133 replies to this topic

[tessieca]

Or possibly would you be shocked to learn that the boy was arrested, read his rights and questioned by the Folsom PD for over an hour without his parents being called? I'll warrant that none of you with kids realize that the school and PD have this power.

How could he have been arrested without the parents being called?? The mom brought him there, so obviously she didn't need to be called about it.

Yes, it's true that the police can talk to your children without their parents knowledge. I advise my kids to refuse to speak to them without a parent present. This is a right. The police can question them, but they don't have to answer. Most kids don't know this, and even if they did I think it would be tough for a kid to say "no" to the police.

[idunno]

idunno,

Yes, I am a family friend and the parent of a student who is a witness to the events of the day. From the prior bullying on and off campus, to the scuffle at lunch, onto the taunting in the parking lot and ultimately the fight itself. You appear to be stating your beliefs with a conviction indicating that you may have seen the videos, read the police report, or are involved with the PD. Should you desire to put forth credible information here, please allow us to understand where your conviction stems from.
Old Soldier,

The term "submit" is a relatively new term used in the disciplines that have been bundled together for the mixed martial arts style popularized by the UFC and other full contact organizations.

A submission is achieved when a fighter has total control over his opponent whether by controlling limbs or locking joints. Submissions come in the disciplines of Brazilian Ju Jitsu through arm bars and leg bars, and Akido through joint locks, such as fingers, wrists or ankles. The art of grappling, or ground fighting, where students wrestle for a submission instead of a pin is taught in many of our local dojos. This is what is referred to as going to the ground in mixed martial arts.

As it is very difficult to achieve a submission on an aggressive, standing opponent, students are taught to strike their opponent quickly and then move in close, force the opponent to the ground and "mount" or sit astride the opponent and fight to put the opponent on the defensive. While the opponent is defensive, the one on top will grapple for position and lock onto a free arm, leg or joint and apply enough pressure to convince the other fighter that he should stop fighting.
Ducky and many others,

The public quickly latched onto the first reports, when the arrest occurred, accepting those reports as the absolute truth. Why do you have so much trouble now latching onto the facts presented by same media sources and the DA's office?

As quoted from then News10.net website:

"Two separate videos shot by witnesses at the scene did not provide the necessary evidence for a criminal prosecution, according to the Sacramento County district attorney's office."

"The evidence does not prove she (the mother) was doing anything other than encouraging him to defend himself," said Deputy District Attorney Lana Wyant. "Witnesses and both boys involved said the other boy threw the first punch."

"Nothing in the videos contradicts this version of events, according to the district attorney. While the video showing part of the fight does show the mother encouraging her son to fight, the evidence does not prove she was doing anything other than encouraging him to defend himself, the district attorney's office said."

From the Associated Press:

"But prosecutors said the video and witness accounts, while troubling, weren't enough to prove the charges. The decision came shortly before Honnold was to be arraigned.

The witnesses and Honnold say she drove her son to the gas station "so he could talk out the problems with the other boy," prosecutors said. "The evidence does not prove she was doing anything other than encouraging (her son) to defend himself. Both boys suffered minor scrapes, but neither claimed to be hurt."

I do have a connection with the PD and that is where i get my info. There are not two video tapes shot by witnesses, only one. the other is tape from another business. If she was not encouraging them to fight then why does she say in the video, when the other mom is trying to break it up...."let them fight". she is not saying, "let my son defend himself", nor is she saying "submit him"...she is clearly saying "hit him". and if she drove him there to talk, why did she not get out of the car and stop the fight when she saw it get physical...I have an idea why, because her kid was bigger and he is trained in Karate....also from what the witnesses say, her kid is the bully at school, not the little guy he wanted to fight.

As for the DA not contacting the "Independent Adult witnesses", the are lazy and wanted this to go away.......The witness statements were in the report. As for the tape...it will be out for everyone to see, even though the DA is fighting hard to keep it quiet.

Sorry Ragtop, your buddy made a bad choice and she got off because the DA was not interested in it!

[ducky]

idunno,

Yes, I am a family friend and the parent of a student who is a witness to the events of the day. From the prior bullying on and off campus, to the scuffle at lunch, onto the taunting in the parking lot and ultimately the fight itself. You appear to be stating your beliefs with a conviction indicating that you may have seen the videos, read the police report, or are involved with the PD. Should you desire to put forth credible information here, please allow us to understand where your conviction stems from.
Old Soldier,

The term "submit" is a relatively new term used in the disciplines that have been bundled together for the mixed martial arts style popularized by the UFC and other full contact organizations.

