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Voter Fraud Is A Non-Issue


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#91 (MaxineR)

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 05:08 PM

its sorta hard to measure voter fraud. If you do it and get away with it, only you and the old vote count knows cause its not something most folks brag about. the lack of id requirment makes it easy for the faud voter to vote more than once. In fact there is no limit as to how many times a person votes long as they don't go back to the same place to vote. you wonder what kind of person can go through life without an id, and how many without the old ID would bother to get one if they were made available like they are here in california.

you kinda wonder if a person can get on welfare without any ID. Heck if a person can figure out how to vote a few times, they might also be able to get welfare for the made up people they were when they voted.



There have been cases of Welfare Fraud and it’s common knowledge that it still takes place today. One woman here in California, got millions in Welfare by lying about minor children she didn’t have. She used children once borrowed from a friend, then they went back to their own homes. This was many years back and it made the papers. Maybe you remember?

With today’s technology one can forge a birth certificate, a drivers license or a high school diploma. Given the right computer program, that is.

Fraudulent voting is taking place, just not being caught. That would require all voters be screened and investigated. We don’t have the resources to do that.

That is the reason a voter ID be place, to ensure the person voting, is legally entitled to vote.
Pure and simple, and easy for most to understand. It’s the way of the twenty first century.

Although, some would like us to live in the past, trust everybody will be honest and think a voter ID would be too much trouble for the minor percentage that it would adversely affect.

#92 cw68

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 05:11 PM

Additionally, this sums up my feelings to a "T"

http://jurist.org/fo...ik-voter-id.php

Believe whatever you want to believe. But this is my perspective. It's real, it's not lacking in substance. It's not shouting platitudes that people "should" get off their arses and just get an ID. You know, the impoverished lack fortitude and their votes are less important than the wealthier among us who are better because we have IDs. It's about reality, not wishful thinking or how I think the world should be.

Anyway. I'm done.

#93 (MaxineR)

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 05:20 PM

You completely misunderstood the fear and facts. Yes, we need facts. There are no facts to back up claims of widespread voter fraud. The fear I'm talking about isn't the fear of voting, it's the fear of illegals and fears of them voting.

There are more than a few people who have a difficult time and it's not just the back woods of West Virginia. Your "normal" is not "normal" for many.

You simply do not understand the Voter Rights Act and how important it is. That is the law.

Facts on the hundreds of thousands? Sure. How about 700,000 in Pennsylvania alone?

"The bill would require all voters in Pennsylvania to present a valid, unexpired government-issued photo identification card at the polls. Current federal law only requires voters to present identification when they vote for the first time in a new election precinct.

Under the legislation, voters who do not have photo ID - seniors who no longer drive, low-income residents who use public transportation, disabled seniors and veterans, and students - would have to go through the time and expense of obtaining photo ID, or would have to vote provisionally at the polling place, then make a trip to the county courthouse to confirm their identity."

According to the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation, nearly 700,000 Pennsylvanians lack photo ID, half of them seniors.



I’m afraid you are judging the citizens of Pennsylvania in a unfavorable light. I’m sure there are many who will find a way to become legal voters in that state, drivers or not, seniors or not and minorities or not.

It is one thing to make laws that make voting more legitimate, and another to make it impossible.

This is the former, not the ladder.

But we are off topic here. I’ll catch you on the thread that addresses this issue. If you don’t mind.

#94 supermom

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 07:09 PM

Yes, you do have a right to it.

I never said I was right because of a court backing my point of view. I said the courts have been upholding my arguments.

The Voter Rights Act of 1965 was a landmark piece that outlawed discriminatory voting practices. It specifically prohibits "voting qualification or prerequisite to voting, or standard, practice, or procedure ... to deny or abridge the right of any citizen of the United States to vote on account of race or color." Requiring IDs to vote, while based in terms of voter fraud, actually have their greatest impact by limiting participation of African Americans, Latinos, Asians and the young. This goes directly against the Voter Rights Act. The Texas law law imposed strict, unforgiving burdens on the poor, and note that racial minorities in Texas are more likely to live in poverty.

Where's the proof of voting fraud? Let's look at Wisconsin. A nonpartisan study on voter fraud in Wisconsin after the 2004 election found just seven ineligible votes—all of which were cast by ex-felons who were ineligible to vote despite being released from prison—out of 3 million ballots cast. SEVEN VOTES. After South Carolina Attorney General Alan Wilson said on Fox that they knew “we know for a fact there are deceased people whose identities are being used in elections in South Carolina.” a state investigation turned up zero evidence of fraud. ZERO. You may say that it's hard to catch, but I think that's a poor justification to strip millions of the right to vote.

Oh, but it's so easy to fraudulently vote so it must be happening, right? Voter fraud is a felony that carries a federal sentence of five years in prison and a $10,000 fine. That's why it doesn't happen. It doesn't make sense to steal an election one vote at a time with this risk. Just because something is easy doesn't mean it should be banned. I heard the argument that it's easy to dump a bucket of water on a policeman's head but it doesn't happen because people don't want to go to jail.

