272 replies to this topic

[Dave Burrell]

....yeah....my humidor is a little different than Bills

[tessieca]

Has anyone else filed a law suit as a result of this ?
Inquiring minds would like to know

No.

Would you be ok if I came to your place of work and threw a bottle at you? Threatened to kill you? Threw a rock at you? Sexually harass you?

No, it wouldn't be okay, but would I sue you? Or would I sue your employer? I could tell your employer that some employee, not sure which one, threw things at me and that they didn't stop it so they should pay me. Does that sound right?

[tessieca]

Q for the Gay Kid: Why do you define everything you do by your sexuality? Why does it matter so much to you or the rest of us to which gender you are attracted?

Maybe we should start a new thread: Suggestions for new hobbies for the gay kid.

[Dave Burrell]

Q for the Gay Kid: Why do you define everything you do by your sexuality? Why does it matter so much to you or the rest of us to which gender you are attracted?

Maybe we should start a new thread: Suggestions for new hobbies for the gay kid.

I'd like to challenge swmr to not say or show that he's gay for one entire week - both on here and in regular every day life.

seriously, it'd be a good litmus test on how the public reacts to him.... try going out to eat somewhere (without the b/f), go shopping etc - see if he gets hassled anywhere or treated with disrespect in anyway.

this would eliminate the gay factor being involved in how he's perceived and treated by the public and would focus on just him and his personality - sexual preference does not have to be at the forefront of every conversation and meeting

I firmly believe that people are treated the same was as they treat others - and its not based on sexual preference - its sorta a vibe that people give off - for example if someone goes some place with a bad attitude, they're automatically going to receive a bad attitude in kind from whoever they're dealing with

I've tested this theory - you can smile in the face of someone who totally hates you and it will change the way they feel about you.... but if you return the hate - it will get you nowhere

seriously swmr - try that out sometime and let us know how it goes...

[swmr545]

Swmr - Do you mind listing the points of the case? There has to be more than what is in the article. Also, you previously stated that you don't care about the money. What exactly do you want out of the lawsuit?

I'm sure that everyone is now aware of the three incidents that occured.

I filed a complaint under the Uniform Complaint Procedures spelled out by the school board.

The administration didn't follow it even though they felt like they did. I never recieved any information about what (if any) investigations they led. When I contacted a district person they told me to, "drop it and move on with my life."

When I had a meeting with another district person, they told me that they didn't feel like I was sexually harassed and so it wasn't investigated as such (their own policy and the law says that sexual harassment is how the victim feels, not how other intend or view the harassment). In a follow up letter, I was told that what I experienced didn't effect my ability to be a good student (dropping out a year when I went from a 3.3 to a 1.8).

With another meeting, the district made a promise that in all schools, all classrooms, and all areas that students have access they will post the harassment/discrimination policy. They also said that they will give a training to administrators who will then go back to their school site and give to their teachers.

When I followed up about the policy, I was told that every classroom had it, so I asked to go to FHS and take a look with a district person (I know earlier either in this thread or another I said it was a Dept. of Ed person...my apologies). He went ahead and looked in classrooms, and I went seperately, and he apologized to me that it wasn't being implimented like he had promised me it was.

When it came to the training, I was invited to introduce it. I was then told I had to leave. They passed out information (which I provided) to the administrators. At the start of the school year, the administrators were supposedly going to give this training. When I contacted other school sites to talk with teachers I knew to see if they got this training, they had no idea what I was talking about.

I also asked that the training be an annual one, was told it would be, and that is not the case.

So, in my lawsuit, I am not suiing because I was harassed. I am suiing because the district failed to protect me and failed to follow their own policies. It took me 2 years and a letter from the ACLU to get a response. I was to be informed with their response that I could appeal to the next level (school to district, district to school board, school board to state).

