177 replies to this topic

[slowthegrowth]

There are lifelong discussions about hygiene and relationships that are much better when delivered by a woman to a daughter and from a man to a son then could ever be related otherwise. Whoever or whatever created mankind made the genders very different for reasons other than procreation.
Can a man advise a girl regarding tampons... or relationships...or clothes etc etc...sure, but as well as a mom? I feel for the kids....

[folsom500]

Some of you seem to ignore the fact that the percentage of kids in a single parent home is 34% for all families in the USA ( 2010 data) and growing ...

http://datacenter.ki...gs.aspx?ind=107

[doj_gal]

Wow...just Wow...Some people have some very different thoughts on this topic.
My husband and I are of different faiths. He no longer practices his faith however, I still attend church and consider myself a Christian. We decided to marry at the courthouse due to numerous reasons: cost, difference of faith and at the time no home church for me. My marriage commitment is to my husband and although we have gone through very tough times, we've chosen to honor our marriage vows and remain married.
To say that my marriage is less than or sinful because we chose not to specifically put God into our wedding is absolutely ridiculous!

And divorce is not a sin...hmm convenient! I am not here to judge anyone’s marriage outcome, however it’s pretty asinine to judge someone for their LIFELONG commitment to their partner (regardless gender or religion) when nearly 1/2 of marriages decide to go against their God, faith, marriage and relationship by calling it quits and giving up.

I say let’s have a religious marriage and secular marriage for the differing populous with the exact same benefits for both. Sadly, some of those married Christians are pretty excluding and ugly when it comes to differences.

Judge not, less they be judged. Personally, a loving commitment regardless of race, gender, creed etc is a beautiful thing. What’s even better is when it actually is a true and honest lifelong loving commitment. I guess that makes me not a real Christian(in some people’s eyes) because I do not follow every single scripture ever written…To me being a Christian is having God and Jesus in my life and serving their purpose. I doubt name calling, exclusion and hatred was ever on their agenda.

[Rich_T]

Some of you seem to ignore the fact that the percentage of kids in a single parent home is 34% for all families in the USA ( 2010 data) and growing ...

http://datacenter.kidscount.org/data/acrossstates/Rankings.aspx?ind=107

Yes, and in fact it's more than 70% for blacks. Who's ignoring it? It's just another indication of how real people fall short of the societal ideal, to the detriment of society as a whole. It is, however, unrelated to determining whether same-sex relationships satisfy the societal purpose(s) of marriage.

[supermom]

Interesting statement.

So Jews can't marry?
Buddhists can't marry?
Muslims can't marry?
Atheists can't marry?
Wiccans can't marry?
I could go on and on, but I think I've made my point.

I didn't say that. Go back, reread my post. I said Marriage is Patented by God. Not by law. The law has civil unions. The only point you made is that you jumped in on a conversation without reading the thread.

[supermom]

Helloooooo SuperChristianMom, looking forward to your answer to this question (don't forget my Hindu friends I mentioned a few posts ago)

I've been in school all day. just got home.

already answered your question about other faiths and their ceremonies. separating a religious ceremony and liturgical terms on a legal document that affirms freedom of religion for all people : is something I take literally.


A marriage certificate is something a priest, rabbi, whatever- should sign as an affidavit to the family and the couple that they completed a religious ceremony.


Completely separate from that regardless of your religion or non religion views, a couple goes to the justice of the peace to sign a contract that they are house mates/ a couple, domestic partners, etc....and will comply with federal/state/ legal/financial rights and obligations as such- until they die or divorce.


I really can't believe this is so hard to understand.


Separation of church and state.

[EDF]

I have a serious question for all those that are against civil rights for all....err I mean gay marriage.

How exactly does allowing gays to marry negatively impact your daily life?? BY allowing gays the same rights you have, what rights does it take away from you?
I really would like to know.

Oh Puh-lease... I'm so sick of the "gay agenda"...

if you want to be gay... don't force it down my throat...

being a "homosexual" is "deviant"... not normal and therefore should not be taught in our schools... should not be "celebrated" like you folks think...

Now... I'm not in favor of housing, employment or any other discrimination... but marriage is between a man and a woman...

It's people like you with views like this that have driven the moral character of the country into the ground and now we get people like Obama in office... THE WORST Poverty pimping, race baiting divisive dude ever...

We voted for Prop 8 and one stinking judge wants to throw it out...

May a pox be upon those of you that want to shove this down America's throat...

but other than that... I don't really have a position on Gay Marriage...

