235 replies to this topic

[Ronda]

The guy doesn't want more kids.....deal with it!

It would be just as easy to say, "The gal wants another child…deal with it."

Children are a very big expense and responsibly, plus they take a lot of time. Play that down at your own peril.

I don't think anyone is playing that down at all. There are advantages and disadvantages to having a single child; there are advantages and disadvantages to having two. There are advantages and disadvantages to having a houseful of kids.

Nobody has to be "talked into" anything. Nobody has to be "talked out of" anything. A consensus can be reached, and that is what this couple is working toward. A win-win situation. At first glance, this is a standoff, but there surely must be a way to talk through this so that neither person comes away feeling like he or she lost.

I have started making decisions based on "the avenue of least regret." Perhaps each person should put forth their projected regrets and see which are weightiest.

I do know that our son is finding that being an only child has both drawbacks and rewards. Most situations are like that.

[StephanieW]

Children are the hope of this world, Chris! You could be denying us the person who cures all the world's ills. Who knows?


People have been saying since time began that the world is going you-know-where in a hand basket.

When Mom and Dad are gone, it's a lonely world for an only child.

(Just some other things to think about.)

or the person who destroys it! that argument can go both ways..

[Andrea V]

Way too much common sense here. But I agree totally.

My thing is....if in doubt, rule it out. If it's an issue that parents have to have long debates about, I'd say it's a bad idea! I think both parents should be on board 100%, when deciding to have children. Not one pushing and one resisting.

Oh sure, Chris can be talked into it, but is that wise or fair?

The guy doesn't want more kids.....deal with it! What's wrong with wanting to have time for yourself and the kid you already have? What's wrong with wanting to retire early? What's wrong with retiring before you're too old to enjoy it?

Of course there would be a need to spend time with the new child!!!! What are you going to do, decide to place more importance on the older one because he came first? It's silly to say that there will not be times when the baby is sick, your wife will need you to stay home and help out. The fact is, the more children you have, the less time you have. When the new child is of an age when he wants to do something different than your older child, then what? The younger child may be totally different than your current one. Then you have to choose which kid to do what with and when.

Children are a very big expense and responsibly, plus they take a lot of time. Play that down at your own peril.

we made 6 figures last year, I think we would have been able to handle it.

[cw68]

I've been holding off on responding to this to see what others would say. My advice is a little of both. Let me first clarify that I'm not a baby person. Love kids, but babies freak me out. When my husband and I decided that we were going to have more than one, we did it right away because I knew there was no way I could get to an independent stage and start all over again. I'm sure Chris feels some of this and I understand.

Being an only child does bring a lot of responsibility. My bro-in-law is one and so is one of my best friends. She's singularly responsible for her mother since her father passed away and her mother's family is in Japan, she feels the burden and was one of the people who said that we should have more than one child. My bro-in-law, on the other hand, hasn't ever complained. However, his grandmother, both parents and an uncle are still living. We'll see if that changes. My sister wishes there were siblings to share the guilt!

Regarding having a sibling for your son to play with, you're not going to get that. My sisters are nine and ten years older than me. The first one went off to college before I was in the third grade. We got along, but really didn't have much in common and we definitely didn't "play" together. In the end, the three of us are close and the older we get, the closer we get. It's a weird sibling relationship, though, as until a few years ago, I felt more like they were additional mothers and not people who I could open up to and be understood. I was more of an only child when growing up. My dog was my buddy. I'd go to other friend's houses and be envious that they'd have a closet full of games that the kids would play together. I'd have to beg my parents to play Trouble with me! While my kids love their cousins, and vice versa, the youngest is 17. They don't have that close/fun cousin thang.

My husband's brothers are eight years older and eight years younger than he. They are not close at all. The oldest brother didn't like my husband from day one. Hated sharing things with him, hated how loud he was, was embarrassed when he acted like a kid, ruined plans (like kids do). My husband was like a second father to the youngest brother, but soon my husband was too busy with high school and college to be his buddy and his brother felt abandoned. There's more at play here than just the ages, but it didn't help in forming a bond between them.

Chris, you'll have enough love for two, you'll still have a special relationship with #1 and you will have to give a lot. However, you could be getting a lot more than you're giving. You obviously get a lot from your relationship with your son and you'll have just as much with another child. It's crazy how that just works.

