122 replies to this topic

[Darthvader]

I am offended by obscenity. I find it coarse, crude, and unnecessary. If you can't find a legitimate argument, just spew filthy vitriol; that will do.

Total waste of bandwidth.

This may not be the place for such a proper person as yourself then. So do you know SPICY?

[bishmasterb]

oh thanks man, now you tell me....

its still the cooliest gadget ever

It's coolness factor outweighs its limitations I think for a lot of users (myself included). A few small software fixes will go a long way to making it more useful though, and I hope Apple isn't stubborn enough to implement them. Remember, this is the company (that I love) that STILL ships a one button mouse with their computers. They don't recognize when they're wrong very easily.

[DougP]

Remember, this is the company (that I love) that STILL ships a one button mouse with their computers. They don't recognize when they're wrong very easily.

I had planned to steer clear of this thread..... but four button mice have been a build-to-order option since 2005, and they've been standard since 2006. This whole "OMG they only ship ONE BUTTON MICE!?!?!" is a bit of folklore that needs to die.


Now if you had said "one button trackpad"... then I need to drag out the normal defenses of "just because you need two buttons on Windows, doesn't mean you need two buttons on a Mac -- the software is designed to not need it", or "just tap with two fingers instead of one".

[nj78]

It's my opinion that you should be ashamed to link to that site. It does not speak well of PC users.

He doesn't seem to be able to do what he brags about PC users being able to do, does he?

How dare you question the authority that is Maddox.

[nj78]

That would be a rather drastic measure, don't you think?

Honestly, it would help if you detractors actually knew what you were talking about.

Oh, but then you wouldn't be talking, would you?

Ok ok, touche. I didn't mention it was the card reader in the iBook, not the card.

[Darthvader]

How dare you question the authority that is Maddox.

Yeah, it's amazing how many "smart" people just don't get it.

[Ronda]

This may not be the place for such a proper person as yourself then. So do you know SPICY?

This place? Not so bad.

That place is quite another story.

Never heard of SPICY. (If he/she is a similarly profane person, I don't want to know him/her.)

[bishmasterb]

I had planned to steer clear of this thread..... but four button mice have been a build-to-order option since 2005, and they've been standard since 2006. This whole "OMG they only ship ONE BUTTON MICE!?!?!" is a bit of folklore that needs to die.

I think you might have misread my post. I didn't say they ONLY shipped a one button mouse, I said they STILL shipped a one button mouse. You are correct, you can get two button mice from Apple, as well as third parties, with the third party mice being available as far back as the eighties.

Apple's original argument for going one button in '84 was simplicity. Multi-buttons wouldn't be intuitive to new users. That argument made a LOT of sense...in 1984. Mostly because there was no standard for what the second (or third, fourth...) button did.

That all changed with Windows '95. There became a clear, intuitive use for a second button, which was to display a context sensitive menu when the right button is clicked on an object. (I'm not claiming that MS necessarily developed this concept, but Win95 was the first widely successful product that I remember having it.)

Now if you had said "one button trackpad"...

For purposes of this discussion, trackpad and mice are one in the same. We can say "pointing device" if you prefer.

then I need to drag out the normal defenses of "just because you need two buttons on Windows, doesn't mean you need two buttons on a Mac -- the software is designed to not need it", or "just tap with two fingers instead of one".

You need two buttons with Windows because Microsoft has (correctly) determined that right-click functionality is now integral to the GUI experience. Right-click is both intuitive and elegant.

I think Apple is so good at design that they unfortunately are slow to change sometimes. Proportional scroll bars also come to mind...what was it, System 9 before proportional scroll bars were made standard on the Mac? I forget exactly which OS version, but it was long after Windows had them as standard.

[LittleMike]

Wow I disagree with almost everything you said, I can't see how you really can make this argument. My only conclusion is that you somehow profit from PC's, which even if you did I don't think you would admit it.

Nope. Graphic designer and photographer.