[EDF]

Wow...just Wow...Some people have some very different thoughts on this topic.
My husband and I are of different faiths. He no longer practices his faith however, I still attend church and consider myself a Christian. We decided to marry at the courthouse due to numerous reasons: cost, difference of faith and at the time no home church for me. My marriage commitment is to my husband and although we have gone through very tough times, we've chosen to honor our marriage vows and remain married.
To say that my marriage is less than or sinful because we chose not to specifically put God into our wedding is absolutely ridiculous!

And divorce is not a sin...hmm convenient! I am not here to judge anyone’s marriage outcome, however it’s pretty asinine to judge someone for their LIFELONG commitment to their partner (regardless gender or religion) when nearly 1/2 of marriages decide to go against their God, faith, marriage and relationship by calling it quits and giving up.

I say let’s have a religious marriage and secular marriage for the differing populous with the exact same benefits for both. Sadly, some of those married Christians are pretty excluding and ugly when it comes to differences.

Judge not, less they be judged. Personally, a loving commitment regardless of race, gender, creed etc is a beautiful thing. What’s even better is when it actually is a true and honest lifelong loving commitment. I guess that makes me not a real Christian(in some people’s eyes) because I do not follow every single scripture ever written…To me being a Christian is having God and Jesus in my life and serving their purpose. I doubt name calling, exclusion and hatred was ever on their agenda.

yea.. yea... anyone opposed to your point of view of "embracing" gay marriage is probably a hater...

they teach this deviant lifestyle to our kids now... any wonder why the US is now a sewer and under achieving... this is part of the problem... "excuse-niks" like you because, god forbid any of us be judgmental on this issue... because that would be "judgmental"... and wrong huh...

[doj_gal]

yea.. yea... anyone opposed to your point of view of "embracing" gay marriage is probably a hater...

they teach this deviant lifestyle to our kids now... any wonder why the US is now a sewer and under achieving... this is part of the problem... "excuse-niks" like you because, god forbid any of us be judgmental on this issue... because that would be "judgmental"... and wrong huh...

We are all judgmental in nature...every.single.one.of.us! I guess my thought is this. A homosexual relationship has no negative effect on mine or your marriage…Oh wait!! You are divorced, right?…Again someone who gave up on his marriage, yet wants a say in someone else having the ability to love openly in a commited marriage and that kind of marriage is ruining this country. How about all the divorcees of this world, broken homes, fathers and mothers not taking responsibility for their commitments and their children?

That is what is ruining this country TONS of people who cannot hold up to their end of the bargain on ANYTHING!!! Corrupt politicians, Jobs shipped overseas to say $, foreclosure, bankruptcy, failed credit system, tax evasion, adultery, broken families, divorces, family court, non commited sexual encounters resulting in children …etc. Everyday, everywhere I see it…and that is what is making me SICK about America. The failure to stick with your promises and live up to the standard and decency of taking care of your responsibilities is what is RUINING America…! NOT the ability for someone to love whom they by nature are compelled to love regardless of gender. I’d rather see two people in love, caring for each other, whom may be homosexual, than all the heterosexual, broken or single homes I see everyday. Love knows no bounds and who are we to say whom others can love and whom others are deviant because their love is different from ours. Shame on you and all the negative, unhealthy energy you stand for!

I say let's start with the people who actually ruin the deceny of marriage by divorcing or marrying for other reasons than a lifelong, commited and connected union. Then we can start attacking all the other immoral actions I've listed above! America is not crumbling because of love, infact it's quite the opposite.

[Rich_T]

I say let's start with the people who actually ruin the deceny of marriage by divorcing or marrying for other reasons than a lifelong, commited and connected union. Then we can start attacking all the other immoral actions I've listed above! America is not crumbling because of love, infact it's quite the opposite.

I actually agree with everything you wrote, except I still don't see how that justifies calling a lifelong, loving relationship between two people of the same gender "marriage", since none of those unions will ever partake in producing the next generation. "Domestic partnership" is what I would call the relationships. That doesn't diminish love or commitment or benefits, but places the relationships in the correct category.

Trying to fix what's broken about marriage and responsibility is important - but is a separate topic from whether gay unions fit the purpose of marriage. And, as I stated way back when, we can agree to disagree on that purpose.

[folsom500]

I actually agree with everything you wrote, except I still don't see how that justifies calling a lifelong, loving relationship between two people of the same gender "marriage", since none of those unions will ever partake in producing the next generation. "Domestic partnership" is what I would call the relationships. That doesn't diminish love or commitment or benefits, but places the relationships in the correct category.

Trying to fix what's broken about marriage and responsibility is important - but is a separate topic from whether gay unions fit the purpose of marriage. And, as I stated way back when, we can agree to disagree on that purpose.

