343 replies to this topic

[benning]

I HIGHLY doubt you would have compassion for someone that caused the death of one of your loved ones. When I refer to the teen as a "GD punk" I'm being very polite.

I guess calling him a GD punk makes you feel better and so does calling me a liar.

[tessieca]

This absolutely breaks my heart. Seeing the husband and children on TV expressing their loss was too much to take. Hearing that the kids who did this were playing a game just makes me want to vomit. I'm with Dave -- don't care if it's 55, 60, 80 mph. They had a careless disregard of others to be racing on a main roadway in the middle of a weekend day. Teens are stupid, but we can't excuse the kind of stupidity that is so uncaring of the welfare of people around them.

I saw the mother of one of the boys on TV also. She showed no emotion or caring for the loss of life either. All she could do was to defend the boys, saying there is no proof they were racing (ala Benning here). And, Robert, I'm surprised at you as well. Those skid marks were 190 feet long, and they STILL killed they woman, which means that after that amount of breaking they still had enough speed to have a fatal impact. I saw recently what a 45 mph accident of that sort can do (same street, same car setup, different intersection at Black Diamond). While it luckily didn't kill anyone, both cars involved were irreparably totaled. The vehicle making the left turn was a pickup truck, which I think saved that young man's life.

I'm sure there is still more investigation to be done, but I've seen the skidmarks, the cars, the interviews, and I am pretty darned sure that four (two in each car) stupid boys have killed someone because they couldn't think past the fun of the moment.

[benning]

This absolutely breaks my heart.

All she could do was to defend the boys, saying there is no proof they were racing (ala Benning here).

I am pretty darned sure that four (two in each car) stupid boys have killed someone because they couldn't think past the fun of the moment.

I have since been exposed to more information that makes me believe they were very likely racing, although I would do my best if I were on a jury to hear the available evidence firsthand. And I agree with your other two points (heartbreak and stupid boys).

The ONLY difference is that I feel compassion also for the stupid boys and their families and I wish people would hold back and not rush to judgment.

[Orangetj]

I think if dad had to pay twice as much insurnace for a fast car it might make a difference. kids at that age are real stupid but thats the way the good lord fixed the wiring.

Insurance for "high risk" cars is typically more expensive than for other vehicles. I had a friend who drove a convertible Mustang GT while we were in High School....until he couldn't continue to afford the $3K per year insurance. Selling that car and buying something slower may very well have saved his life and those of other people, given the way he drove.

[Robert Giacometti]

Since this is a very sad and tragic incident, its natural that emotions are going to run high. We can all identify as it could have been anyone of us or a loved one.

Everybody needs to recognize its NOT been determined how fast the kids car was going right before he hit his brakes. If the kid was going 45 MPh and IF the lady did NOT yield and pulled out in front of the kid, then the kid is innocent.

If the kid was speeding, well above the speed limit then they should stand trial for manslaughter, IMHO.

I would just encourage everyone to wait for the facts, before we make any judgements!

[camay2327]

Many years ago, back in the late 50's, I use to drag race. I did mine on a drag strip and it was sanctioned by the state of Michigan. I really enjoyed being able to do this legally. I never did it on the open road and this is why.

On a drag strip you have yourself and one other vehicle you are racing and that is it. You do not need to worry about any cross traffic or anyone walking across the track in from of you.

If you race on the open road, you have more than two vehicles involved. You have other vehicles and people that you need to watch out for. If you are racing you are watching the vehicle next to you and are not watching what is happening out in front of you.

I think that is more than likely what happened. They were watching each other and saw the vehicle in front of them way to late. Also, if they were speeding and it seems they were, and coming around that curve just prior to hitting the car, they did not have time to react and stop in time.

That is my thoughts.

[ducky]

Where did this whole speaker thing originate anyway...I never saw it in any news accounts.

The "speaker thing" originated from the Channel 3 11:00 newscast the night of the accident. At least that's where I heard it.

I'm not a physics wiz, but I don't know if 190 feet of skid marks makes it even a possibility they were doing the 45 speed limit, considering the fatality and the resulting damage to vehicles.

[LadyGreenEyes]

I guess calling him a GD punk makes you feel better and so does calling me a liar.

I'm not going to argue over this. You're entitled to your thoughts as I am mine. Calling the kid a GD punk doesn't make me feel better, but I do have to be "polite" on this forum.