Another fun fact if you want to compare apples for apples go to Dell or HP's website and look at the breakdown and compare it to an iMac.

If you want to compare apples to apples you'll compare a Mac to something like Alienware's products where it's all top of the line components. No one is interested in apples vs. apples. We are talking about typical Mac vs. typical PC.

It's not about being hip and cool it's about being able to get the job done and enjoy working on a computer.

With most Mac people it is about being cool, although they will never admit it. There may be some exceptions but most mac people to me come across as though owning a Mac is a badge of honor. It's not. It's a computer.

Yes it's amazing that on an iMac the entire computer fits in the monitor, I bet if you transported your computer like I do you would enjoy that cool feature to not to mention how much space is saved. Can it be done on a PC sure Dell did it, not nearly as nice as a Mac but they did it.

PCs have had that for YEARS. It's called a laptop. If you need mobility get one.

The iPhone is the best damn phone ever made, you are just plain in denial. Not only that but it's the 1st version wait until they come out with more updates.

It is quite possibly the coolest phone ever made but no phone that's been around < 6 months can or will ever be deemed the best phone ever made. You are proving my point that Mac people are all about being cool. I'll definitely be holding my breath for the updates

You may have a PC that doesn't crash often and runs fast but you are definitely in the minority when it comes to PC owners. When it comes to Mac owners they all love their macs because whether they are first time users or pros they always work and they don't get viruses, and we don't run anti virus software either. I'm glad a PC works for you though it didn't work for me and every other PC user I know. Keep what works for you and I will continue telling everyone else how a Mac can solve their PC problems, eemmmkay.

I meant to add this to my original post but got sidetracked...

A lot of the hype about how great Macs are and how horrible PCs are stems from the fact that hardly anyone uses and Mac and most everyone uses a PC. What is the Mac market share right now? 5%? 7%? Certainly not even close to 10%?

That means that for every 1 Mac person that has a problem there can be 9-19 PC users (depending on what market share you decide to give Apple) with a problem and it's still the same % of problems. I would bet that all things considered PCs are no more error prone than Macs.

Mac OS X Keyboard Shortcuts

Those are wonderful GENERAL shortcuts. Windows has many of those as well. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about MENU NAVIGATION through keyboard shortcuts. In most programs every menu item in a well designed PC program has a shortcut assigned to it. I'm using FireFox now and I can see:

File Edit View Go Bookmarks Tools Help

I can open any of those menus by pressing ALT and the underlined letter of the menu. I hit ALT F and the file menu opens. EVERYTHING under that menu has an underlined letter that can then be accessed by hitting that letter.

That's how I avoid using my mouse and saving time on a PC. I've tried every key combination I can think of and can't do it on a PowerBook. That's just poor design and very user-unfriendly. But, damn it sure is purty.

I had a Palm Treo 650 and 700p previously, and it did practically everything I could think of (including of course those things I mentioned). The iPhone was really only superior to it in wow factor (screen, UI) and media playback.

Exactly my point. Apple products are all about the WOW factor. They are good and fun to look at, fun to use, maybe they'll even get you laid. Price vs. performance they aren't any better than a PC product.

[LittleMike]

Funny? He's obscene. And ignorant. People who don't have a proper vocabulary resort to vulgarity. The PC world is welcome to him. I'd be ashamed to have him in my camp.

Obscene? Yes. Funny as hell? Yes. Pretty much spot on about things? Yes. Ignorant? Nope.

I am smarter than your average bear (145 IQ though I think my mom lied to me). I have a pretty good vocabularity (even when speaking in ebonics) and I swear like a sailor. There's nothing wrong with it in the proper place. The web is certainly the proper place for profanity and obsenity if there ever was one. It looks like you might need some form of NetNanny to protect you from the degenerates in society?

EDIT: Sorry, I just read the page in question and it is pretty damn accurate. Too bad you can't get past the language. If you did you'd see he is quite smart, VERY perceptive, articulate, and has a good vocabulary.