A submission is achieved when a fighter has total control over his opponent whether by controlling limbs or locking joints. Submissions come in the disciplines of Brazilian Ju Jitsu through arm bars and leg bars, and Akido through joint locks, such as fingers, wrists or ankles. The art of grappling, or ground fighting, where students wrestle for a submission instead of a pin is taught in many of our local dojos. This is what is referred to as going to the ground in mixed martial arts.

As it is very difficult to achieve a submission on an aggressive, standing opponent, students are taught to strike their opponent quickly and then move in close, force the opponent to the ground and "mount" or sit astride the opponent and fight to put the opponent on the defensive. While the opponent is defensive, the one on top will grapple for position and lock onto a free arm, leg or joint and apply enough pressure to convince the other fighter that he should stop fighting.
Ducky and many others,

The public quickly latched onto the first reports, when the arrest occurred, accepting those reports as the absolute truth. Why do you have so much trouble now latching onto the facts presented by same media sources and the DA's office?

As quoted from then News10.net website:

"Two separate videos shot by witnesses at the scene did not provide the necessary evidence for a criminal prosecution, according to the Sacramento County district attorney's office."

"The evidence does not prove she (the mother) was doing anything other than encouraging him to defend himself," said Deputy District Attorney Lana Wyant. "Witnesses and both boys involved said the other boy threw the first punch."

"Nothing in the videos contradicts this version of events, according to the district attorney. While the video showing part of the fight does show the mother encouraging her son to fight, the evidence does not prove she was doing anything other than encouraging him to defend himself, the district attorney's office said."

From the Associated Press:

"But prosecutors said the video and witness accounts, while troubling, weren't enough to prove the charges. The decision came shortly before Honnold was to be arraigned.

The witnesses and Honnold say she drove her son to the gas station "so he could talk out the problems with the other boy," prosecutors said. "The evidence does not prove she was doing anything other than encouraging (her son) to defend himself. Both boys suffered minor scrapes, but neither claimed to be hurt."

I guess I go with what makes the most sense. You have two adults who claim the mother was the one out of control (gas station owner and mother who was stopped from breaking up the fight.)

I have mixed feelings about the video being released. It may serve to justify the arrest in the first place, but at the same time it may cause further embarrassment to the boys involved, whom I have more sympathy for in making a youthful error in judgment that should have never risen to this kind of attention but for the involvement of the mother.

You are obviously a good friend to the family, ragtop, but your efforts are misplaced to try to justify what happened. In my humble opinion, the mother should be thanking her lucky stars that both boys only suffered minor scrapes and there were no major injuries over this foolishness.

[old soldier]

hey ragtop, thanks for the good post. when you get old and can call yourself "old ragtop" your wistom will be like that of the old soldier.

we still have facts to come out on this one...as it sits now, the old pd is calling the da stupid and the da seems to be calling the pd the same.

when the fight got going, if it was like an old dog fight, maybe a woman or a man might be afraid to jump in there and pull them apart.

[Ragtop78]

How could he have been arrested without the parents being called?? The mom brought him there, so obviously she didn't need to be called about it.

Yes, it's true that the police can talk to your children without their parents knowledge. I advise my kids to refuse to speak to them without a parent present. This is a right. The police can question them, but they don't have to answer. Most kids don't know this, and even if they did I think it would be tough for a kid to say "no" to the police.

Tessica,

I don't know what you mean by the mom brought him there? The fight was on Monday march 5th. On Thursday March 8th, She dropped him off at school, same as many of us do every day.

I know this because I have spoken directly with the boy:

He was called to the office on the morning of the 8th where the police placed him under arrest, read him his rights without explaining them and proceeded to question him for over an hour. When he asked if his parents had been called he was ignored, and the vice principle told him that if he had any questions that the vice principle would be his legal guardian. Obviously the mother was under suspicion at the time, but the father was at work and easily reachable.

This is not a case of the police simply questioning a child, which they can do anytime anywhere without parental consent. This is a case where he was acutally placed under arrest and read his rights. That is why it has shocked so many of us. As you stated, most kids would never consider saying "no" to a police officer.

You are a knowlegable mom and obvioulsy ahead of the game if you have told your children not to speak to the police without a parent present.

Supermom,

Yes, in the world of butterflies and gumdrops, the kids would have spoken like adults around a campfire and worked out their problems. In the real world boys still work out their problems with aggressive words and often with their fists.

The mom made a bad bad decision by assuming that if she was at the gas station that the boys would talk it out. She never should have driven him there, and should have gone directly to the school office. That is something that she will live with every day.

As to encouraging the children to have a fight? That clearly never happened. Encouraging her child during a fight, now that definetely did happen and the tale of the tape must clearly show it.

