343 replies to this topic

[camay2327]

Tony, put yourself in the place of the husband that just lost his wife and the children that just lost their mother.

Now answer again.....


These boy need to pay if they are found guilty of causing this death.

They need to be charged as adults too.

[Robert Giacometti]

Tony, put yourself in the place of the husband that just lost his wife and the children that just lost their mother.

Now answer again.....
These boy need to pay if they are found guilty of causing this death.

They need to be charged as adults too.

I hear you Cal.

I have been trying to encourage everyone to make an informed decision based upon the facts and not emotional reactions based upon news accounts using hot button phrases.

When you are given the opportunity to drive a vehicle, there comes a responsibility with that privledge. If you ignore your responsibility and cause injury or death then there needs to be consequences for your actions.

Society will be better served if everyone recognizes there are consequences to someone's actions and you will be held accountable. Unfortunately, we all know that standard seems to get selectively enforced.

It is a very sad & tragic story no matter how you look at it.

[tony]

Tony, put yourself in the place of the husband that just lost his wife and the children that just lost their mother.

Now answer again.....
These boy need to pay if they are found guilty of causing this death.

They need to be charged as adults too.

Yep, if guilty, they do need to pay. But my conclusion is the same. No amount of punishment will bring back the lost wife, mother and teacher. And ruinng the young man's entire life will merely guarantee that no good can come of this tragedy. With adequate time to ponder the consequences, and perhaps a permanent financial burden after getting out, I'd venture to to predict that even a reckless, callous, stupid teenage boy would, upon reaching adulthood behind bars, be a prime candidate for coming out of prison having learned very valuable lessons and be far less of a threat than when he commited his tragically stupid act, and would, in fact, turn out to be a far better citizen than if he had never committed his crime. If you leave him in there too long, he's much more likely to succumb to the rot that permeates the prison system and become a permanent menace to society.

Remember, we are presuming a kid with no prior record, who until Saturday presumably had a bright future ahead. Assuming the callous stupidity does not continue thorugh a trial, it seems reasonable to me (yes, trying to see through the eyes of the husband of a loving career 2nd grade teacher -- someone who presumably was adept at seeing the future potential of her students) that the kid's future should be derailed, but not completely ruined. We are presumably not talking about a premeditated murderer, a career criminal, a general miscreant. All indications are we are looking at tragically stupid teenagers who are only incrementally more irresponsible than thousands of other apparently upstanding citizens who routinely speed, tailgate and read newspapers while driving. It's not that I think they deserve leniency, but merely that I don't see the good that comes from locking people up and throwing away the key for such a crime. This certainly seems like the appropriate time for those of us who (statistically, a majority of us) consider ourselves Christians to ask what Jesus would do (rather than what he would or wouldn't drive). Not being an eye-for-an-eye kind of guy, I think he would look at the big picture and ask himself: would any good come from locking up a kid such as this for 25, 35, 45 years, life? I think the answer is, no. There is a big difference between appropriate punishment and vengeance. I'll leave the vengeance for God to deal with.

[LexHillsmom]

Remember, we are presuming a kid with no prior record, who until Saturday presumably had a bright future ahead. Assuming the callous stupidity does not continue thorugh a trial, it seems reasonable to me (yes, trying to see through the eyes of the husband of a loving career 2nd grade teacher -- someone who presumably was adept at seeing the future potential of her students) that the kid's future should be derailed, but not completely ruined. We are presumably not talking about a premeditated murderer, a career criminal, a general miscreant. All indications are we are looking at tragically stupid teenagers who are only incrementally more irresponsible than thousands of other apparently upstanding citizens who routinely speed, tailgate and read newspapers while driving. It's not that I think they deserve leniency, but merely that I don't see the good that comes from locking people up and throwing away the key for such a crime. This certainly seems like the appropriate time for those of us who (statistically, a majority of us) consider ourselves Christians to ask what Jesus would do (rather than what he would or wouldn't drive). Not being an eye-for-an-eye kind of guy, I think he would look at the big picture and ask himself: would any good come from locking up a kid such as this for 25, 35, 45 years, life? I think the answer is, no. There is a big difference between appropriate punishment and vengeance. I'll leave the vengeance for God to deal with.

Very well said Tony...so refreshing to see when individuals actually internalize the spiritual teachings they purport to follow...

[Chad Vander Veen]

Very well said Tony...so refreshing to see when individuals actually internalize the spiritual teachings they purport to follow...

Why is a comment like that even necessary? It's rather appalling you'd seize a thread like this to make such a point.

[cw68]

Why is a comment like that even necessary? It's rather appalling you'd seize a thread like this to make such a point.

I don't see anything wrong with her post and most definitely don't see it as appalling. I think Tony made some good points (though they don't exactly mirror my feelings on the accident) and he showed compassion that comes from his spiritual feelings. I liked that LexHillsMom was giving him props.