[Orangetj]

Skid marks are 190 feet? I guess I seriously underestimated the length of those marks when I saw them as I drove by. Most modern cars can come to a complete stop from 60 in 130 - 170 feet. If these were 190 feet long and the car was still traveling fast enough to cause such severe impact, certainly they must have been traveling significantly faster than 45.

[benning]

Since this is a very sad and tragic incident, its natural that emotions are going to run high. We can all identify as it could have been anyone of us or a loved one.

Everybody needs to recognize its NOT been determined how fast the kids car was going right before he hit his brakes. If the kid was going 45 MPh and IF the lady did NOT yield and pulled out in front of the kid, then the kid is innocent.

If the kid was speeding, well above the speed limit then they should stand trial for manslaughter, IMHO.

I would just encourage everyone to wait for the facts, before we make any judgements!

THANK YOU to the voice of reason.

[Robert Giacometti]

Skid marks are 190 feet? I guess I seriously underestimated the length of those marks when I saw them as I drove by. Most modern cars can come to a complete stop from 60 in 130 - 170 feet. If these were 190 feet long and the car was still traveling fast enough to cause such severe impact, certainly they must have been traveling significantly faster than 45.

Are the skid marks 190 feet from begining of braking to where the car stopped or are the skid marks from begining of braking to the impact point? Sometimes cars go quite a distance after impacts

I'm not an expert, but would agree that if the skid marks are 190 feet from start of braking to the impact point, then they probably were going faster than 45 mph.

Again, lets let the experts do their investigation to determine how fast the kids were going, before we judge them.

Does anyone know if all the drivers were wearing seat belts?

[LexHillsmom]

This truly is an emotional topic and my feelings are all over the radar. I relate alot to what Benning is saying and understand from a human standpoint where she is coming from. We're all just going off hearsay and news accounts and I can tell you that sometimes both are completely "spun" to look a certain way.

I have never lost someone I love to a car accident, especially one such as this that points to someone's poor judgement resulting in something horrific. Yet I feel my gut wrench up when I think of that woman, who could have been any of us moms and wives out there grabbing some stuff from the Outlets on a beautiful Saturday and heading home unaware that in one fatal flash it would be all over. Just realizing how we all live on such borrowed time sends chills down my spine.

It's freaking tragic....

But I do see the tragedy in this for the boys involved as well and their families. This is life altering for them. Someone here earlier said they should have had to look at that woman...I agree...they need to KNOW they made choices that resulted in a loss of a precious life...but we all need to be sure of this....wanting them to "be hanged" or to sit in prison for a good portion of their life to "think it over" will NOT yield those results...it will most likely result in more tragedy...a ripple effect that just goes on and on...

Our society has become so punitive and postured on who is right versus what is right... I think it is POSSIBLE for two immature punky teens to be so scared out of their wits to come off as remorseless and callous...as I think any of us mom's could EASILY defend our children when faced with something as monstrous and overwhelming as what happened...

I can put myself in the shoes of everyone involved here and see many possibilities.

[mom2mnm]

Read more carefully... she wasn't dead at the scene.

Obviously you have never hit a person with your car. When I was 18 I hit a man and the last thing on my mind was myself, my car or my possessions. He was a homeless man, drunk in the middle of the Hazel- Greenback intersection at night. I was going 40-45 mph when I hit him, and I have never been so upset in my life. I didn't know that he survived for a few days, and I was in shock the whole time and felt gut wrenching guilt eventhough I wasn't at fault.

If these kids were decent human beings, they would have been beside themselves at the scene. Even if they weren't at fault (which it seems that they were) they should not have been worried about their stupid speakers. I think this is evident of the selfishness that prevails in young people nowadays.

This is such a tragedy, and my prayers go out to all the family and those involved.

[bordercolliefan]

As I wrote above, I am shocked, sad, and angry that a woman has lost her life because of a dumb game.

At the same time, I know what Benning and LexHillsMom are saying. The truth is, probably every one of us made some dumb choices when we were younger. --After all, consider how many people admitted, in a different thread, to having DUI'd at some point in their lives. Whatever our dumbest choices were, most of us were just lucky that no one (including ourselves) ended up hurt or dead.