Rich - I just do not understand your BENT about "since none of those unions will ever partake in producing the next generation."

Many Lesbians as well as their heterosexual counterparts partake in the use of Sperm Donors and invitro Fertilization.
Many gay men also - Like their heterosexual counterparts donate sperm and have surrogates for child bearing and both gay men and women like their heterosexual counterparts adopt children as well.

All of these actions are producing the next generation...

There is no definition anywhere where it says that a marriage must be a perfect union... that is only wishful thinking on your part ...

[doj_gal]

I actually agree with everything you wrote, except I still don't see how that justifies calling a lifelong, loving relationship between two people of the same gender "marriage", since none of those unions will ever partake in producing the next generation. "Domestic partnership" is what I would call the relationships. That doesn't diminish love or commitment or benefits, but places the relationships in the correct category.

Trying to fix what's broken about marriage and responsibility is important - but is a separate topic from whether gay unions fit the purpose of marriage. And, as I stated way back when, we can agree to disagree on that purpose.

You're version of marriage is for the sole purpose of procreation and furthering the population.

My version of marriage is 2 committed people who love each other so much that they are willing to commit to a lifelong, spiritual bond in support and care for each other. No where in my understanding or ideal comes children. Nor did I marry to have children. I chose to marry because I loved my spouse and wanted him in my life forever. I chose to have children because I love children and had that calling on my life to produce 2 little mini me's to love, support, nurture and raise. I had that desire since I was young, before I even thought about marriage and what my life's purpose may be. I always knew I would be a mother.

I think my version includes more people who want to show the ultimate commitment to one another, realizing that there will be hard times and it takes courage, conviction and hard work to make a marriage last through the good times AND bad. If it was just about procreation...well I've already filled my due...is my marriage able to erode and falter because I made mini humans?...Um no, I have to keep working on my marriage, sharing love and make our union stronger.

Any two people can raise a child in a healthy way, married or not, heterosexual or homosexual. Do I think there is one situation which is more ideal to raising the best children? I do not know. For me it was important for the commitment of marriage for my family and children. I was lucky to have been born heterosexual, furtile, able physically and emotionally to have children and able to marry whom I chose.

My ideal of marriage goes beyond any legal benefits I may receive but if I were told that I could not marry because I was in love with my husband for ______________(insert reason) the overall populous thought the ideal of my love was gross or deviant, than I would be devastated. Not only would a domestic partnership not embody the love and devotion I have for my husband, but legally would not be recognized or accepted by our nation as a whole. Anything other than the term "marriage" is insufficient in all respects.

Personally the only thing I think is broken about "marriage" is the fact that everyone is concerned that their marriage will suffer if others have the ability to legally marry. I think those folks should focus on their bond with their partner and try to keep from becoming one of those divorced individuals.

Just because some people are able to have children or marry doesn't mean they should...and just because some people cannot have children(physically) or marry(legally) doesn't mean they shouldn't!!!!!

[crossski]

I understand your point of view about marriage.

That's right - not all marriages involve children. But ultimately, if NO marriages produced their own children, as is the case with same-sex partners, then our society would have no real use for marriage at all. To the extent that there is still a fundamental reason for the existence of marriage, I will continue to support that reason, and reject the things that don't fit the purpose. From my perspective, there's just as much time and energy being wasted in trying to force-fit relationships into marriage when they don't fit the bill.

I don't think we should decide all societal questions based on the concept of "fine, do what you want, since it's not hurting anyone". There also should be a decent reason FOR enacting something.

EXACTLY
"I don't think we should decide all societal questions based on the concept of "fine, do what you want, since it's not hurting anyone". There also should be a decent reason FOR enacting something."

This is what advocates of same sex marriage are missing or DO NOT seem to care about. To that end, THEY feel that we and everyone else should not care about it or society either.

[doj_gal]

EXACTLY
"I don't think we should decide all societal questions based on the concept of "fine, do what you want, since it's not hurting anyone". There also should be a decent reason FOR enacting something."

This is what advocates of same sex marriage are missing or DO NOT seem to care about. To that end, THEY feel that we and everyone else should not care about it or society either.

Really?!?!? I am just to the moon with this thought process. I have given up on any logical discussion with Rich T because his only answer for marriage is procreation and that is and was never the basis for a marriage ever! I do however find it odd that because you may not see the value both morally and legally with homosexual couples marrying, many others do. There are plenty of legal, financial, emotional and moral reasons that couples chose to marry. I think as a society we should extend those rights to every person and stay out of the bedroom looking beyond our seriously flawed, homophobic and damaging prejudice!