[dansflb]

Obscene? Yes. Funny as hell? Yes. Pretty much spot on about things? Yes. Ignorant? Nope.

I am smarter than your average bear (145 IQ though I think my mom lied to me). I have a pretty good vocabularity (even when speaking in ebonics) and I swear like a sailor. There's nothing wrong with it in the proper place. The web is certainly the proper place for profanity and obsenity if there ever was one. It looks like you might need some form of NetNanny to protect you from the degenerates in society?

You know your right when you say there is a place for everything and the web is that place. I swear like a sailor and I believe in freedom of speech and I also think that the Internet is a place for sites like Maddox.

Here's the difference I wouldn't swear on a local public forum where I'm surrounded by local people that live and work in my local community. I also wouldn't send them to websites like Maddox etc. If that's your bag then fine but if you recommend that others check out the off the wall stuff you believe in at least let them know what they will be looking at. I thought the guy was an idiot, but I did think that parts of it were funny. I wasn't offended, but I can see how others could be. You should also look at the forum and make that call, do you see many postings on this forum that talk about or reference sites like this? I haven't so therefore I think a smart person would say that this isn't the place to post sites like Maddox and if for some reason you still think you should post it then at least let others know of the content they will be looking at when they open the link.

[dansflb]

Nope. Graphic designer and photographer.
If you want to compare apples to apples you'll compare a Mac to something like Alienware's products where it's all top of the line components. No one is interested in apples vs. apples. We are talking about typical Mac vs. typical PC.
With most Mac people it is about being cool, although they will never admit it. There may be some exceptions but most mac people to me come across as though owning a Mac is a badge of honor. It's not. It's a computer.
PCs have had that for YEARS. It's called a laptop. If you need mobility get one.
It is quite possibly the coolest phone ever made but no phone that's been around < 6 months can or will ever be deemed the best phone ever made. You are proving my point that Mac people are all about being cool. I'll definitely be holding my breath for the updates
I meant to add this to my original post but got sidetracked...

A lot of the hype about how great Macs are and how horrible PCs are stems from the fact that hardly anyone uses and Mac and most everyone uses a PC. What is the Mac market share right now? 5%? 7%? Certainly not even close to 10%?

That means that for every 1 Mac person that has a problem there can be 9-19 PC users (depending on what market share you decide to give Apple) with a problem and it's still the same % of problems. I would bet that all things considered PCs are no more error prone than Macs.
Those are wonderful GENERAL shortcuts. Windows has many of those as well. I'm not talking about them. I'm talking about MENU NAVIGATION through keyboard shortcuts. In most programs every menu item in a well designed PC program has a shortcut assigned to it. I'm using FireFox now and I can see:

File Edit View Go Bookmarks Tools Help

I can open any of those menus by pressing ALT and the underlined letter of the menu. I hit ALT F and the file menu opens. EVERYTHING under that menu has an underlined letter that can then be accessed by hitting that letter.

That's how I avoid using my mouse and saving time on a PC. I've tried every key combination I can think of and can't do it on a PowerBook. That's just poor design and very user-unfriendly. But, damn it sure is purty.
Exactly my point. Apple products are all about the WOW factor. They are good and fun to look at, fun to use, maybe they'll even get you laid. Price vs. performance they aren't any better than a PC product.

Ok maybe I misunderstood your reference but if you compared a Mac to a higher end PC the PC would just cost more and illustrate my point even further that Macs are a better price than PC's I compared an iMac to a Dell or HP. I showed equivilant memory, motitor size etc and then showed that a Mac is better priced than your Dell's & HP's etc. So if I was looking at prior posts that say macs are 2x & 3x the price of PC's I would know that NOT to be true by looking at Dell's & HP's pricing compared to Apple's pricing.

I can't agree more it is just a computer, but if you have been frustrated from working on PC's your whole life and then you switch to a mac and love everything about it, you really start to feel like it's something special. I can't believe how much more I enjoy working on my Mac then I did when I had a PC. I only worked on my PC because I had to not because I wanted to, big difference.