When I finally did get a response I called the Dept. of Ed to find out what I should do, they told me that since I had waited two years and the district didn't seem serious enough in following their policies that I can skip the steps and appeal immediately to them. In their investigation they had found the district to be out of compliance with state law and district policy. At the end of their investigation, they informed me that I had the right to file a lawsuit against the school district for their inaction and failure in compliance. I then looked for an attorney and talked to her about my case.

She agreed with the district, but told me she couldn't represent me due to a conflict of interest. So she sent me to another attorney who has taken on my case.

Yes there was another lawsuit filed against the school district for anti-gay harassment prior to my attendance of FHS. I don't know if any other students while I was there complained of harassment. But remember, not all students are aware of the UCP and not all students are comfortable enough to file a complaint.

When my own sister was being threatened by her ex-bf on campus, she refused to go to the admin or police because she didn't want her ex-bf to get in trouble. In the meantime, he was waiting for her to come on campus and would walk behind her and stand behind her while she was talking w/ friends. If a boy talked to her, he'd grab her away from him. And eventually told her that if he can't have her, no one else will see her either (that's when I went to admin and police against her will).

[awood]

For those of you who don't believe my experience at HS was different than yours, I have a question for you.

Would you be ok if I came to your place of work and threw a bottle at you? Threatened to kill you? Threw a rock at you? Sexually harass you? And if you reported this to the police, I send my friends to confront you about it? How about following you around? Spitting at you? Saying that you will go to hell if you don't believe the same way I do? Saying that your parents are unfit? Telling you that instead of me being disciplined for my behavior, you leave your place of work and go somewhere else?

If you are ok with me doing that let me know where you work and I will start right away.

Let's see, in my HS experience I recall getting hit with a baseball bat while boarding a bus, being locked in a locker (several times), being held down as they sprayed me with Nair, spit on several times, and having my knees attacked on a regular basis with the intent of disabling me. I was called a "wigger" as I had a lot of black friends (we had known each other since kindergarten), duct taped to a goal post, and thrown naked from a locker room in to a gym full girls.

All of this was part of being a kid. I began as a 112lb. freshman wrestling and finished HS as a 225 lb. all-conference defensive end. It was all part of the experience, regardless of who you are people pick on you in HS. You either man up and defend yourself, or get through it and move on with your life. You don't spend your time blaming others. Hatred will eat you up inside, by blaming and hating others you are part of the problem not part of the solution. If one of these religous zealets come back at you some day and sue because their HS experience was ruined because of a gay guys presence (aka. you!) does that help anyone? An eye for an eye makes for a lot of blind folks.

[chris v]

As bad as it sounds, there are still a couple guys that I won't hesitate to beat down if I ever see them again, another reason why I didn't go to my 10 year reunion last month.

[mylo]

I got rocks thrown, locker vandalized, broken into, and stuff stolen. A knife pulled, shoved, punched, and laughed at. I've been told I'm going to hell, but I like warm weather.

I'll PM you my work address, with this threat in writing and all these witnesses I'll finally make the million bucks I'm entitled to when you come by!

[ChipShot]

I'd like to challenge swmr to not say or show that he's gay for one entire week - both on here and in regular every day life.

He's entitled to rant about issues that he faces. We aren't required to read/listen. I think I pretty much have a grasp of his life, etc. I can move on to other things, or comment if I wish. No biggee.....

[Carl G]

I'm sure that everyone is now aware of the three incidents that occured.

I filed a complaint under the Uniform Complaint Procedures spelled out by the school board.

....

Swmr - Thank you for the details. I hope you keep us informed as much as you can as things proceed. Please don't take this wrong, but I hope for two things. 1) You fail with your lawsuit (I don't want to see even more money get diverted from kids to lawyers.) and 2) The school district actually starts following the law and does the right thing (which if I understand you correctly is the actual purpose of the lawsuit).

You would think that educators would have learned one thing from Columbine - a hostile environment can lead to very bad consequences. It is funny that if kids behaved as you described at my high school, they would have been suspended for one week on the first situation and expelled on the second.

You know swmr, you and I are not so different. I'm a lesbian trapped in a man's body.

