125 replies to this topic

[Lembi Resident]

We, the members of the citizen's advisory group, have been wondering the same thing. What WILL the City do? It has been nearly 4 weeks since the Mayor and Council members assured us that they take our traffic problems seriously, and would work with us to find solutions. The increased police presence has been nice, but it is not nearly enough.

Well.........We've been waiting rather patiently. It is too bad that you need to be a squeeky wheel to get the attention you were promised.

Orangetj - I sent you an email message regarding an upcoming meeting. Hope you can join us.

[Sibley Resident]

I can't help from being frustrated and angry. One minute I feel like they are trying to help us the best they know how and that they are concerned and are working hard. Then the next minute I feel that they are not getting it, that they don't even feel that we have a problem or if we do they are not going to do anything about it and that they are ignoring us and just trying to get us to go away. Sometimes they do things that look like they are going to help us and then other times they do things that will directly effect us and hurt our neighborhood. I don't know if they know it will hurt us and they just don't care or if they just don't consider it and are unintentionally doing so.

Every time we turn around we feel like we are on the defense. I have to say there have been a few times that I felt like we were on the same side and working as a team. However, for the most part I feel like we are on opposing sides. This may be wrong or it may be right but when you deal with something like this, and you feel that there is a very serious threat to your family, your emotions are all over the board. Today, in one day we recieve an email after 3 weeks to tell us that they will be coming up with a date soon to meet with us. There is a small part of me that is hopefull and grateful that we might be moving forward and believe they do understand. Then there is a part of me that is angry and can not understand why it is that it has taken so long just to recieve an email saying we should hopfully come up with a date soon, still do not even have a date and it's been over 3 weeks. This email alone through my emotions in two different directions.Than this afternoon I found out that they were going to close Glenn for RT while laying the tracks instead of treating it the same way they treated Blue Ravine, working on it overnight. Instead they were going to run the traffic through our neighborhood, whether they intended this to happen or not, this is what would have happened to us. A significant portion of those that use Glenn would have continued on through our neighborhood to use Bidwell and Natoma. As they tried to escape the congestion on Sibley they would devastate all of the surrounding streets. It's not like we are not already dealing with this, but we don't need them adding to it. Again I'm angry and are convinced they don't get it and have to ask myself why they would do this to us, if they believed we had problems and want to help us. We then got to stew in those emotions for a while, wondering what are they doing, then this evening we recieved an email saying no, no they have worked with RT and has changed it to be treated like Blue Ravine. Wow, Thank God, their getting it, there helping us, we have hope again. My point is, in one day we went from one extreme to the other atleast 4 times and this has been happening for a very long time. How many emotional roller coasters are we suppose to handle before we become angry, mistrusting, confused, synical, etc.... I just have no idea how to feel anymore. It's that old saying, actions speak louder than words. This has been a very difficult, long and emotional process and we still have no results from our efforts.

Spring and summer are coming and our children will not be able to ride their bikes, or ride their skateboards, or play with their friends in our neighborhood. We will not be able to open our windows or doors to enjoy the beautiful days and so much more. This is hard and it is heartbreaking. We just had a vehicle vrs bicyclist (child) accident here on Valentines Day. The child was riding his bike in one of the alleys and came out on Sibley and hit a car driving by. Thank God it wasn't just a few seconds different or the car would have hit him. Residential neighborhoods generally have and should have kids on bikes, kids on skateboards, kids playing, people walking and etc... Kids make mistakes though, especially on their bikes, skateboards or maybe chasing a ball and most of the time they do not have deadly consequences, maybe broken bones or scrapes or bruises but nothing they can’t survive from, however, in this neighborhoods circumstances, it will not be long before it will be very serious or deadly. If the cut through traffic were not here, then it would significantly reduce the chances of a simple child’s mistake being deadly. There is a significant difference in those chances between 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000, 7000 or 8000 vehicles. There is also a significant difference not only if the volume was cut down but if the speeds were. The city has documentaion that the 85th percentile of the vehicles using this road are at 41mph. That is over 15 miles an hour over the speed limit. This is very deadly and you mix that with the volume and a residential neighborhood and it is only a matter of time.