Big deal Mac makes a Mac book, which is the same style as a laptop, Pc's just can't do what Mac's can do with the iMac, are you telling me that if you would rather have a tower, speakers, portable camera, monitor, etc cluttering up your desk. I don't think so you just don't want to hear that a Mac can do it and a PC can't.

I started this forum strickly because I couldn't stand the problems I had with all the PC's I've owned over the last 10 years, and I now enjoy working on my computer becasue it's a Mac and I really don't have problems anymore. I personally am a perfect example of someone who used their PC for work and personal use, hated it, switched to a Mac and love it. Hands down night and day difference.

I don't know why you PC guys are so scared to just go down and challenge yourselves by opening your mind and seeing what a Mac has to offer. The defenses that have been brought to this forum are so close minded and opinionated. Being opinonated isn't bad but when you only know one side of the debate it's kind of hard to make a good point.

When I posted why don't you go down there and see for yourself, or compare the products next to each other, none of you said anything. Why, I don't know but if you think your smart, which many of you told us you are; don't you think you should try it out and see for yourself before you start making comments that don't make sense? I did, and then I switched, I use to say I wouldn't switch and then I opened myself to trying something new, realized I could benefit and made the move. What's the harm in trying it out, you don't have to buy?

I looked up my command features and I can access everything you mentioned, have you upgraded you macbook to leopard? Have you done a search in spotlight for shortcuts? When I did a search on my computer I found the shortcuts you mentioned.

Price vs. performance Macs ARE better in many circumstances than a PC product, as illustrated in my prior post.

[nj78]

I'm not saying macs are not complete junk, they are fine machines. Apple has created a marketing machine and much of that success is built on the hype not substance. As far as banning a mention of Maddox from this site, you should strike down Wikipedia while you are at it, Wikipedia has much more graphic obscene material.

[Dave Burrell]

Dan, I swear you must be working for Apple, getting kick backs, or you're new to computing.... sure Macs are good, but the notes about PC's being far less worthy are way off base. (seriously dude, they do not crash or have as many probs as you say you've experienced and assume others have experienced too)

These days, now that Apple has decided to adopt the same chipset that PC makers have been using for years, the hardware between Mac and PC is nearly (if not completely) identical

the only differences are the operating systems - so in a sense, thats what you're really paying for - well, besides some cool plastic logo casing too

so it's Mac OS vs WinXP, Vista, ....and a multitude of Linux OS varieties

Mac really ain't all that, but their marketing sure is (always has been) and thats what people are really buying into - the hype

that said, dude I just got an iPhone!
(pretty neat device! with lots of cool hype that seems to actually work so far)

oh and hey if you wanna get me a mac laptop I'd be more then willing to convert

[dansflb]

I'm not saying macs are not complete junk, they are fine machines. Apple has created a marketing machine and much of that success is built on the hype not substance. As far as banning a mention of Maddox from this site, you should strike down Wikipedia while you are at it, Wikipedia has much more graphic obscene material.

What I find humors about your response is that you say there not Complete Junk, when there isn't any junk in a Mac at all, in fact apple uses much more quality components than the majority of PC companies out there, especially when you compare by price. Maybe it's your way of complementing the Mac, but you just can't come out and say they are great computers, and that I can understand. I agree with you that Apple really knows what there doing when it comes to marketing they are good, but they also have a great product to market, so they do indeed have a lot of substance to sell.

If you think I'm wrong prove it to me, and show me where a Mac is lacking substance. I would like to see a comparison of a well known company like Dell or HP or better that produces a product that the Mac pails to in comparison. This of course is only one facet of why the Mac in my opinion is a better way to go, but I would still like to see your examples.

Just to clear the record I'm not offended by those sites, I do think people should throw out a disclaimer like you listed above, if everyone would write in the post "be aware that this site has graphic obscene material." I think others wouldn't have room to make comments.