328 replies to this topic

[ChipShot]

There are a few people here who seem dumbfounded that cops can sometimes do wrong.

I would call them a little naive, but that would be deemed 'mean'.

[Robert Gary]

I'm starting to think Davburr's a grease bandit and is trying to cover his tracks!

Maybe he's got an illegal refinery in his garage (a lot of people do today).

-Robert

[jafount]

Where in the criminal code do you see that something must have a provable value in order to be charged with stealing it? Again, even if something has no value, that doesn't give someone the right to take it from you without your permission.

-Robert

I fundamentally agree with this statement. I'm arguing simply to the value.

BTW if we're going to get into a semantics argument, the reality is as a peace officer (defined in CPC 830+) he is exempted from the transport crime.

I suspect that you don't know the definition of arrest. They were arrested.

-Robert

Well I'm pretty confident I know the definition of arrest. But, the legaleze text book version is different than that which police officers are taught, which is "the lawful taking into custody of a person in a manner that is prescribed and authorized by law.



Who is "they"?

As to the dollar amount, you are the one who indicated value. I was responding to your comment of $350 worth of product (commodity) and financial loss to the company. If the company gets paid a flat rate to pick up, how is it a loss? I've never looked, but I can't imagine a classifieds ad offering used cooking oil as a commodity, so I question the value of refuse.

If something has no value AND you throw it away, doesn't that, by default give anyone the right to pick it up and take it? Again, I take you back to the aluminum can argument. The value of the empty aluminum can is a nickel. If Joe Schmoe picks it up off the top of a mall garbage can and the person who discarded it there video tapes this egregious act, is the person who took it guilty of theft? By definition, yes. In practical terms, no. We're talking about effing USED COOKING GREASE not property from the evidence locker or retail merchandise from a store. In fact, I'd be willing to bet big money that if anyone here accidentally got any of this muck on themselves, they'd be pissed. Well, the way that stupid law is written, they'd also be guilty of illegally transporting it on their clothing.

This is a WASTE of the court's time, and a witch hunt.

[mylo]

I've never looked, but I can't imagine a classifieds ad offering used cooking oil as a commodity, so I question the value of refuse.

The USDA publishes commodities market prices, including yellow grease:
http://www.ams.usda....ts/jo_gr225.txt

It simply isn't trash!

There's an entire market in the sale, transport, refining, and resale of used cooking oil for various purposes including feedstock and biofuel.

Entire companies are based around the economy of these markets. Stealing grease is a crime that has direct financial impact on these companies. There are laws specifically written to protect this industry.

Stop calling it "useless trash". Just because you don't want it, doesn't mean it's not valuable.

Regarding your comment of "I'd be willing to bet big money that if anyone here accidentally got any of this muck on themselves, they'd be pissed."... I'd be pissed if someone spilled crude oil on me, but that doesn't make it worth less than the $80/barrel the commodities markets currently price it.

[Dave Burrell]

Since Sacramento Rendering is the one that filed the complaint, and the police arrested the suspect based on that complaint, I think it's safe to assume that they had a legal right to claim. Otherwise Malabar would be the rightful owner and Folsom PD would've told Sacramento Rendering to stuff it. Why do you need to see the contract to prove that Sacramento Rendering was stolen from? You can't just arrest someone for theft if you don't own the asset.

At $2.50/gallon (even higher in California) it doesn't take that much to get to $350.

From: http://www.ams.usda....ts/jo_gr225.txt
Yellow Grease (Cents per lb.)
Delivered San Joaquin Valley .28-.29 unch-dn .01
Delivered Imperial Valley .2970-.2975 unch-dn .02
FOB San Francisco Bay Area Plants .27 dn .01
FOB Los Angeles Area Plants .27-.28 unch-dn .01

why do you assume they have a contract? are you sure about that with the arrest and owning the asset factor or are you just assuming that?

mucho thanks for the info on the price per gallon - that is very interesting and what I was looking for, had no idea what its value was but that's good to know now. I wonder how many cars out there are using this alternative fuel? Also with that info chip posted about the guy with the two diesel's helped prove the why that I was looking for too.

hey like I said, I'm not defending the guy, I just wanted to find out more info about the facts behind this case ... before seeing some guy loose an entire career... over used grease

[ChipShot]

This is a WASTE of the court's time, and a witch hunt.

Wow, that's some pretty strong 'denial Kool-Aid' you're drinkin' today.