I just wish I could believe the city, to take them at their word and trust that they will do the right thing for us, but after everything we have been through, I think I would be a fool for doing so. I wish I could feel differently and maybe I should, but I don't.

Thanks for listening to me vent.

[tessieca]

QUOTE

Spring and summer are coming and our children will not be able to ride their bikes, or ride their skateboards, or play with their friends in our neighborhood.

You might want to take advantage of the skateboard park and the multitude of other parks throughout the city that will allow for safe play without concerns about kids running/riding in the streets.

[Sibley Resident]

I don’t know how to take this, is this a serious statement trying to figure out how to help or sarcastic. The fact that our kids cannot even ride their bike/walk/skateboard 2,3,4,5, houses down the street is ridiculous. I can’t believe anyone would suggest that they shouldn’t be able to and because of circumstances in this neighborhood right now they can’t, even semi-safely. Wow, if you where trying to help with ideas thanks, but this is a neighborhood and the children and adults should be able to walk, jog, ride their bikes, etc…. in a neighborhood without having to pack your kids up in the car every time to take them someplace else, they should be able to do this here. I’m not going to get into a debate about this because there are at least a 100 things wrong with what is happening here and a substantial amount of them have already been said. This is only one issue and I know that everyone seems to think that we are the ones that should be put out of our own neighborhood so others aren’t. This is really said.

[bordercolliefan]

I don't intend to minimize your additional concerns about traffic volume and speed.

However, just on the issue of pedestrian and child safety, has there been any consideration given to installing sidewalks?

The fact is, any neighborhood without sidewalks is dangerous, regardless of traffic volume. I know some people think that not having sidewalks is "rustic" and "charming" -- but in my opinion you take your life in your hands any time you want to walk the dog or take your kids for a walk.

[Sibley Resident]

Thank You BorderCollieFan,

Getting sidewalks put into the Historic District would be more than an uphill battle. There have been many that have tried before and I'm sure there will be many that will continue to try. However, sidewalks alone brings in 50 different problems all of it's own. When this area was built, there were no codes strictly followed, all you had to do is take a case of beer down to the permit office and get your permit signed off. For instance my carriage house (looks kind of like a garage), which has been here for 70 years was built on our private property and city property. My home is not the only one built this way, there are many. Some of the homes are built less than a foot or two from city property, we have trees that are over 75, 100 etc.. years old that would either have to be removed (which is not an option)or worked around. The power poles and lines would all have to be moved the sewer system would need to be fixed. Sidewalks could help our drainage system that needs serious help. We also have a serious parking problem here and some of these homes have only one parking spot on their property, some have none and we all must use city property to park our vehicles. If the sidewalks take that parking away then we have nowhere to put the vehicles. After all of this, you would still need to work through aesthetic looks of the sidewalks (maybe cobblestone, gravel, etc...), Concrete sidewalks just do not fit in with the Historical neighborhood. This is only some of the issues. I'm strongly against concrete sidewalks in here like most residents, I would support and maybe others would, if they came up with something that would not take away from the neighborhoods History, or Historical look, then maybe some including myself would support them, but their are still a lot of other issues that would need to be dealt with. No one wants a sidewalk a foot from their door (if they don't have children we certainly wont get their support) and the other issues of the trees, buildings located on both city and private, parking so on and so on. It may help our situation with some of the safety concerns, However not all the safety issues and the long list of other issues, I don't believe it would even be a semi quick fix, to one of our problems, but I really do appreciate you suggesting something and want to thank you for that.

