379 replies to this topic

[billsfan]

Personally, I would support this if it was a sales tax increase that covered the cost of development ($600M). But I can't support throwing money away as is proposed in this deal.

So you'd let the Kings walk away from the area because of this? I'll take my chances the the local politicians figure out how to split the remaining dollars across Sacramento County communities. Remember, you won't get a chance to vote for a different measure. If this measure fails, short of some miraculous private effort to build an arena, the Kings will move....

[camay2327]

I don't care if it passes or not. To put it bluntly I am not a KINGS fan.

I still say, let the people that attend the basketball games or other events pay for it. Add an additional $5.00 to each ticket they sell.

[billsfan]

I don't care where you spend your money....I was trying to make the point that.....Taxes take money out of the economy.

Mr. Giacometti - maybe you can then be the one that shows me how Bush's tax cuts have invigorated the economy over his terms? I've been looking for an answer. See assuming that individuals are going to spend their tax savings to help the marketplace vs the cumulative affect that taxes have to fund important programs is dramatically different. Now I'm not saying to raise taxes all the time but the lower taxes doesn't work either...

[watstein]

Ok I do have a bias for this arena being a Kings fan. Here is the pro's and con's for the project which everyone should know.

Pro
===========
* A new arena for Basketball, Concerts (could maybe be used for Hocky) etc
* Revitalization of downtown which is the railyard project.
* Light Rail to Either Arena (Arco or new if built)
* Team stays 30 years

Cons
===========
.25% Tax increase for 15

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There is a problem that I do see with the arena. First Arco arena seats upto 17,317 where the new arena is going to be 18,000 seats a difference of 683 seats which in my opinion is not that much difference. Also I would want to know how many luxury boxes would be in this new arena which is what the leauge wants and because this new arena is still going to be small would the leauge allow an All Star game to be here in sacramento or what. What I am supprised is that the model is Memphis' FedEx Forum which holds 18,500 so why are we going to build a new arena that is still small. Also I know that Arco is a Buzz Box building which the new arena will not but how long will it last, if Arco is 20 years old and the Kings are planning to stay 30 years is that the length of time the Maloofs are planning untill asking for another arena or will it be sooner.


I have no issue from the tax prospective and all I say is for the people complaining is that our taxes in Sacramento are still cheeper than San Francisco being 8.5% and Los Angeles being 8.25%. Sacramento if went to 8.0% would equal Santa Cruz so what if you don't like paying the tax then go to Roseville and pay the 7.25% which is easy to do.


So my final saying would be I deffinatly would vote yes as long as the seating question and how long will this building will last is answered and is a good answer and the text of the proposal on the ballot is not wishy washy. Otherwise I will vote no.


My family had a interesting suggestion which is people going to concerts and games in the new arena would pay 2% less if lives in Sac County otherwise people from Placer or El Dorado would pay 2% more. (Hey its just an idea)

[cw68]

well unfortunately I have news for you - our options are - pass the tax or watch them go, because there are always cities who are more than happy to take a 'burden' of an NBA team.

I'm sympathetic to your feelings to the less fortunate however... but I also think all cities have this problem. A 1/4-cent tax is not as big of an impact as the cost of living in terms of inflation. Gas, rent, food are all items that are bigger impacts as their prices have grown so much.

Madison doesn't need a professional sports team because they have a very successful Big 10 sports "franchise" in town that produces high-ticket sales sports 9 months out of the year. (Everyone's out on the lakes the other three months!) If you were there and saw the crowds that frequent State Street when they are in town for a football, basketball or hockey game -- and they come from all over the State -- you would see what a draw sports are.

The football stadium holds 82,000+ people and sells out every game. The McAfee Stadium (Raiders) holds only 63,000+.

The Kohl Center holds 17,000+ for basketball compared to 17,000+ for Arco and 15,500+ for hockey and between 14-17,000 for concerts.

The numbers are comparable to current Arco. But Badger fans hang out in Madison and flood State Street and the surrounding stores and restaurants with lots of money! They don't head back to Sun Prairie or Waukesha directly after the game. Sports events are a day spent in the City.

[Robert Giacometti]

Mr. Giacometti - maybe you can then be the one that shows me how Bush's tax cuts have invigorated the economy over his terms? I've been looking for an answer. See assuming that individuals are going to spend their tax savings to help the marketplace vs the cumulative affect that taxes have to fund important programs is dramatically different. Now I'm not saying to raise taxes all the time but the lower taxes doesn't work either...

Great question!

I probably can't show you, for a variety of reasons. I will try and share my thoughts and would welcome you or anyone to give me alternate views to consider.

First, one's perspective of the economy probably depends more on where that individual is in the economy more than anything else. If one was involved in new home construction here in the Sacramento area the last few years they probably thought the economy was great, yet if one was involved in afield that was being moved overseas....they probably have a completely different perspective.

I'll confess that my thoughts about GW's tax cuts have been changing. I had the opportunity to hear Peter Camajo ( sorry about the spelling) speak. Some of the things he said made sense. GW's tax cuts clearly benefitted the extreme wealthy. Yes those on the left have been saying this all along....but it was easy for me to dismiss this as normal political rhetoric. The extreme wealthy, those who have so much wealth that the state of the economy doesn't affect one way or another, really don't need any stimulation. I'll also confess that I've listened to the rhetoric that by cutting taxes for the wealthy it forces government to make cuts......the problem that I see is that government seldom ever makes cuts. When they do its in programs that there are benefits, NOT in reducing the cost of delivering programs. So by not reducing the cost of delivering services and doing a better job of reducing bureacracy and waste....we end up with deficiets

The rest of us including those who are on fixed income are the ones who could benefit from paying less taxes and possibly could stimulate the economy, by having more money to spend in the economy. This could create more jobs and expand the economy.