Andrea, you're in a pickle. (Chose that purposefully.) I don't know if it's nature at work, or just a longing to fill the hole left by your son getting older and more independent. (The latter, IMO, is why my mother-in-law has the gaps between her children like she does.) I'm not the most maternal person, so I don't know what that longing is like. I'm sure it's huge and painful and impossible to ignore. I say offer to watch somebody's baby for them for a weekend. Then somebody's 14-month old, etc. Tell someone that you'll take their sick baby/child at a moment's notice regardless of what you have going on. See if you're remembering the good times more than you remember the trying times.

The two of you have lots of thinking to do. I don't think either one of you should completely close off the possibility that what the other one wants would be best.

Whew. After all this? My advice is to flip a coin.

[Andrea V]

I've been holding off on responding to this to see what others would say. My advice is a little of both. Let me first clarify that I'm not a baby person. Love kids, but babies freak me out. When my husband and I decided that we were going to have more than one, we did it right away because I knew there was no way I could get to an independent stage and start all over again. I'm sure Chris feels some of this and I understand.

Being an only child does bring a lot of responsibility. My bro-in-law is one and so is one of my best friends. She's singularly responsible for her mother since her father passed away and her mother's family is in Japan, she feels the burden and was one of the people who said that we should have more than one child. My bro-in-law, on the other hand, hasn't ever complained. However, his grandmother, both parents and an uncle are still living. We'll see if that changes. My sister wishes there were siblings to share the guilt!

Regarding having a sibling for your son to play with, you're not going to get that. My sisters are nine and ten years older than me. The first one went off to college before I was in the third grade. We got along, but really didn't have much in common and we definitely didn't "play" together. In the end, the three of us are close and the older we get, the closer we get. It's a weird sibling relationship, though, as until a few years ago, I felt more like they were additional mothers and not people who I could open up to and be understood. I was more of an only child when growing up. My dog was my buddy. I'd go to other friend's houses and be envious that they'd have a closet full of games that the kids would play together. I'd have to beg my parents to play Trouble with me! While my kids love their cousins, and vice versa, the youngest is 17. They don't have that close/fun cousin thang.

My husband's brothers are eight years older and eight years younger than he. They are not close at all. The oldest brother didn't like my husband from day one. Hated sharing things with him, hated how loud he was, was embarrassed when he acted like a kid, ruined plans (like kids do). My husband was like a second father to the youngest brother, but soon my husband was too busy with high school and college to be his buddy and his brother felt abandoned. There's more at play here than just the ages, but it didn't help in forming a bond between them.

Chris, you'll have enough love for two, you'll still have a special relationship with #1 and you will have to give a lot. However, you could be getting a lot more than you're giving. You obviously get a lot from your relationship with your son and you'll have just as much with another child. It's crazy how that just works.

Andrea, you're in a pickle. (Chose that purposefully.) I don't know if it's nature at work, or just a longing to fill the hole left by your son getting older and more independent. (The latter, IMO, is why my mother-in-law has the gaps between her children like she does.) I'm not the most maternal person, so I don't know what that longing is like. I'm sure it's huge and painful and impossible to ignore. I say offer to watch somebody's baby for them for a weekend. Then somebody's 14-month old, etc. Tell someone that you'll take their sick baby/child at a moment's notice regardless of what you have going on. See if you're remembering the good times more than you remember the trying times.

The two of you have lots of thinking to do. I don't think either one of you should completely close off the possibility that what the other one wants would be best.

Whew. After all this? My advice is to flip a coin.

Fine. Chris, heads I win, tails you lose. Ready????

[awood]

Fine. Chris, heads I win, tails you lose. Ready????

Going to the coin flip closely resembles my wife's catholic family attitude. Her parents had 4 kids in 3 years under the "it's God's will". Needless to say, they did a little "family planning" after the 4th! HAHA

[wrabbit]

we made 6 figures last year, I think we would have been able to handle it.

Sunday, I arranged to have a dozen red roses delivered to my wife at her work, on Monday. It's been awhile since I did that, so I thought it a little over due.

When she called me to thank me, she wanted to know why I had decided to send her flowers. I just told her that I had something come up, which had reminded me of how lucky I am to have such a level headed woman, with such integrity, as my wife. And that I wanted her to know how much I loved and appreciated her.

As my final input on this topic, I want to emphasize the substantial amount of respect I would lose for my wife if she brought this into our relationship now, after we have decided what number of children we were going to raise, years ago. I asked her tonight, if she ever thought of having more children and a look of shock crossed her face. I quickly told her I wasn't suggesting we did, but just wanted to know her feelings.

She said.... "I don't think there is ever a time a woman doesn't think about having another baby, but thinking about it and deciding to, are two different things. I feel that some women never think they have enough kids and then after they can not have more, they pressure their grown kids to give them grandchildren. It's like thinking you need something, because you see someone else have it and enjoying it, and you think you want it too." Then she told me she had been thinking of a trip we could take around the world in a balloon, then poked me in the ribs, and laughed as she left the room for more coffee. What a gal! Gotta love her!