[Prairie Oaks Agitator]

I attended the Tuesday 2/24 City Council Meeting and saw a few Sibley area residents address the Council, (and wondered if one of them may be our own Sibley Resident (?)) they did well expressing frustration & challenging the Council for more action. If I followed the discussion correctly, Council Members Andy Morin and Kerri Howell are going to be meeting with the Sibley folks. This is good. In my dealings with the City, I have found Kerri Howell to be very responsive to & involved with residents' concerns. I have not worked with Andy Morin, but seem to remember hearing similar comments from other folks. Also, count me in the "Mark Rackovan Fan Club". Our Senior Traffic Engineer does a really good job for the City and the Citizens. As totally frustrating as the situation is, and the unholy heck of our traffic problems, I encourage you to keep on, continue "agitating", if I may say so.


Edit: 'unholy HECK'?!?!?!?? My goodness, "heck" is definitely NOT what I typed......

[Sibley Resident]

I was definitely there. I’m beginning to feel like City hall is my second home. I greatly appreciate your words here more than you could ever know. As you could probably tell we are extremely frustrated and feel that we have been put through the ringer more than a few times. I have to hope that Council members Morin & Howell will be able to help us and that this will be the last process that we will have to go through to receive some real results. Unfortunately, I’m not to hopeful at this point, I’m not sure how we can come up with a solution, when so far we don’t even agree what the problem is. That seems like it would be a problem to me, but who knows, maybe will be able to work it out. I must say again, seeing your post here really does warm my heart. I can’t thank you enough for it. We are all needing some encouragement right now. We have been feeling pretty battered and abused. Thank you,

[tony]

Sidewalks: there are 50 reasons, as Sibley resident says, not to put them in. In my opinion, all 50 of them are merely design issues that can be worked out to the overall betterment of the neighborhood. I'lll address a couple of them:

Parking: while installation of sidewalks might eliminate some of the head-in parking people now have, it wouldn't necessarily have to. Diagonal parking could allow room for both the sidewalk and the parking in many locations (with the sidewalk either on the street side of the parking or on the property side. Sidealks (and improved drainage) could actually increase the amount of on-street parking by eliminating the drainage ditches that prevent parking in some areas. At any rate, the parking situation now severely detracts from the attractiveness of many parts of the HD.

Historic Character: Which two streets in the HD have the most recognizable historic character? Certainly Sutter St., and I would argue Natoma, between Reading and Riley. It's amazing how many recently and beautifully restored houses there are in that stretch of Natoma (especially with the amount of traffic on it). And what else do these two streets have in common? Yep, sidewalks throughout. And with the exception of the boardwalk on the south side of Sutter between Wool and Riley, they are all concrete sidewalks. In fact, a walk through the entire HD will show you that there are sidewalks on most of the streets there; but they are discontinuous, spotty and haphazard in their locations. Even Sibley street has no less than seven stretches of sidewalk between Glenn and Natoma, and even more north of Natoma. What is not historic are the randomly parked cars that force pedestrians out into traffic and detract from the beautiful yards and houses they hide. New concrete sidewalks don't have to look like they belong on some Empire Ranch cul-de-sac. The city even has a standard for "historic" sidewalks that was used on Riley and behind the sound wall along Folsom Blvd. between Leidesdorff and Sutter, among other places.

Safety: even if the Sibley closure were put in, no part of Sibley would be safe for small children to bike or walk by themselves. It's too narrow and there will always be some significant level of traffic, except within a few hundred feet north of the closure. Unless you live on a cul-de-sac, your small children are not going to be playing or riding their bikes in the street.

So here's my suggestion: recognize that the chances of getting Sibley closed are somewhere near zero, and take your eggs out of the closure basket and start working on other solutions that will improve the situation without comlpetely eliminating the traffic. If you press the all or nothing scenario, you may end up with nothing (which is what you've got right now). Push the city for a comprehensive project for streetscape improvemnts on the affected streets (maybe in the entire HD). These could include all or some of the following: traffic calming measures (other than diverters and closures), sidewalks, bike lanes (on Sibley and Bidwell), well-defined on-street parking (maybe diagonal in spots), permit parking for streets north of Natoma, maybe period lighting. Now's your chance to get the city to pay for things (in the name of traffic mitigation) that they otherwise would likely make you pay for yourselves (sidewalks are usually paid for by the adjacent property owners, but in the name of traffic safety, the city might find a grant ot pay for them, or maybe use redevelopment funds) and improve your property values at the same time.