What flavor??

[Robert Gary]

hey like I said, I'm not defending the guy, I just wanted to find out more info about the facts behind this case ... before seeing some guy loose an entire career... over used grease

Ok, so you are not arguing that he stole the grease and that stealing anything is wrong, you are arguing the severity of the crime given the value of the grease?

I would say that even if it were worthless its a big deal when a group of peace officers, in trusted by the public, get together and steal things. The fact that they are peace officers makes this a serious crime in my opinion. The fact that it appears coordinated (not just one guy) makes it more serious and likely shows a culture problem in the department.

-Robert

[supermom]

Curiously, I am at a loss why anyone would think that the rendering plant or the restaurant would have to press charges for theft in order for this to be considered theft?

If a police officer was stealing something at target valued at $350 and he was being investigated by an IA person--he could be charged at that time. I imagine that it would not come to public light until the IA had enough substantial written reasons for the police officers superiors to approach the officer and tell him he had X amount of time to turn himself in. I also would imagine that even in the case of "surrender" and release on own recognizance--it would still be considered an arrrest.

So--what is the real deal here? Jafount thinks that everyone is being judgemental--or Jafount is standing shoulder deep alongside "fellow" brothers to form that good ole brothership?

Either way--it doesn't matter much. Like I said before, the article does not give enough info for this to be a credible story until more info comes to light.

I say--move on..........

[ChipShot]

shows a culture problem in the department.

Unfortunately, it's all too common in law enforcement these days.

[Dave Burrell]

You keep saying that and I think the rest of us just scratch our heads thinking "what the heck does the value of the grease have to do with anything?".

Your right to your private property is not contingent on the property having value.

Again, the contract between the company Malabar has contracted with to dispose of their grease has nothing to do with this case. If a defense attorney tried to bring it up no judge in the world would allow something so non sequitur to be admited.

-robert

Gotcha, makes more sense now. But to even make a case, wouldn't Malabar then have to be the ones pressing charges?

[Dave Burrell]

I'm starting to think Davburr's a grease bandit and is trying to cover his tracks! I wondered why that Harley always smells like french fries and orange chicken.

shhhhh, I'm hitting KFC tonite

[mylo]

Gotcha, makes more sense now. But to even make a case, wouldn't Malabar then have to be the ones pressing charges?

Given that he turned himself in months after the crime, I personally assume that there is other evidence (video, etc.) that Malabar likely provided. Complete assumption, but it's got to be more than a random 3rd party recycler accusing you to get you arrested.

[jafount]

Technically anyone who cooks their own diesel fuel in California is violating a number of laws by operating as an unlicensed refiner. However, that is not the point. The point is that this was private property of Malabar and they officers had no agreement with the owner/operator of the restuarant to take the grease. That is the root of the issue. The value of the grease is not at issue.

-Robert

Is this a fact? The officer had no permission from the owner or manager of the restaurant to take some of the used grease?

From the article:

The theft was reported by Sacramento Rendering Co., who are contracted to collect used cooking oil from local restaurants for recycling, police said.

Contracted by whom? The city? the restaurant owner? If it's the owner, then the owner still has rights over it. If you contract with a company to cut your grass and you pay them X amount of dollars, does it matter how fast the grass grows? No. They are paid REGARDLESS. If Sac Rendering is paid, they have no loss. Show me a contract that indicates they are guaranteed a certain volume of used oil per week? If the owner wants to give the stuff away, no crime.

BTW I'll say it again, section exempts peace officers from the transportation crime, and makes no indication as to whether they act in their official capacity.

2460. (d) A "peace officer" is any peace officer defined in Chapter 4.5
(commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2 of the Penal Code.

Face it, some of you are orgasmic over such a non issue.

Sticking to the "stealing is stealing" argument is specious at best. By that logic, every person here should get a citation every time they go 26 in a 25 zone ahhh speeding is speeding. Or 34 in a 35 with more than five cars behind you hey impeding is impeding. Or anything other than clear water or feathers from LIVE birds falls from your car as you drive after all littering is littering.

Get real.

[Dave Burrell]

There are a few people here who seem dumbfounded that cops can sometimes do wrong.

I would call them a little naive, but that would be deemed 'mean'.

No more dumbfounded then we are by the comments that come out of you

[jafount]

Unfortunately, it's all too common in law enforcement these days.

How many police departments have you been involved with? oh yeah....none. You're a good source of information.