[folsom500]

I'm sure that everyone is now aware of the three incidents that occured.

A rock a bottle and a death threat - Right ?

I filed a complaint under the Uniform Complaint Procedures spelled out by the school board.

When was this ? while you were in HS or after you left ?
The same question applies to all of the following :

The administration didn't follow it even though they felt like they did. I never recieved any information about what (if any) investigations they led. When I contacted a district person they told me to, "drop it and move on with my life."

When I had a meeting with another district person, they told me that they didn't feel like I was sexually harassed and so it wasn't investigated as such (their own policy and the law says that sexual harassment is how the victim feels, not how other intend or view the harassment). In a follow up letter, I was told that what I experienced didn't effect my ability to be a good student (dropping out a year when I went from a 3.3 to a 1.8).

With another meeting, the district made a promise that in all schools, all classrooms, and all areas that students have access they will post the harassment/discrimination policy. They also said that they will give a training to administrators who will then go back to their school site and give to their teachers.

When I followed up about the policy, I was told that every classroom had it, so I asked to go to FHS and take a look with a district person (I know earlier either in this thread or another I said it was a Dept. of Ed person...my apologies). He went ahead and looked in classrooms, and I went seperately, and he apologized to me that it wasn't being implimented like he had promised me it was.

When it came to the training, I was invited to introduce it. I was then told I had to leave. They passed out information (which I provided) to the administrators. At the start of the school year, the administrators were supposedly going to give this training. When I contacted other school sites to talk with teachers I knew to see if they got this training, they had no idea what I was talking about.

I also asked that the training be an annual one, was told it would be, and that is not the case.

So, in my lawsuit, I am not suiing because I was harassed. I am suiing because the district failed to protect me

I still fail to understand how they FAILED to protect you -- From WHAT ? If it was not harassment - what ?

....and failed to follow their own policies. It took me 2 years and a letter from the ACLU to get a response. I was to be informed with their response that I could appeal to the next level (school to district, district to school board, school board to state).

When I finally did get a response I called the Dept. of Ed to find out what I should do, they told me that since I had waited two years and the district didn't seem serious enough in following their policies that I can skip the steps and appeal immediately to them. In their investigation they had found the district to be out of compliance with state law and district policy. At the end of their investigation, they informed me that I had the right to file a lawsuit against the school district for their inaction and failure in compliance. I then looked for an attorney and talked to her about my case.

She agreed with the district, but told me she couldn't represent me due to a conflict of interest. So she sent me to another attorney who has taken on my case.

Pro-bono ? or is she in it for the money ? Is she also gay ?

Yes there was another lawsuit filed against the school district for anti-gay harassment prior to my attendance of FHS.

Is this really true ? and what was the outcome of it ? You SHOULD know this since you may have precedence to support your claims...

I don't know if any other students while I was there complained of harassment. But remember, not all students are aware of the UCP and not all students are comfortable enough to file a complaint.

Now wait a minute - First do you know if other gay students ( I mean personally know) were harassed in the same or worse manner than you were ?
Second - I think I hear you tell us that you had set up a gay/ straight alliance - Right ? Did you meet other students that were gay in this group ? If so , since you knew about the UCP and were being harassed,. wouldn't you have told them also about the UCP and helped not only their cause but also help them to make same or similar complaints to the administration so both they and you would be better "protected" ?

Or was it that all your UPC and meetings done AFTER you left the high school ?

When my own sister was being threatened by her ex-bf on campus, she refused to go to the admin or police because she didn't want her ex-bf to get in trouble. In the meantime, he was waiting for her to come on campus and would walk behind her and stand behind her while she was talking w/ friends. If a boy talked to her, he'd grab her away from him. And eventually told her that if he can't have her, no one else will see her either (that's when I went to admin and police against her will).

...Non sequitur this has nothing to do with anything ...

So what I don't get is- when did you have the upper level meetings with district, when did you file based on the UCP - How you knew about the UCP , Why you did not have other gays helping you or you helping them with your gay/straight alliance...

