract with the Maloofs, but I think voters feel this is their only time to directly impact that deal. Otherwise, once the arena is built (or at least on the books) it's out of their hands to make the deal.

We don't need a team signed up. We need an arena and the team will follow. Sacramento is a huge market with lots of $$$ to be had, an new arena/stadium will be filled. Remember Mylo, things other than sports can take place there.

[melloguy]

Hate the deal, gives all profit to the Maloofs and all risk to Sacto, and hate the fact that leaders bypass the clear intent of the law to put it on the ballot so it only requires a majority to pass.

My wife was quite surprised to find out I was not supporting either measure because I am a huge sports fan (Warriors season tickets for eight years, Kings for six) and have been to many other events at Arco (wrestling, boxing, ice shows, NCAA tourneys, etc.). Benning really hit the nail on the head for me. Like it or not, for many the newspaper accounts have made it seem that this is solely a Kings-City deal and not a partnership, but a giveaway. No arguments I have seen so far would persuade me otherwise.

The second part bothers me almost as much as the first - I look at the tax portion of the initiative as standing an excellent chance of being overturned by the courts. This is what I see as a great waste of taxpayers time and money and the reason Sacto won't get out of the cowtown mode win or lose for the initiatives 1) Lose and you're a cowtown for even thinking you could get this through the electorate or 2) win, then get overturned in the courts even after others have warned it would happen (see Santa Clara County and HP Pavillion approach).

[Buford T Justice]

Excellent post - proving again that at least in Folsom, the good of oneself outweighs the good of the many...sickening.

You shouldn't be too surprised by that.