One final thought on sidewalks: they are not primarily for the benefit of the adjacent property owners. Like the streets they abut, sidewalks are there for the safety and convenience of all the city's residents who might desire to walk down your street. Try to look at the big picture: there is no reasonable alternative to Sibley for pedestrians traveling from Bidwell to Glenn and points between. Pedestrians deserve a safe place to walk. If there werwe better pedestrian facilities, there would be less traffic, too. And sidewalks on Sibley and Mormon would nicely show off that nice new white picket fence at the corner!

[Sibley Resident]

I’ve been waiting for this, sorry so long but I had to try and address every issue and I know I still didn’t.

Tony, I appreciate your thoughts on the sidewalk issue, and keep going with your fight in getting them put in here. You have extensive obstacles to pass and like I have said, I’m not a 100% against them, but they would have to be done right (not concrete, just because these other streets were not done right, does not mean you just continue doing them that way) and all of the issues that would come with them would need to be addressed first. The money for this should be coming out of the redevelopment money, money that is intended to revitalize this area, if not for this, than what? There is going to be an uphill battle getting them in here in the fist place, but when you tell the residents that they will have to pay for something that the majority do not want and is going to take a considerable amount away from them, good luck.

In regards to Sibley EVA only, that we have asked for at Lembi, if you remember our thought process was never strictly a closure. We purposed two plans. That is what we were driven to when the Traffic Safety committee nixed everything else we purposed. We tried to address other issues outside of our neighborhood that was causing these problems for us. Like the fact that when you are coming off of Prairie City Road, there is one turn lane down Blue Ravine, two lanes that go straight. 90% of the time the turn lane has only 3 to 4 vehicles in it because no one can get into it once the traffic backs up. What this causes is only 3 or 4 vehicles to use Blue Ravine, while the other two lanes 25+ cars deep each go straight heading right for us. These 50+ vehicles or at least half, should be using Blue Ravine not our neighborhood, however I can’t blame them too much for this, because the design there encourages them to come right for us, mowing us over. We wanted to see that second lane either turned into a Left turn only (until Sibley between Blue Ravine and Glenn was widened and Glenn to handle this traffic) or a turn and a straight. This would either force them or give the opportunity, to use Blue Ravine instead of our neighborhood. Then the Glenn and Sibley light could go in controlling a significant amount of the rest of them by forcing them to go down Glenn. Between the two lights this would have reduced a significant amount of the cut through traffic we are dealing with, however it does not address Lembi but would have helped significantly. We looked at a multitude of things outside of the neighborhood that is causing our problems, however, we were told in our meetings, only to concentrate on our neighborhood and not the rest of the city. That really limited our options. Remember, there were two maps we purposed one was a closure and the other map was an extensive diversion map, to reduce the amount of traffic and speeds, that map included a significant amount of these other traffic calming measures you are talking about, we already did that and the traffic safety nixed us on it. Speeds are an issue, Safety is an issue, and as much as everyone seems to want to ignore it, volume is a significant issue, it is, what is causes a significant amount of the other two issues. There is a big difference between a 1000 speeding vehicles and 6000 speeding vehicles when it comes to the speed issues and safety. As I will say again, what is happening here does not strictly affect Sibley; you are not only allowing the destruction of one residential street (which everyone seems to think is just fine to sacrifice us in our own homes not to be slightly inconvenienced to drive the two blocks around) but the destruction of an entire neighborhood. I must say, we are not the ones that are being narrow minded about the subject, but those that are so focused on just Sibley (which is the catalyst that is causing problems for every other street in this neighborhood as people are using them now to get to and from Sibley) and the EVA that was purposed are the ones that are having a hard time broadening their minds. The EVA only we asked for at Lembi and Sibley was well thought out, with what we had to work with and would have benefited every street in this neighborhood and would have provided our emergency vehicles access a better response time since they would not be impeded by the bumper to bumper traffic on Riley, Folsom Blvd and Sibley and would have provided better safety for everyone, not even just us. Know one knows better, what the problems are in this neighborhood than the residents and know one wants all of them fixed more than we do.