I don't know how to say this without offending you, but you seem like a very stubborn and selfish person. You think you know what will make your husband happy, more than he does. You seem to be deciding what the two of you should do, even though, you agreed years before, that there would be no more children. You sound like the kind of person that makes up your mind as to what you want and then uses justification and twisted rational to convince your husband that it's right, and he should go along. You sound spoiled, to me.

I don't know you, it's true, but I don't think, by the way you sound, that you are being very mature now. You are pushing to get your way, but what nobody, you included, has thought of, is what if something happens to you and your husband is left to raise the child you have now, and the new child, by himself?

You see, it will be a responsibility he will have to carry, and what he has been trying to tell you is, he doesn't want it. What right do you have to place such a huge responsibility on him? What right does anybody have to place that sort of responsibility on any person? This shouldn't be something you must convince him of, because if it's not in his heart, it's not your right to place it there.

The rational that siblings are so important and that your son would be alone after you and your husband are gone, doesn't stand on it's own, because family aren't always supportive and sometimes aren't even around. Not to mention the fact that sometimes friends can be even more supportive and closer than family. You are trying to paint a picture of the all American family working out very well, but if that was reality, we wouldn't have so many couples seeking counseling today.

What you are not realizing is the fact that you are asking another person to under take another twenty years of working, so he and you can support and raise another child. You say you understand that, but I doubt you really do. You don't take into consideration that you may not always be able to make the amount of money you do now. That is a mistake many people make when making long range plans.

You seem to think you have enough money for another child. According to financial planners, you should have at least 9 months of income set aside, in the event of a lay off or serious injury, when one of you might not be able to work. Do you currently have that?

By now, you should have at least half of your son's college expenses saved up, as he is already Nine and you have nine more years to save. Have you even an idea of what a college education will cost? Do you at least have half of that now saved?

The amount of money one makes is not usually a problem....it's the amount they spend. Have you sat down and determined how much money a new baby will cost per month and how you will manage the care of it, when you are working? Do you intend to stay home with the baby? Do you intend to work after it is born?

Everything is wonderful when planning something, provided that nothing negative takes place and everything is perfect. But that is not reality. When I planned my business, had I thought there would be no problems nor any set backs, I don't think it would have been successful. One has to consider the unexpected, to make intelligent decisions in life. Emotional decisions are not rational or mature.

I'm sure you will probably get your way, because somehow, I feel you always do. I'm just so glad I am not your husband. No offense, but you are the one who placed this on the board for honest input. And that is my honest opinion.

Good Luck!

[wrabbit]

It would be just as easy to say, "The gal wants another child…deal with it."
I don't think anyone is playing that down at all. There are advantages and disadvantages to having a single child; there are advantages and disadvantages to having two. There are advantages and disadvantages to having a houseful of kids.

Nobody has to be "talked into" anything. Nobody has to be "talked out of" anything. A consensus can be reached, and that is what this couple is working toward. A win-win situation. At first glance, this is a standoff, but there surely must be a way to talk through this so that neither person comes away feeling like he or she lost.

I have started making decisions based on "the avenue of least regret." Perhaps each person should put forth their projected regrets and see which are weightiest.

I do know that our son is finding that being an only child has both drawbacks and rewards. Most situations are like that.

The avenue of least regret? That can be very arbitrary!

I guess I just honor my word to people and expect them to honor their word to me.

Many women want to have children, for different reasons. But to want one, just because you feel like it and want to change the plans that you and your husband have made, is not what I would want my wife to present to me.

I think had this husband had wanted more children he would have suggested they have more long ago, before their current son turned nine years old. The husband is now looking at when he will be free, to do the things he wants with his wife, and she wants to tack another twenty years on his working life.

With the husband not suggesting they have another baby, during the nine years that they have been raising the child they have, tells me he has made his decision already, and had good reasons for it.

[Andrea V]

The avenue of least regret? That can be very arbitrary!

I guess I just honor my word to people and expect them to honor their word to me.

Many women want to have children, for different reasons. But to want one, just because you feel like it and want to change the plans that you and your husband have made, is not what I would want my wife to present to me.

I think had this husband had wanted more children he would have suggested they have more long ago, before their current son turned nine years old. The husband is now looking at when he will be free, to do the things he wants with his wife, and she wants to tack another twenty years on his working life.

