380 replies to this topic

[waterbaby149]

Go Grandpa Babe!!!
Well said

[rottonron]

The only way to solve this issue is to approach it the way it should have been approached from the start. The city should have consulted the Lions Club and the congressionally chartered Veterans orgaizations prior to making a decision. The city failed to consult with either one until they had already made a decision. Then this elected group of small town politicians did as usual and attempted to cram it down our throats. Then members of the City Council have the audacity to call the concerned voting constituants of this city malcontents. They then appoint a commitee , the majority of which support the council's position, to deal with Veteran's issues. The part that really struck a nerve is the committee chairman failed to explain any of what was discussed when he attended a joint veterans meeting. I personally believe that the City Council is only trying to build a memorial to themselves. I know for a fact the Veterans and the Lions are not anti libarary, only opposed to the proposed location. The City Council has made it clear through their actions that a recall or court injunction is the only way to reverse thier anti Veteran unilateral action.
In addition, the residents of this City should look at this location for some of the regular events that will have to be canceled. The City of Folsom will have to close the library during The Rodeo, or cancel the rodeo. The carnival will have to be relocated. The Renaissance Fair will have to be canceled. The location is bad for the simple fact that the traffic on Natoma Street is always congested since the Dam Road has been closed. The Majority of the residents do not live near the site. Most importantly it was dedicated to the memory of Marshall Farley and should not be desicrated by these so called public represenatives.

[rottonron]

I would like to address some of the things Candy Apple brought up.
#1 Anything Ernie Sheldon said about consulting the Veterans, did not include any of the Elected officials of any of the Veterans Organizations in Folsom.
#2 Mr Parks and Recreation himself told an untruth, about the Veterans ,The Field not being used, And as a member of the Parks and Recreation committee he should be attempting to create more Park areas not cover them up with buildings.

#3 The Field is in disrepair, but Parks an Recreation is responsible for maintaining it.

#4 Mr. Parks and Recreation apparently is unable to do his appointed job on the Parks and Recreation committee.

#5 Mr Sheldon is a veteran he says, well I think he is an embarassment to anyone who ever served this country in the armed forces.

#6 Mr. Sheldon and Mr. Spence should both resign from any and all committees.

I am not sure how many Folsomites are aware that the Veterans share the use of their building with the seniors for their lunch program.

That the Veterans give approximately 30 Scholarship a year.

The Veterans are active in numerous community events.

The Lions Club has been active in this community back when the City Councilmen were taking money out of their own pocket to keep this City going.

For your information the current VFW Commander donated his time and materials to provide power to Farley Field.

Folsom has not always had money, but could always work togeather.
Most new people moved here to get away from the bay area, and are now trying to make Folsom like the Bay area

[intelkid]

Isn't the Lion's club being sued over this...? I read that if this recall election goes through, they are liable to foot the bill for it, and they may get their charter revoked because it's against their by-laws to get involved with local politics.

[grandpa babe]

intelkid. You and Candy Apple must share from the same "facts" pool because your references have similar merit. First, I have been in touch with the Lions Club and I can assure you there is no lawsuit that they are aware of. There have been some inquiries lodged with Lions National and International, however, those inquiries have been addressed to the satisfication of all involved parties.

Specifically, it is not the Lions Club as a national organization that is helping to spearhead the recall effort. It is, however, the "members" of the local Lions Club that has formed the recall bond with the veterans. I hope you can understand the subtle difference.

In terms of who will pay the bill for the recall effort, I believe it is too early to make such a determination. If the recall effort should fail, there will be no expense except personal to the recallees. If the effort is successful, the recallees can always appeal to the state level for reimbursement.

As for the revocation of the local Lions Club charter, the Lions Club has not received any such notice from anyone except for a few "malcontents" that support the city park for the library location.

If you have specific questions that you would like to receive reliable facts on, please list them to me and I will be honored to do the research and respond accordingly.

[dave]

I understand the tremendous depth of feelings on this subject and am very appreciative of all things veterans have done for us. However, I must respond to the anti-Ernie Sheldon comments.

Ernie is a man of high integrity, is a veteran of 33 years in the Air Force, and has done more for sports and parks and youth sports in this town than anyone else by far. Without him, we would truly be in sorry shape. He brought about a park fee on new homes in 1992. Before that developers paid nothing towards new parks.

All people will eventually love the new library and new veterans memorial. It will be a big upgrade from a rock.

[dave]

And Farley field is maintained by Parks and Rec but it is like an old car or home. Eventually it gets too costly to maintain and needs to be completely redone. However, it is difficult to completely redo a field with park fees as they are often required to be spent on new parks in the new developments.

[NRB]

Grandpa babe,
You can blame the Sac Bee and not Intelkid or Candy Apple for the missinformation regarding the lawsuit because that's where I read about it and if it was in the Bee, I can assure you that the Lion's club has heard about it as well!

I would really like to understand why some of you are so angry about this. It can't be the memorial thing because even Farley's own relatives aren't upset about it. Do you have such a love for that softball field that you are willing to make Folsom wait even longer for an adequate library? Or am I missing something here? And if not in the park then where? Or maybe a better question would be when?

