144 replies to this topic

[ducky]

http://www.sos.ca.go...ber/11150js.pdf

It is sort of hard to read, a lot of stuff underlined or superscripted, but this is the proposal.

Thank you.

[25or6to4]

Wow, go back and learn how to read, I never said they are parks employess. I said they are contracted to use the parks. However, by law, any volunteer sanctioned by an organization --for legal purposes, is considered an employee-even though they are in an unpaid position. They can be held liable for those persons actions within their organization. AND the parks that hold a contract with them can be held liable if harm befalls a minor and they knowingly committed criminal negligence in their inactions to prevent or cause the harm.

The Parks can be sued by the guardian of any child who steps forward and was harmed by this little monster, if he interacted with the child at the park, and the otters organization can be sued if he used his influence as their coach to gain access to that child, particularly if any "harm" happened at a place that is sanctioned as one of the organizations sanctioned activities.

Olivia---you simply have no idea what I know. Or how I come to know what is by law, what is recommended and what is shamefully ignored because of costs, at the expense of too many being harmed by people like Eric.

I know exactly what I'm talking about.

you expect our government to vet every single individual of every single organization that contracts with the city. I'm sorry, but I don't want to live in the police state required to do what you seem to expect.

[supermom]

you expect our government to vet every single individual of every single organization that contracts with the city. I'm sorry, but I don't want to live in the police state required to do what you seem to expect.

huuu hmmm--You do realize that all the information found in any background check for you (except your fingerprints and your-own provided list of references) is already databased? The background check merely puts all the information together so that the reader does not have to do the searching themselves.

You could get online right now and request your own dmv report, credit report (which also shows every place you have used as an address), etc...

Police state is an odd thing to say. You already live in a world where just about every charitable organization you volunteer with, every service you apply credit or billing to already does some form of background check on you with or without your knowledge.

In fact, the large credit companies track how many times a credit check is done on you per quarter and will ding your credit rating if it seems excessive because it shows a major change is probably occurring in your life, which may translate to financial instability.

You are always being watched by somebody. The police state is the least of your worries. At least they are required to inform you if they do a background check on you!

[Raindrops]

Boycott the pools!

These swim moms just don't want the costs of their childrens swim teams to go up by requiring educated and fully vested employees running the parks and rec services. If thats the case then get out of the Parks!

Eric would have passed any "vetting" process that has been proposed. And pedophiles get educations too. You're angry and you want to blame someone, and Eric isn't enough. Sometimes, we just can't see these things coming, which is why we have to keep our children prepared.

You are wrong that these swim moms wouldn't pay more for increased protection against pedophiles. You must not know the population you are talking about.

you expect our government to vet every single individual of every single organization that contracts with the city. I'm sorry, but I don't want to live in the police state required to do what you seem to expect.

Supermom doesn't know what she/he is talking about. The swim team does the same checks the government does.

[Raindrops]

Thoses budget cuts could very well be the reason this kid was not discovered, a long time ago. For years their budget for staffing has been undercut, because of the cities financial problems.

The problem with not paying full price for a full serivce is that you get the kind of service that later you regret. Or you have to redo at great expense. I am so very happy you think that parks and rec is a great department. That doesn't change the fact that a pervert was allowed to work on one of their facilites for several years undetected. And the city is respnsible for that; regardless of whether you like it or not.

And when it comes to the saftey of minors, I absolutely think that all positions sanctioned by the city should be forced to have these requirements. It weeds out the bad guys. It forces them to live a life and then we have a chance of seeing behavioral problems.

You are right. Perverts will try to ingratiate themselves into the community. Which is why we should be even more strict in how we select who has direct contact with our kids.

Its so danged funny how so many people were up in arms about chicken lifestyles a few years ago. The chickens need more room. They need better cages. They shouldn't be force fed. They should be allowed to exercise. So we made laws to protect chickens from egg to stew pot.

Yet our very own flesh and blood, we would rather turn our backs and flinch at the idea of protecting them from wolves in our ranks because of what? Indignation? Claiming it could never happen? Claiming we would never have found out except by accident so it's not worth being more cautious. Complaining of the cost of services if we raised the prerequisites of people allowed to work in these jobs with not just coaching skills, but proof of child development courses and full federal background checks? Are yo really telling me that your resistance to these recommendations is that objectionable? Those sports teams may be contractors, but the city is liable for abuses if those teams abusers hurting kids. How much would you like to compensate the children for--from the cities coffers? 1 M dollars for each child that is abused? Maybe 10 M dollars if the abuse was long term? Wait a second, maybe it would behoove the city to ban young people who do not have outside experience and or time to prove character, access to our children. I want better safeguards in place. You have to go through more hoops to buy a car than to get a job as a coach or lifeguard. How sick is that? Our children deserve better.