With the husband not suggesting they have another baby, during the nine years that they have been raising the child they have, tells me he has made his decision already, and had good reasons for it.

If you read his earlier posts he did say he wanted one before....

I am not going to FORCE him to do anything he does not want to do.

If he can look into himself and really say, "you know what, I really really do not want to have another kid." then that is it.

What people don't understand about Chris is he ALWAYS has his mind set on "how things are" and you have to "convince" him of something else.... most of the time it works and sometimes he really wants it the way it it... i.e he used to wear black socks, and it took me 2 years to get him to wear white ones. He used to use dove bar soap on his face, it took me a long time to get him to change that....

it is not that he doesn't WANT to change his mind... he needs "convincing" but sometimes even that does not work.

So like I said.... If he can look into himself and really say, "you know what, I really really do not want to have another kid." then that is it.

[Deb aka Resume Lady]

Andrea, Chris -- I have full confidence you will make the decision that is right for you.

[Andrea V]

Andrea, Chris -- I have full confidence you will make the decision that is right for you.

thank you... I think so too.

I won't make him do anything he REALLY does not want to. He just needs to be sure that he does not want one more, even after trying to convince him.

[TawnyK]

Can you guys go see a counselor to help you have healthy conversations about this issue and get to the bottom of why you really want the baby and why he really doesn't? I mean- with a trained ear hearing what you guys are saying as well as what you aren't saying maybe you could come to your conclusion a lot faster.

I have to say, you're a strong woman for opening up this topic here in this forum. It's so hard as your friend to not counter attack people who I think are saying unkind things to you and being self righteous. I don't know what I'd do if those comments were directed toward me regarding such a sensitive subject. You're a pretty tough Chika MissV.

[Andrea V]

Can you guys go see a counselor to help you have healthy conversations about this issue and get to the bottom of why you really want the baby and why he really doesn't? I mean- with a trained ear hearing what you guys are saying as well as what you aren't saying maybe you could come to your conclusion a lot faster.

I have to say, you're a strong woman for opening up this topic here in this forum. It's so hard as your friend to not counter attack people who I think are saying unkind things to you and being self righteous. I don't know what I'd do if those comments were directed toward me regarding such a sensitive subject. You're a pretty tough Chika MissV.

The can say all of the "mean" stuff they want, I am not married to them... I would have left them a long time ago! haaha!

Chris and I have a weird relationship.

He SETS HIS LOGIC all up, and knows what what he is going to do every min. of the day....

then I come in and say... "hmmm, baby, I want to paint that wall red! teehee"

and he says "NO WAY, I do not want to paint it white again when we move, and it will make a mess, and NO. I DO NOT WANT IT RED."

And I say... " but baby, it will be cute, and it will match my cherries, and I liiiiiike it."

and then he gives me a look, cos he knows I already bought the paint.

but then, it becomes HIS idea, and HE paints the room, and won't even let me help

But it all turns out perfect.

[ChipShot]

you seem like a very stubborn and selfish person. You sound like the kind of person that makes up your mind as to what you want and then uses justification and twisted rational to convince your husband that it's right...You sound spoiled, to me.

I don't know you, but I don't think that you are being very mature now. You are pushing to get your way,


I'm sure you will probably get your way, because somehow, I feel you always do. I'm just so glad I am not your husband. No offense, but you are the one who placed this on the board for honest input. And that is my honest opinion.

Amen. Thanks for saying what most people here want to say. Well said!! And if they don't like the honesty, they should keep it off the board.

[chris v]

I don't know how to say this without offending you, but you seem like a very stubborn and selfish person. You think you know what will make your husband happy, more than he does. You seem to be deciding what the two of you should do, even though, you agreed years before, that there would be no more children. You sound like the kind of person that makes up your mind as to what you want and then uses justification and twisted rational to convince your husband that it's right, and he should go along. You sound spoiled, to me.

I don't know you, it's true, but I don't think, by the way you sound, that you are being very mature now. You are pushing to get your way, but what nobody, you included, has thought of, is what if something happens to you and your husband is left to raise the child you have now, and the new child, by himself?

So basically, what you are saying is I have no backbone and can be persuaded into anything because she is a spoiled brat who gets everything. Not in this lifetime. While I do tend to get very set in my ways, the more I think about stuff, the more I can see the other side. Andrea is a very strong willed woman but at no point has she ever forced anything on me. She is not the type of woman that will just sit back and be quiet about stuff, she will always voice her opinion no matter what. If anything I am the one who is extremely stubborn. Quite honestly because I get so set in my ways once I decide something I never even think about it again. I have been thinking about this topic a lot in this last week....