Having a shouting match with another adult in public being a misdemeanor? Most of you moms would be yelling at any parent who put their hands on your child whether it was during a fight or not. Especially one with shockingly dyed black hair, tatooes all over and multiple piercings. If that woman grabbed my kid I'd freak out too.

[Steve Heard]

Evidence? The statements from a handfull of 13 year olds and an incomplete video shot on a digital camera?

Would you be shocked to discover that the "bad mom" was never questioned by the police during their alleged investigation? Isn't she the ONLY adult witness to the entire event? The gas station attendent wasn't even there until the end, and the pierced woman only saw the end of the fight because it ended up in front of her car.
Or would you be more shocked to finally realize that the boy acted in self defense, the little girl said he was hit first in EVERY interview. Let's not forget that the mom drove her son the whole 40 feet from the school parking lot adjacent the gas station to where the other boy was waiting so that they could discuss their problems, not to fight. Maybe you missed that in EVERY newscast last Thursday.

Or possibly would you be shocked to learn that the boy was arrested, read his rights and questioned by the Folsom PD for over an hour without his parents being called? I'll warrant that none of you with kids realize that the school and PD have this power.

Friends, it is time to end this vilification of the woman. There was no crime commited and even the least accomplished arm chair attorney on this forum should finally recognize that fact.

Ragtop

This woman was wrong to drive her son to fight. Period. What if while defending himself against this bully he slipped and cracked his head open on the pavement? Would you still say she did nothing wrong?

Someone I know knows the family. She said that the boy was discussing that the kids openly fight at school. She asked if this was happening on campus, and he told her that no, they usually meet across the street. Less than a week later, he's involved in a fight across the street. I heard this the day after it happened, before any stories of him being victim of a buly.

Regardless, a parent would be right to teach a child to protect him/herself, and to respond to an attack, but absolutely 100% wrong to drive them to a confrontation where one or both of the children might get hurt.

No excuses.

[knowfolsom]

Old Soldier,

I generally like your wisdom and input and have just started reading My Folsom. However, I have to let everyone in on a little secret.

Real life police work is not like Law and Order, or CSI.

Things definitely do not work like they do on TV. Police can't solve crimes in one day. So please don't speculate and make the public think that everything works like it does on TV.

The Folsom PD really tried to work with the DA's office on this case, to help them out. The DA didn't want it.

The Folsom PD has a citizen's academy that is real eye-opener. It would be great if those regulars to My Folsom attended the academy and could share that knowledge with others visiting the site. The academy is open to anyone and is one night a week for a couple hours and really sheds light on what the police do in our town.

[old soldier]

thanks for the kind word knowfolsom and for the tip about police work.....I guess that all the stuff that Jack Baur does on 24 is also not true.

looking back at the old fight, kinda like gunfight at the ok corall, except the meeting was at the gas station and not the corall. I got to look at the other boy as well. seems like he could have stayed home and there would have been no fight....we would really have a whopper if his mom came with him as well. Instead of soccer moms we would have had warrior moms.

Now just thinking that if the other boy threw the first punch wouldn't he be an asserory to the crime?

the bust at school was ok I gues cause if they did it on the street they might have had to tow his bike.

I agree that mom did a stupid thing but the whole thing is kind of stupid. when I was a kid we had a bully and a couple of us snuck up on him and whacked him with a big stick and told him a stick took his size advantage away..

[ducky]

Wait! Real life police work isn't like on TV? You mean you don't wear stilletto heels and drive a Hummer working CSI?

I'm totally crossing that off my second-career list. Bummer.

[j5mann]

This mom is just flat out lucky.

Everyone knows what she did was wrong. Maybe next time instead of driving her son to the fight (I don't care if it's 40ft or 40 miles, like that makes any bit of difference???), she should drive back over to the principals office. At least he/she would be fully aware of the problem.

Now what exactly did she say, "Hit him" or Submit him"..........who cares!!!!!!!!!!!!! There both words of violence no matter how you slice it.

[Ragtop78]

Ragtop

This woman was wrong to drive her son to fight. Period. What if while defending himself against this bully he slipped and cracked his head open on the pavement? Would you still say she did nothing wrong?

Someone I know knows the family. She said that the boy was discussing that the kids openly fight at school. She asked if this was happening on campus, and he told her that no, they usually meet across the street. Less than a week later, he's involved in a fight across the street. I heard this the day after it happened, before any stories of him being victim of a buly.

Regardless, a parent would be right to teach a child to protect him/herself, and to respond to an attack, but absolutely 100% wrong to drive them to a confrontation where one or both of the children might get hurt.

No excuses.