What about the children he had plenty of time to groom into submissiveness? They're out there. He had too many opportunities for fertilizing a garden. You are seriously misguided if you think he hasn't touched any children. Sure they haven't come forward yet. Why is that? Because for years he had access to them and they know him?

If budget and costs are keeping the parks from doing the right thing and forcing all contracts and interests to have better prerequisites then I say shut the pool until the costs are manageable. Yeah sure, it stinks, but at least WE wont raise anymore perverts in our own city pool. And then turn them loose on our children.

The reason he wasn't discovered a long time ago is that there was NOTHING to discover. And just three years ago, he was a kid on this team who would have been the one we were trying to protect.

Please name one thing you could have done to detect him before he was arrested. One thing.

[25or6to4]

The reason he wasn't discovered a long time ago is that there was NOTHING to discover. And just three years ago, he was a kid on this team who would have been the one we were trying to protect.

Please name one thing you could have done to detect him before he was arrested. One thing.

I think supermom believes our government should use their crystal ball to predict the future and prevent thought crimes before they occur.

[SacKen]

LOL... it looks like my post on Friday questioning the sanity of supermom was deleted. Maybe prematurely because the posts since then have become even more bizarre. And now there's a call for a boycott against Lembi pool? Give me an effing break! Nobody did anything wrong here except the guys that were arrested.

It is unfortunate that there isn't a known "pervert" gene or some background check that reveals what you do in your private time. It is unfortunate that scum like this are typically only detected after there is a crime.

We are very fortunate in the Sacramento region to have one of the best task forces in the country looking for these people, along with all the sex slavery crime in the area.

If money were to be spent, I would rather see it go towards increasing the capabilities of the task force and not useless expenditures that would only create a false sense of security and would not have prevented any of this.

And, for gawd sake, teach your kids to not be a victim of the Sanduskys of the world. Take these opportunities to learn more about their tactics so you can teach your children what things are not right and when they should immediately mention something to you that was said or done to them. The first sign is rarely a full-fledged molestation or rape. Teach kids to detect the little grooming techniques that are used before then.

That's about the best you can do. Because, unless we get lucky, every pedophile has at least one victim before they are caught. No amount of age restrictions and background checks are going to stop that.

[Darth Lefty]

It is unfortunate that there isn't a known "pervert" gene or some background check that reveals what you do in your private time. It is unfortunate that scum like this are typically only detected after there is a crime.

Wow, thought crime and eugenics. You've skied right down the slippery slope. Are you serious or just trolling? It's always hard to know on this board.

[SacKen]

Wow, thought crime and eugenics. You've skied right down the slippery slope. Are you serious or just trolling? It's always hard to know on this board.

Neither. I didn't say I was for that. If you keep it in the context of the rest of my post instead of going all CNN on it you'll notice that my point is that, contrary to supermom's belief, there is no way of knowing that someone is this type of person until they act on it in some manner. Boycotts, age limits, background checks, taro card readings, etc., will not eliminate predators from the system. Educating your kids and finding ways to get the perverts to show their hand before they go too far is the best we can do.

[supermom]

finding ways to get the perverts to show their hand before they go too far is the best we can do.

You just proved my entire point--thank you very much.

That perverts should not be allowed (or any one) to work directly with CHILDREN; until they have established themselves in the credit, educational, and work experience as ADULTS.

If you choose to have child babysitters then that is your choice. But any organization that uses government funded facilities should have only adults who are vetted through proper federal background checks.

And whoever made the distinctly ignorant comment that the Otters use the same background checks as the government are the people who do not have a clue about the different levels and types of background checks used.

