108 replies to this topic

[Robert Giacometti]

A few years ago when this was a hot topic, I was told that due to the foothills and angle of the runway and other airspace paths (?), the flight path couldn't really be shifted. I never really explored confirming this or not, but I just remembered hearing this

We all need to remember, that IF its possible to shift the flight path to S50, then that will affect those living S50 in RC who aren't under the flight path now.

I'm assuming the Airport has existing hours of operations. Its seems rather simple to enforce the existing hours with fines. There seems to be a reluctance by the BOS to do this.

[Dude]

Here's the 36 page draft letter from Folsom in Word format that was sent out yesterday. You'll have to click on the gray "Free Download" button to view it from http://www.4shared.c...mments__CA.html

Please let me know if it doesn't work, it's my first use of 4shared.

[25or6to4]

FedEx/UPS overnight or ground? Big difference

Both, or more like all 4, overnight, 2nd day, 3-day, & ground. Ground to San Jose is like overnight with UPS, but it takes FedEx 2-3 days, go figure.
When an East coast customer wants their $10,000 widget ASAP, they don't bat an eye paying $40 to overnight it when it costs $8 by ground and takes a week?

[25or6to4]

That must be a very very small widget if its only $40 to overnight it.

< 1 pound,
box & foam padding probably weigh as much or more than the widget itself.

[Dude]

I'm just totally against anything that leans toward a more industrialized Folsom.

[Dude]

Contacts:
1. Senior Environmental Analyst, Marianne Biner, BinerM@SacCounty.net
2. Dist. 4 BOS, Roberta MacGlashan, macglashanr@saccounty.net
3. Dist 5 BOS, Don Nottoli, nottolid@saccounty.net

[Robert Gary]

I'm assuming the Airport has existing hours of operations. Its seems rather simple to enforce the existing hours with fines. There seems to be a reluctance by the BOS to do this.

The airport is 24x7. The FAA funds it 18 hours a day. The county funds the remaining in order to enforce the noise abatement procedure.

-Robert

[SacKen]

A few years ago when this was a hot topic, I was told that due to the foothills and angle of the runway and other airspace paths (?), the flight path couldn't really be shifted. I never really explored confirming this or not, but I just remembered hearing this

We all need to remember, that IF its possible to shift the flight path to S50, then that will affect those living S50 in RC who aren't under the flight path now.

I'm assuming the Airport has existing hours of operations. Its seems rather simple to enforce the existing hours with fines. There seems to be a reluctance by the BOS to do this.

They did it before. The difference is not the terrain, but primarily the skill of the pilots and possibly the abilities of the aircraft relative to the weight they are carrying (not really sure how they differ from what landed during the military days). The military had no problem telling their pilots to fly along HW50 on approach. Fed Ex and UPS want their pilots to glide in a straight and gradual as possible, probably on auto-pilot.

Also, in the past (from what I learned during the debate a few years ago), the flight path was truly along HW50 and not south of it. So no additional homes would be affected, especially EXISTING communities. Frankly, I have no problem if they skim S50 at 1500 feet because no community exists there yet and they would know the situation prior to building and buying. Future communities would not have the issue of dramatically changing flight path and frequency after the community was already in place.

[SacKen]

A plane came screaming in this morning at 3:55 AM. Ugh...

I'm technically closer to the planes than you by, I'm guessing, about 100 feet . With my windows closed, I have never had a plane wake me. I do hear them, but only a couple of them seem to come in much lower than they probably should and are loud enough to get my attention (usually the 9:15pm flight... they come in a lot lower and/or are a louder aircraft).

I've really paid attention lately and the road noise from the main roads around us, especially the effing Harleys, are louder and much more frequent than the planes.

Granted, I love planes and my college dorm was literally right next to a commercial runway and I watched them from the window. So maybe my sound filter is a little skewed.

[Sandman]

I'm technically closer to the planes than you by, I'm guessing, about 100 feet . With my windows closed, I have never had a plane wake me. I do hear them, but only a couple of them seem to come in much lower than they probably should and are loud enough to get my attention (usually the 9:15pm flight... they come in a lot lower and/or are a louder aircraft).

I've really paid attention lately and the road noise from the main roads around us, especially the effing Harleys, are louder and much more frequent than the planes.

Granted, I love planes and my college dorm was literally right next to a commercial runway and I watched them from the window. So maybe my sound filter is a little skewed.

What can I say I am a light sleeper and we do like to leave some windows open at night.

I agree though the Haley's running along E. Bidwell are obnoxiously loud up on the hill where we live. I believe it is primarily due to the way the Palladio was built and how they put the parking garage right along the street. Everything bounces off of the big concrete walls right up onto the hillside. The trees they are starting to plant along Bidwell may help but it is going to be years before they ever get big enough to help knock down any of the sound.

[SacKen]

What can I say I am a light sleeper and we do like to leave some windows open at night.

I agree though the Haley's running along E. Bidwell are obnoxiously loud up on the hill where we live. I believe it is primarily due to the way the Palladio was built and how they put the parking garage right along the street. Everything bounces off of the big concrete walls right up onto the hillside. The trees they are starting to plant along Bidwell may help but it is going to be years before they ever get big enough to help knock down any of the sound.

Agreed! I also get annoyed with all the kids that floor it from every red light in the area at night.

And what's with the train whistle I hear about once a day or more?!??! I have no clue what it is or where it is coming from. Some ghost train or something? It doesn't sound like any kind of truck horn I've ever heard.

[Sandman]

Agreed! I also get annoyed with all the kids that floor it from every red light in the area at night.

And what's with the train whistle I hear about once a day or more?!??! I have no clue what it is or where it is coming from. Some ghost train or something? It doesn't sound like any kind of truck horn I've ever heard.

Oh that damn air horn I have heard it too. Started in teh past couple of weeks and it sounds like it is coming from over by Toby Keith's. I think it might be an air horn on somebodys truck that works there but I could be wrong. If I find out who/what it is we are going to have a few words

[Robert Gary]

They did it before. The difference is not the terrain, but primarily the skill of the pilots and possibly the abilities of the aircraft relative to the weight they are carrying (not really sure how they differ from what landed during the military days). The military had no problem telling their pilots to fly along HW50 on approach. Fed Ex and UPS want their pilots to glide in a straight and gradual as possible, probably on auto-pilot.

The path is assigned by ATC. Weather and ATC workload greatly affect the paths that are available. If the pilot can visually see the airport from Folsom it is allowable to have a less than direct approach if ATC requests. However, the pilot is always the final authority and can refuse. The straight in approach is the safest, the autopilot knows how to fly it, it ensures terrain clearance, etc. As a result, the straight in approach for 22L ILS was greatly increased about 3 years ago so aircraft are about 6800ft over Cameron Park and about 5000 feet over Folsom.

Military style approaches are not an option. The military risk analysis is very much different than civilian operations. In the civilian world, straight and stable approaches are required. Military pilots are trained for scenarios in which they may have to avoid enemy fire outside the airport area and therefore require a steeper approach in with more low altitude banking.

Because this is a cargo airport many of the flights arrive at night or early morning since the delivery trucks are loaded in the morning for routes.


-Robert

[Robert Gary]

BTW: Its worth noting that a new arrival procedure was released on the 20th of September that puts aircraft well south of 50. The procedure does require advanced navigation equipment on the aircraft. Its also far enough South that it may be uncommon for ATC to assign it for aircraft not coming from the South.

-Robert