[old soldier]

the facts are not all in. you had kids being dumb by racing, the concern over the old speakers rather than the victim doesn't speak well for the kids.

what will shake out is who they were and what kind of parents they have. when something like this happens the kids parents should share pretty much in the guilt. were the kids good students or in continuation school. were there any other history of disrespect for the law in their backgrounds.

for some folks the punishment might be living the rest of your live with the guilt of what you did. for others a little time behind bars might be a wake up call.

all of us who have been parents of boys during their foolish years probably when something like this happons think there but for the grace of god could have been us.

the old police need to ask if they are doing enough to stop racing kids. right before school I see a lot of them racing around. they might focus there rather than on folks making right turns on folsom

its bad when something like this accident happens but it sure has got a lot of folks thinking

[Robert Giacometti]

Yep, if guilty, they do need to pay. But my conclusion is the same. No amount of punishment will bring back the lost wife, mother and teacher. And ruinng the young man's entire life will merely guarantee that no good can come of this tragedy. With adequate time to ponder the consequences, and perhaps a permanent financial burden after getting out, I'd venture to to predict that even a reckless, callous, stupid teenage boy would, upon reaching adulthood behind bars, be a prime candidate for coming out of prison having learned very valuable lessons and be far less of a threat than when he commited his tragically stupid act, and would, in fact, turn out to be a far better citizen than if he had never committed his crime. If you leave him in there too long, he's much more likely to succumb to the rot that permeates the prison system and become a permanent menace to society.

Remember, we are presuming a kid with no prior record, who until Saturday presumably had a bright future ahead. Assuming the callous stupidity does not continue thorugh a trial, it seems reasonable to me (yes, trying to see through the eyes of the husband of a loving career 2nd grade teacher -- someone who presumably was adept at seeing the future potential of her students) that the kid's future should be derailed, but not completely ruined. We are presumably not talking about a premeditated murderer, a career criminal, a general miscreant. All indications are we are looking at tragically stupid teenagers who are only incrementally more irresponsible than thousands of other apparently upstanding citizens who routinely speed, tailgate and read newspapers while driving. It's not that I think they deserve leniency, but merely that I don't see the good that comes from locking people up and throwing away the key for such a crime. This certainly seems like the appropriate time for those of us who (statistically, a majority of us) consider ourselves Christians to ask what Jesus would do (rather than what he would or wouldn't drive). Not being an eye-for-an-eye kind of guy, I think he would look at the big picture and ask himself: would any good come from locking up a kid such as this for 25, 35, 45 years, life? I think the answer is, no. There is a big difference between appropriate punishment and vengeance. I'll leave the vengeance for God to deal with.

Tony, I don't claim to know what the sentence is for vehicular manslaughter, but I'm very sure its NOT 25 to 45 years.

I doubt very much if a first time offender in a case like this, where there may be questions about percentages of fault, would EVER get any type of sentence even remotely like what you are saying above.

Again, I too feel sorry for all the families involved. All families are going to be affected, to different degrees. However, there does need to be consequences for our actions.

IMHO, we need recognize that possibly it could have been one of us or a loved one in either vehicle and to use this tragic story as a reminder to slow down and to share with our children these stories, so maybe they realized they aren't invincible and there are consequences to their actions.

[camay2327]

Tony, if and when this goes to court, which it will, we will see what the father and children of this woman will have to say when they have their chance. Will they show mercy towards the two boys that were racing and the one that hit her, or will they tell the judge to put them away for as long as possible.

Sometimes people will agree with you and ask the judge to show them mercy and sometimes they won't.

What I could not stand was the mother, on TV, say that her boy just wouldn't do such a thing. She was not there and does not know what he did or would do.

[LexHillsmom]

Why is a comment like that even necessary? It's rather appalling you'd seize a thread like this to make such a point.

You misunderstood CV,..I was simply trying to say I admired Tony for his mindset because he mentioned he was a Christian... I wasn't slamming anyone else but I am sorry if it sounded that way...why the overboard reaction? Appalled...at what?

[mylo]

FTA: "Investigators said the teen and another 17-year-old were driving recklessly, racing at speeds approaching 80 miles an hour just before the crash."

...

2:45pm, on a Saturday. Iron Point is impenetrable around the outlets on a Saturday afternoon. What moron drives 80mph through that?

[crossski]

In seeing the read steatlth coupled with 190ft skid marks coupled with
witnesses observing them both weaving in and out of traffic all points to
street racing. Speeds undoubtedly well over 70mph- not hard at at being
its a long straitaway before hand and downhill.

These kids were doing somthing stupid-VERY stupid. They have themselves
to blame and their parents ARE also very responsible here. Would not be
surprised if wrongful death lawsuit is filed here.

Mom on the news was absolutely pathetic. no regard for the killed woman
just like the kids.

[Dave Burrell]

What moron drives 80mph through that?

One with a fast car and no brains

[FDNY343]

Let's see what happens with this case vs. what happened when Krug killed two kids (Jordan Barkey and Carly Baker) two years ago. Remember Krug, he got 90 days county jail and community service for killing two kids!?

[Al Waysrite]

Tony, I don't claim to know what the sentence is for vehicular manslaughter, but I'm very sure its NOT 25 to 45 years.

I doubt very much if a first time offender in a case like this, where there may be questions about percentages of fault, would EVER get any type of sentence even remotely like what you are saying above.

depending on the conviction it could be up to one year in county jail or 4, 6 or 10 years in prison.
(pc 193).