But whatever. I can't believe the amount of people who are resistant to proactively screening out the bad apples that directly influence their children's lives. Its unbelievable to me.
Yeah sure you can educate your kid. But that doesn't stop the perverts from harming kids. It doesn't stop them from continuously trying to infiltrate into your daily lives so that they can have access to your child. Pedophilia is a stronger addiction induced behavior that alcohol or cocaine. The need to sully and empower children is so strong in these guys that once they have chosen your child--the contact attempts will not stop at infrequently getting access through their first contact mode (like meeting your kid at the pool for an hour 3 times a week.) They will insinuate themselves into your child's life and more than likely-with your blessing-because they are skilled at seeming as though they are the perfect role model.

This isn't about big government. This isn't (or shouldn't be) about trust or money, or reputation or pride. Because anyone who truly loves working with children would not object to a full background check. Yeah sure it takes about 3 to 6 months to complete, and it should be revisited every 3 years.

That is the whole point. Our children are the only future we directly have empowerment to direct, and affect. Why would we not put our most resources into ensuring their future is not marred by physical, mental, and emotional abuse?

[The Average Joe]

I love working with children, and while I would submit to background checks (and I have many times), I don't like it. The presumption of guilt is rampant. That is one of the reasons I stopped coaching. My son is grown, and I didn't like having to feel guarded all the time. "Why is this guy coaching? We have to keep an eye out... Is that inappropriate touching?" Etc, etc. Even as team photographer (and I am very good at capturing sports photos), there is still the question of "Is there something odd that he likes to take pictures of children" in some parents minds.
In the end, kids lose out on a coach and photographer because I don't want to be looking over my shoulder and analyzing if every action can be misconstrued. Not to mention the risk of just ONE benign action being distorted into something it's not and basically ruining your life. Once the accusation is made, there is no going back to a "normal" life, even if completely innocent.
teach your children to be on guard. Teach them what is appropriate. Be vigilant. But also be aware of the costs to society of going overboard (zero touch policies, 6 year olds being prosecuted for sexual abuse, etc).
Heck, my mom just retired, and at her retirement party, she was afraid to hug people because that was strictly verbotten. She did anyway (what were they going to do, fire her?) Is that the kind of society you want to live in? I don't.

[doj_gal]

Supermom...do you believe that every pedophile is born that way knowing/acting out that behavior? What about the individuals who never had those thoughts however, after being involved in close connections with children, they start experiencing those thoughts and begin acting on it? No background check would have indicated that individual was a risk.

The best way is paying attention to your children and their behavior. Do not allow your children alone time with people whom you do not know. Pay attention to your family members who have access to your kids(85% of the time it's a family member) Watch for signs of grooming and inappropriate interactions with your kids. Inform your children of people who may try to harm them, help them undertand proper boundaries and let them know that they can ALWAYS come to you with questions.

AND #1 most important thing you can ever do is ALWAYS listen to your children. Make them realize that all their endless chatter, even when they are young, is important. This will make them feel secure and loved knowing that what they want to express is important and acknowledged. They will be more willing to share what is going on in their lives with you!

[cw68]

I love working with children, and while I would submit to background checks (and I have many times), I don't like it. The presumption of guilt is rampant. That is one of the reasons I stopped coaching. My son is grown, and I didn't like having to feel guarded all the time. "Why is this guy coaching? We have to keep an eye out... Is that inappropriate touching?" Etc, etc. Even as team photographer (and I am very good at capturing sports photos), there is still the question of "Is there something odd that he likes to take pictures of children" in some parents minds.
In the end, kids lose out on a coach and photographer because I don't want to be looking over my shoulder and analyzing if every action can be misconstrued. Not to mention the risk of just ONE benign action being distorted into something it's not and basically ruining your life. Once the accusation is made, there is no going back to a "normal" life, even if completely innocent.
teach your children to be on guard. Teach them what is appropriate. Be vigilant. But also be aware of the costs to society of going overboard (zero touch policies, 6 year olds being prosecuted for sexual abuse, etc).
Heck, my mom just retired, and at her retirement party, she was afraid to hug people because that was strictly verbotten. She did anyway (what were they going to do, fire her?) Is that the kind of society you want to live in? I don't.

Great post. I'm sorry you don't feel comfortable volunteering; it's a loss for you and our communities.

So glad I'm not a kid today. It seems nobody thinks kids can do anything. While we prop our kids up, while we celebrate their showing up with trophies, while we argue with their teachers on their behalf, while we teach them they are so special we are really telling them that they need us, that on their own they are worthless and doomed to fail.

[old soldier]

can't help but think if this Toby Kieth place was open with the whiskey girls, this youg coach might have turned his life in a different direction.