Safety in this neighborhood does not strictly consist of pedestrian safety, and the fact that this does not address the 100 other issues including other safety issues, I’m not convinced that sidewalks, is where we should be focusing our time (something that will take years if not a decade to do and solves one problem). Getting the volume down on the other hand helps us, does not solve everything, but helps us on every issue we have.

I must say I seem to be a little more consistent, fighting for the minority than a lot of other people. I don’t change my position to suit myself. I’ve been consistent with my argument on the Sibley/Bidwell/Lembi issue, the pedestrian safety around the High School, even on Gay rights. I’m not the one that is willing to fight for the minority on one issue and then sell the minority out to the majority on another issue. I must say you are consistent on fighting for pedestrian/bicyclist safety but it would be nice to see you extend that to other safety issues, because their are other safety issues here.

I made another post after this one and it is important to read that in conjunction with this one(top of pg 6).

[Sibley Resident]

Tony, at the end of my last post, I feel like there was a little bit of a personal attack and I'm not happy about that. I want to apologize, because I do know how hard you have worked on not only Pedestrian/Bicycle safety but have tried to get the police to enforce in this neighborhood and even though you did not vote with us, you were the only one trying to get the Traffic Safety Committee / Police Dept to help us on the speed issue and have tried making other suggestions. I do thank you for that and again apologize. I know my last statement is not accurate in reflecting you. I'm just frustrated and I took it out on you. Sorry

[Animal]

It is good to hear that Kerri Howell is responsive to city issues. I trust that she and Andy will make a good faith effort to work with the neighborhood traffic group to come up with some acceptable adjustments that will help with the horrible traffic on Sibley and surrounding streets. We (the residents) have done our part; it is time for the city council to step up and work with us on this issue. The dam road will not be opened until 2005 and a new bridge not built until 2007; that is at least 3 more years of congestion, pollution, speeders, and the related health and safety issues that come with the huge number of cars now filtering through our neighborhood. We must work together to find a solution. These are our homes; we should be able to walk safely around our neighborhood, not get in a car and drive somewhere else to recreate. I will continue to do what it takes to get acceptable resolution and I trust my neighbors will also.

[Sibley Resident]

Animal, I'm trying to figure out who you are. I wonder if I know you, or you know me. If your comfortable with letting me know, can you PM me and tell me.

[Sibley Resident]

The reporter who contacted me yesterday said that the Feds are not going to make a desicion about re-opening the Dam Road until the environmental impact report comes back and that will not be till 2005. From what I got from the reporter it didn't mean that they were going to even open it then, just that they were not going to even consider the issue until then. Do you know if they do plan on opening it in 2005?

[billsfan]

I really cannot understand why people are cutting through residential streets to beat traffic. The traffic down Blue Ravine or Glenn to Folsom Blvd is really not bad at all compared to many long lines that I've spent in the streets of the Bay Area and Boston. I've traveled them at several different times (including rush hour) and rarely miss a light and usually travel at the speed limit down these routes. The majority appears to be bridge traffic which leads me to really not understand the long lines down Riley to get over the Rainbow Bridge. I save more time and avoid frustrating lines going down Blue Ravine to Folsom Blvd, then over Lake Natoma Crossing. Am I missing something here or is there some mystic quality that appeals to people to wait in lines to go over the Rainbow bridge everyday?