We needed a new library years ago. Enough is enough already, just build the darn thing! Of course that's just my opinion!

This thread is almost as tiresome as "gay marriage". Obviously we will not all agree on this and we should know by now that there's no changing anyones mind.

[grandpa babe]

Dave and NRB.

To Dave. As a 20 year veteran of the USAF myself and an E9 in grade, I have always maintained that you should look at anyone with more than 20 years in the military and at the top of their grade with a jaundice eye if they decide to stay beyond 20 years. To stay is to either retire on the job or to be less than qualified for outside employment. Your argument concerning Ernie (I don't know him) is less than convincing to the veterans who understand what it is all about.

To NRB. Let me start backwards to your reply. I liked your comment concerning being tiresome of "gay marriage." It is pretty tiresome to the vets and the Lions as well, but if it takes "queer shrimp" (I'm sorry I meant fairy shrimp) to stop the development of a building on our city park, then I am prepared to use whatever works.

As for your contention that there is no changing anyone's mind, I totally disagree. The whole existence of the veterans and the Lions is that "tomorrow is a better day based upon the sacrifices of today." As an example, yesterday the vets fed over 100 elderly residents of Folsom through our program of support to the elderly. Last night an Eagle Scout presented over 800 used eye glasses to the Folsom Lions Club to be used by those not fortunate enough to be able to buy their own prescription. These are the things that the veterans and the Lions do best and have for over 50 years of our community existence. Please don't consider us angry or upset, we understand our place in the community and would prefer that we spend our time doing what comes naturally and this recall does not come naturally to us, but we have no idea what else to do given the closed door policy of the city council.

I was pleased to find that you, intelkid, and Candy Apple all share the same factual data sheet...The Sacramento Bee. God knows if it is in The Bee, it must be correct and most times if it is a quote from our mayor it would be printed with his picture!! They truly are an authoritative source for the facts, however, if you want the facts on this issue you should converse with either the vets or the Lions because The Bee will only give you the mayor's picture and not in-depth reporter investigation.

[zach5]

QUOTE

I was pleased to find that you, intelkid, and Candy Apple all share the same factual data sheet...The Sacramento Bee. God knows if it is in The Bee, it must be correct and most times if it is a quote from our mayor it would be printed with his picture!! They truly are an authoritative source for the facts, however, if you want the facts on this issue you should converse with either the vets or the Lions because The Bee will only give you the mayor's picture and not in-depth reporter investigation.

I believe though, if you go to the Lions Club or the vets, you will only get their side of the story also.

[grandpa babe]

To Zach 5


B!!! S!!! B!!! S!!!.

I will tell you the facts even if it goes against our cause !!! Without credability we are nothing!!! On behalf of the vets and the Lions I will give you the facts as best I know them--- surely you do not ask for more than my honest knowledge or belief?

[john]

QUOTE (grandpa babe @ Mar 4 2004, 03:24 PM)

In terms of who will pay the bill for the recall effort, I believe it is too early to make such a determination. If the recall effort should fail, there will be no expense except personal to the recallees. If the effort is successful, the recallees can always appeal to the state level for reimbursement.

Are you sure about this? If there is a special recall for the city council, somebody has to pay for materials to send to residents, facilities to vote, etc... who do you think will pay for it? The taxpayers will, that's who. It's not like there's just a wad of magic cash floating around this state that's going to pay for it all.

[waterbaby149]

I don't know grandpa babe but I think all of these library people just want to believe what is easier for them than to find out the facts themselves - to them the Vets and Lions are just stupid people
They fail to recognize that the Vets and the members of Lions, are long standing members of this community who own, live and work in business, i.e., we are business owners, property owners, and yes homeowners - we are not drunks living under a bridges
so wake up and realize that u just might be being feed a bunch of bull
by the city council
I have always tried to keep an open mind in that there is always more than one side to an issue
Unplug your minds and your ears and start listening
Just because the Sacramento Bee, the City Council or Candy (sorry forgot Mr.Sheldon) .... say it doesn't make it true

One point that has been missed is the complaint that the field looks so bad - well the vets and the lions fixed it once - it can be done again -that is community involvement

I came here from Auburn where we stopped Walmart, Home Depot and other large deveopment - yes this is David vs. Golith but it has been done before and it can be done again

So read those Petitions - they are in your local Folsom businesses and if you are a resident of Folsom and over the age of 18, and you agree with the recall position - then sign and make your city council responsible to you the taxpayer

[grandpa babe]

[FONT=Arial][SIZE=7]

John, it is true!!!

It is true, somebody or bodies will pay if we collect 6000 signatures for each
recallee. That is a lot of names and inconvenience of Lions, veterans
and the public at large. However, we believe we are well on our way and we have another 10 weeks to work our magic and we are confident that the recall will receive sufficient signatures to put this thing on an early ballot prior to November. Our real concern is that no ground is broken on our city park prior to the recall otherwise we will be pleased to forgo a special election and wait until November. Unfortunately, we do not have that option.

[Steve Heard]

waterbaby

So now you're comparinig the library with Walmart?