This issue is more about fears than facts. There is NO PROOF of widespread voter fraud, but a lot of people are worried about undocumented immigrants menacing our country. Because they are here they must also be voting illegally. If there's widespread voter fraud, let's confront it. But I think it's a shame that hundreds of thousands of American citizens may lose their right to vote because of fear, a fear of a "problem" that doesn't exist.


I'd appreciate it if you bolded this in your post. I think it worthy of extra attention for those people digging their heels in and screaming they are right...


You may say that it's hard to catch, but I think that's a poor justification to strip millions of the right to vote.

#95 cw68

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 10:10 PM

I'd appreciate it if you bolded this in your post. I think it worthy of extra attention for those people digging their heels in and screaming they are right...


You may say that it's hard to catch, but I think that's a poor justification to strip millions of the right to vote.

Thank you. IMHO, this is an argument about rights. We hear over and over that it's such a small group of people, people who aren't up to snuff so who cares. I don't care who or how many, a right is a right. It's never OK in my book to deny Americans their rights.

#96 Homer

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 10:43 PM

It is still actually true, but now for monetary and mobility reasons.

Granted, This might be an issue for a miniscule portion of the rual population of the country, But what does this have to do with race? Are rual black people any less capabile then their white counterparts in getting I.D.'s?

#97 cw68

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 10:56 PM

Granted, This might be an issue for a miniscule portion of the rual population of the country, But what does this have to do with race? Are rual black people any less capabile then their white counterparts in getting I.D.'s?

1. Minorities are still more likely to be impoverished than whites (Voter Rights Act issues), and 2. I don't care the number of Americans who are being denied their rights, we should not be OK with denying ANY Americans their rights. Our rights are what makes our country so great. We fail when we infringe upon those rights.

It KILLS me that Westboro Church does what it does, but I cannot support any efforts to stop them. They have the right to protest, even when common decency dictates otherwise.

Our rights are paramount.

#98 Homer

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 11:30 PM

1. Minorities are still more likely to be impoverished than whites (Voter Rights Act issues), and 2. I don't care the number of Americans who are being denied their rights, we should not be OK with denying ANY Americans their rights. Our rights are what makes our country so great. We fail when we infringe upon those rights.

It KILLS me that Westboro Church does what it does, but I cannot support any efforts to stop them. They have the right to protest, even when common decency dictates otherwise.

Our rights are paramount.

I agree with you that no one should be denied their rights. I just don't agree with your premise that our society is based on racism.

#99 cw68

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 11:33 PM

I agree with you that no one should be denied their rights. I just don't agree with your premise that our society is based on racism.

I don't think our society is based upon racism, though it realistically pervades all of our thoughts (honesty). I do, however, think that racism - or perhaps classism - is the basis (excuse?) for voter ID requirements and registration "reform."

#100 Homer

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Posted 30 August 2012 - 11:48 PM

I don't think our society is based upon racism, though it realistically pervades all of our thoughts (honesty). I do, however, think that racism - or perhaps classism - is the basis (excuse?) for voter ID requirements and registration "reform."

Oh, Thats right your from Chicago, The birthplace of Alenskyite class and race division, Just not the way i see the world.

#101 cw68

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 12:12 AM

Oh, Thats right your from Chicago, The birthplace of Alenskyite class and race division, Just not the way i see the world.

Right. I'm from Chicago and we were force fed "Rules for Radicals" beginning from birth. That is actually laughable.

Alinksy wasn't EVER mentioned in my Eisenhower Republican household. My parents weren't from Chicago; they both grew up as unprivileged, rural poor whites in Illinois and West Virginia. I grew up in a town not disimilar from Folsom. Suggesting that I learned Alinsky, even associating me with him, is a huge stretch. I was raised in a very solidly Republican town (though oddly overwhelmingly Irish and Sicilian, not the usual Republicans) by the Greatest Generation. My father detested what the hippies stood for but was so proud and often praised that he fought for their freedom to be idiots because our rights were the most important thing. That has stuck with me. Rights above all. Equality for all.

#102 Rich_T

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 06:46 AM

No No No NO NO!!!
I was referring to the person you had responded to.

I said don't feed the troll!!!!

I actually find most of your discourse mind broadening....



Phew! Cool - because I couldn't figure out the reaction otherwise. :-) Thanks

#103 Carl G

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 07:11 AM

Thank you. IMHO, this is an argument about rights. We hear over and over that it's such a small group of people, people who aren't up to snuff so who cares. I don't care who or how many, a right is a right. It's never OK in my book to deny Americans their rights.

I disagree. If I commit a felony and spend time in prison I loose my right to vote. If I'm an abusive father, my parental rights may get stripped from me. There are legitimate reasons where Americans should and do have their rights terminated.

#104 cw68

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 08:20 AM

I disagree. If I commit a felony and spend time in prison I loose my right to vote. If I'm an abusive father, my parental rights may get stripped from me. There are legitimate reasons where Americans should and do have their rights terminated.

Losing vs denying. A different ball of wax.

#105 Carl G

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:24 AM

Losing vs denying. A different ball of wax.

Yes and no. While I understand your position, I take exception with my vote being diluted by those who don't follow the rules.




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