Somehow, we have to reconcile our anger and sadness with the recognition that ALL humans are fallible and that for an unlucky few, a moment's poor decision can result in tragedy.

[tony]

I agree completely with your entire post, but want to comment further on two parts:

I have never lost someone I love to a car accident, especially one such as this that points to someone's poor judgment resulting in something horrific. Yet I feel my gut wrench up when I think of that woman, who could have been any of us moms and wives out there grabbing some stuff from the Outlets on a beautiful Saturday and heading home unaware that in one fatal flash it would be all over. Just realizing how we all live on such borrowed time sends chills down my spine.

I like to avoid using the term "accident", as between 2/3 and 3/4 of all vehicle crashes are caused solely by driver error, while up to 90% of all crashes are caused at least in part by driver error (from the Global Road Safety Partnership). Accident implies an unavoidable, random event such as a tree falling on your car, a truck tire delaminating and crashing through your windshield, or a heart attack while driving (incidentally, the one person I've known who had a heart attack while driving rolled to a stop off of the shoulder and never crashed into anything - died of natural causes). Street racing is merely an extreme example of poor judgment while driving, as compared to speeding, “pushing” yellow lights, tailgating, talking on cell phones, etc. Many others contribute to the 42,000 Americans who die every year in vehicular crashes (and millions of others who are injured). That's a jumbo jet worth of Americans dieing every other day in mostly preventable crashes! Or, about 55 times as many American deaths per year as we have had in Iraq!

Where is the general outrage regarding the daily carnage from our most common mode of transportation?

Here’s a couple of other interesting facts: the average age of people who die in motor vehicle crashes is 39; the average age of people who die from ALL other causes is 71!. (from VTPI) Consequently, motor vehicle crashes have a hugely disproportionate impact on people’s lives, as demonstrated by the two recent senseless crashes in Folsom. “Unintentional injuries” are the 5th leading cause of death for all people, and THE leading cause for people between the ages of 15 and 25. Motor vehicle crashes are THE leading cause of death from unintentional injuries for all ages, responsible for just under 50%, and no other cause is close.

One more stat for you (also from the VTPI): the US is one of the safest places in the world for motorists if you look at fatalities per mile driven, but one of the least safe on a per capita basis. In other words, all the benefits of safer cars and safer roads are offset by the simple fact that Americans drive more, per capita, than any other people in the world. Sobering thought, especially when you hand the keys to the car to the highest risk drivers of all -- your teenage sons. The best way to ensure their safe passage to adulthood? Minimize their time in the car, and especially behind the wheel.

But I do see the tragedy in this for the boys involved as well and their families. This is life altering for them. Someone here earlier said they should have had to look at that woman...I agree...they need to KNOW they made choices that resulted in a loss of a precious life...but we all need to be sure of this....wanting them to "be hanged" or to sit in prison for a good portion of their life to "think it over" will NOT yield those results...it will most likely result in more tragedy...a ripple effect that just goes on and on...

Our society has become so punitive and postured on who is right versus what is right... I think it is POSSIBLE for two immature punky teens to be so scared out of their wits to come off as remorseless and callous...as I think any of us mom's could EASILY defend our children when faced with something as monstrous and overwhelming as what happened...

I can put myself in the shoes of everyone involved here and see many possibilities.

Like Lexhillsmom, without passing judgment on this particular case, while I am no fan of slaps on the wrist for motor vehicle fatalities, I also see no value in locking up a teenager and throwing away the key (or worse, capital punishment) after one incident of extremely poor judgment, even one that results in senseless fatalities. Why? Because then you’re guaranteeing that nothing good can come of it and that two lives, not just one are wasted. An impressionable teenager subject to appropriate punishment (I don’t claim to know what that is, but perhaps a few years in juvenile hall and maybe a few more in real prison, lots and lots of community service, and some percentage of wages garnished for life as a constant reminder) has a pretty high likelihood of having his life changed forever for the better, rather than the worse. All but the most hardened criminals have the ability to learn from their mistakes. And maybe, just maybe, such a kid will internalize the guilt and dedicate some portion of the remainder of his free life to preventing other stupid teenagers from making the same mistake. Lexhillsmom said it better, I think: Excessive punishment in a case like this would “most likely result in more tragedy…a ripple effect that just goes on and on…”