Could you elaborate as to which child you are refering to at different points in your post? I'll call them Boy 1 (the larger boy who's mom drove him) and Boy 2 (smaller boy accused of throwing the first punch).

To the best of my knowledge Boy 1 has a history of being picked up every day in the overflow lot of Sutter Middle School by his mother and no history of meeting anyone anywhere to fight.

Boy 2 and his friends are often seen at the gas station after school.

[tessieca]

Boy 2 and his friends are often seen at the gas station after school.

Well that must make them automatic bullies. My son used to hang out there when the school was a high school. School administration actually kept an eye on kids hanging out there back then. I don't think anyone is too worried about middle school kids hanging out after school. They're not typically a high risk bunch. Maybe, when a parent gets involved and escorts her kid to a fight it's different.

[Steve Heard]

Could you elaborate as to which child you are refering to at different points in your post? I'll call them Boy 1 (the larger boy who's mom drove him) and Boy 2 (smaller boy accused of throwing the first punch).

To the best of my knowledge Boy 1 has a history of being picked up every day in the overflow lot of Sutter Middle School by his mother and no history of meeting anyone anywhere to fight.

Boy 2 and his friends are often seen at the gas station after school.

Boy 1 was the one talking to an adult about the fights that go on after school. I am told he was quite matter of fact about it, never mentioning being bullied or harrassed.

Mom should never have taken her son to a fight. That's all.

If you believe your son is being bullied, you deal with him first, then school administration, then the parents, then the cops.

[idunno]

we all would not be talking about this if the DA chose to word their statements differently. Instead the DA hung the police out to dry! The DA did tell the police that a crime was committed, but they chose not to take it to trial because they felt they could not get a jury to find the mom guilty. Instead the DA chose to say that a crime was not committed...wrong choice of words....

I am kind of angered at the response of the defense attorney....Mr. Heller... him calling the police "idiots" and saying they had no justification for the arrest is so unprofessional. I even heard that Mr. Heller has not even seen the video.....not cool HELLER!

The incident is over and I hope mom learned a lesson....it is to bad that the DA chose not to do anything about it......maybe it is time for SCULLY to go....

I would like to hear a resonse from RAGTOP when I think STEVETHEDAD asked, what if one of the boys got hurt? I hope i got it right?

[Ragtop78]

we all would not be talking about this if the DA chose to word their statements differently. Instead the DA hung the police out to dry! The DA did tell the police that a crime was committed, but they chose not to take it to trial because they felt they could not get a jury to find the mom guilty. Instead the DA chose to say that a crime was not committed...wrong choice of words....

I am kind of angered at the response of the defense attorney....Mr. Heller... him calling the police "idiots" and saying they had no justification for the arrest is so unprofessional. I even heard that Mr. Heller has not even seen the video.....not cool HELLER!

The incident is over and I hope mom learned a lesson....it is to bad that the DA chose not to do anything about it......maybe it is time for SCULLY to go....

I would like to hear a resonse from RAGTOP when I think STEVETHEDAD asked, what if one of the boys got hurt? I hope i got it right?

I am happy to reply.

If the boy who threw the first punch got hurt, then it's just to damn bad. He's a fine example of todays youth, bullying kids at school, provoking a fight off campus, having his best friends girlfriend prepared to film it, and then in front of an adult, attacking her child. Unfortunetely for him in this case he picked on a kid who knew how to fight and his got his arse kicked in front of l his friends. There are certainly discussions of this going on in that boys life and I can only imagine how his family is dealing with it. Wouldn't be to surprised if his father is looking into some boxing lessons for him. If you are gonna be a bully you better be able to back it up.

If the kid who was defending himself got hurt, well that's the breaks, when you flip the switch and choose to fight instead of walking away, you have to deal with the consequences. You might win, you might lose and you always run the risk of injury when you fight. I'm all for kids learning how to fight it out as long as it is with fisticuffs. Call me old school but this current wussification of American boys is getting way out of hand. The world is a violent place and we do our sons a disservice by putting blinders on and thinking that words will solve every problem.

idunno,

can you share with us your source for direct quotes like "the DA did tell the police that a crime was commited"? I'd be interested to hear just how far up the food chain that source is.

The sources for my information are the boys family, the boy himself, my sons friends, some of whom admit to bullying, taunting and intimidating the boy over the course of several weeks, and their parents. All of whom are continually discussing and debating this event to prevent another incident.

Stevethedad,

I have a pretty good idea who your source is for the information about the boy talking about the fights planned at the gas station. That would have been a conversation on the tuesday after the fight correct?

I know many of the boys involved in trying to goad others into fighting and have been working for a while now on stopping their ridiculous behavior.