I also consider the attempted suicide and the GPA drop to be related more to you coming out and realizing you were a gay man in a heterosexual world than anything related to 3 what look like very minor incidents you faced...

Do not get me wrong - Even as an adult gay - we have our fears and we take certain precautions to mitigate our own situations to minimized any potential negative situation... And also do not get me wrong - that any time of gay bashing , harassment is cause for personal concern-- just as it was when I was straight skinny and wearing hand me downs .... ( hey - I still get hand me downs as Farley has upsized and I have as well - He gets to buy his new duds while I get his older ones- Geez)

so I am not saying things did NOT happen- and that things wont happen - just that your information leads me to have lots of questions on motivation, timing , and other inconsistencies..

Cheers
F500

[Dave Burrell]

He's entitled to rant about issues that he faces. We aren't required to read/listen. I think I pretty much have a grasp of his life, etc. I can move on to other things, or comment if I wish. No biggee.....

I don't mind his posts, rants or whatever you wanna call 'em...

I was just curious about that test to see if he would be treated any differently or not

but I've never had a prob with anything he posts - like I've said before its good to hear all perspectives - it helps us to open our minds and eyes to how other people experience life

[Robert Giacometti]

I can appreciate having an issue or concern with the District where you felt you were not treated fairly. I know from personal experience that things don't always don't turn out fair and just.

We had an experience, whereby it was fairly obvious that discrimination occurred and excluded us from an opportunity. We went through the complaint process with the District and IMHO the District worked to resolve the complaint in a manner to (CYA) rather than correct a wrong. The District even "misplaced" the complaint for about 40 days so there was really no way for them to possibly correct the issue.

We contacted an attorney who felt we had an EXCELLENT case, except there would be no way of ever regaing that lost opportunity! In the end it was my son who decided as long as no one else ever suffered the same consequences he did, that would be satisfactory to him.

You can make changes without filing lawsuits.

[supermom]

I can appreciate having an issue or concern with the District where you felt you were not treated fairly. I know from personal experience that things don't always don't turn out fair and just.

We had an experience, whereby it was fairly obvious that discrimination occurred and excluded us from an opportunity. We went through the complaint process with the District and IMHO the District worked to resolve the complaint in a manner to (CYA) rather than correct a wrong. The District even "misplaced" the complaint for about 40 days so there was really no way for them to possibly correct the issue.

We contacted an attorney who felt we had an EXCELLENT case, except there would be no way of ever regaing that lost opportunity! In the end it was my son who decided as long as no one else ever suffered the same consequences he did, that would be satisfactory to him.

You can make changes without filing lawsuits.

Hey no offense to all the posters here but: I think that SWMR and several other posters have very good reasons for having lawsuits against their schools regardless of whether there was sexual discrimmination. Every human has the right to go to school and their workplace without the fear of violence and reprisals from complaints. The No Fear Act is pretty explanatory in this: except it was written to be a product used for employees and not for students who are minors. I wonder if that is why schools haven't cracked down on kids?

We are gonna have to have lawsuits to have laws made and laws enforced.

Sorry folks: there is just too much violence in schools.

[jafount]

Hey no offense to all the posters here but: I think that SWMR and several other posters have very good reasons for having lawsuits against their schools regardless of whether there was sexual discrimmination. Every human has the right to go to school and their workplace without the fear of violence and reprisals from complaints. The No Fear Act is pretty explanatory in this: except it was written to be a product used for employees and not for students who are minors. I wonder if that is why schools haven't cracked down on kids?

We are gonna have to have lawsuits to have laws made and laws enforced.

Sorry folks: there is just too much violence in schools.

Here's a thought...

Why haven't the FRIGGIN PARENTS cracked down on the kids????

Schools can't "crack down" because a-hole parents find an a-hole attorney to sue the school for cracking down. When I was a kid, my parents signed an agreement that the principal of my elementary school could spank me if I was deserving.

Once again, lawyers, feelings and the wussification of America at work.