A simply way to try and answer your question may be to look at the revenues that came into the Fed before Bush took office and compare those to while he was in office.

Just to get us back on the topic, I will say that it is WRONG to raise taxes on those who can NOT afford to attend Kings games....yet expect them to pay for the Arena!

[OctoberLily]

My problem with this new arena is that Sacramento is being sand bagged with the sales tax. There are other counties in the area that have Kings fans and they just get to drive down from Roseville, El Dorado Hills, Woodland and San Joaquin County to watch the Kings play and never have to invest a dime in the new arena except for their ticket price.

For some folks living in Sacramento County, the tax increase will hurt them - not help them. The median income of families living in Sacramento County simply cannot afford a tax increase on their basic necessities to survive. FORCING them to pay for rich people's extracurricular activities is unfair. Some of these people CANNOT even afford to watch a live kings game but they are going to be forced to pay to build a new arena for them to play in???

Also, the fact that the County of Sacramento does not even get a percentage of any of the profits from the new arena is frankly BS... The billionaire Maloofs get ALL of the profits from the use of the Arena - although the County of Sacramento is footing MOST of the money to build it. Does that make sense to any of you??????? Why is it that the County of Sacramento is not getting even 1 to 10% of any of the profits from the Arena is mind boggling. We build it and the Maloofs gain from it. The rich get richer. The poor get poorer.

Is there anyone on this forum who has the ability and could reason with a family of four struggling financially in South Sacramento, Del Paso, Rancho Cordova, Tahoe Park, Oak park, or anywhere else in Sacramento County and ask them to dish out more money from their pockets and their limited income to pay for extra taxes on gas, food, clothing, books, medicine, etc., so that the rich folk can have a new arena for their Basketball team to play in??? Doubt it.

I know my sons will kill me for saying it because they are die hard Kings fans - but I simply do not think that the ***majority**** of the people living in Sacramento County can afford increased sales tax when they are already struggling as it is to make ends meet.

I hear people debating this subject all the time - people who live in other counties and are all for building a new arena - What the heck do they care??? They aren't footing the bill for it, they just want a new place to play. Also, how many Kings players live in Sacramento County????? I hear that most of them live in Granite Bay or Lincoln (Artez). People in other counties have a lot of opinions to offer but they don't get to bear the burden of an increased sales tax - theirs stays the same.

[jafount]

My problem with this new arena is that Sacramento is being sand bagged with the sales tax. There are other counties in the area that have Kings fans and they just get to drive down from Roseville, El Dorado Hills, Woodland and San Joaquin County to watch the Kings play and never have to invest a dime in the new arena except for their ticket price.

For some folks living in Sacramento County, the tax increase will hurt them - not help them. The median income of families living in Sacramento County simply cannot afford a tax increase on their basic necessities to survive. FORCING them to pay for rich people's extracurricular activities is unfair. Some of these people CANNOT even afford to watch a live kings game but they are going to be forced to pay to build a new arena for them to play in???

Also, the fact that the County of Sacramento does not even get a percentage of any of the profits from the new arena is frankly BS... The billionaire Maloofs get ALL of the profits from the use of the Arena - although the County of Sacramento is footing MOST of the money to build it. Does that make sense to any of you??????? Why is it that the County of Sacramento is not getting even 1 to 10% of any of the profits from the Arena is mind boggling. We build it and the Maloofs gain from it. The rich get richer. The poor get poorer.

Is there anyone on this forum who has the ability and could reason with a family of four struggling financially in South Sacramento, Del Paso, Rancho Cordova, Tahoe Park, Oak park, or anywhere else in Sacramento County and ask them to dish out more money from their pockets and their limited income to pay for extra taxes on gas, food, clothing, books, medicine, etc., so that the rich folk (i.e., season ticketholders) in Roseville, Lincoln, Granite Bay, Folsom, El Dorado Hills, etc., can have a new arena for their Basketball team to play in??? Doubt it.

This, and most of the other posts that echo this sentiment have to be some of the most short sighted posts I've read.

Are you serious? Do you actualy beleive what you write here? .25 cents for every hundred dollars spent. One, single dollar for a four hundred dollar costco shopping trip??? We're talking about one quarter of one percent here. As soon as I see the "poor" give up alcohol and smoking, I'll be concerned about whether or not they have to dig around for an extra quarter the next time they spend a hundred dollars.

I live in El Dorado Hills. I am by NO means "rich". I'm a single full time father. But, I love the Kings, and I go to games with my children when I can. I've also been to quite a few concerts at Arco. i've taken my son to the monster truck jam and the moto cross shows in arco. My girls have been to Disney on ice a couple of times as well. I also attended the big "motivational seminar" held there earlier this year.

There are soooo many other activities that are available to NOT just the citizens of sacramento county, but the surrounding areas as well. This is more than just a private business. It's a business that appeals to a multitude of the area population. It's opportunity. The opponents of this arena deal aren't worried about the poor. They're selfish. They oppose a miniscule tax that will help build and promote this region, under a guise "caring". I'm curious how many of the opposition who oppose this REGULARLY work in a soup kitchen or donate time or money to a homeless shelter. I think I'd be safe in saying it's probably the same percentage as this SHORT TERM tak increase...

[camay2327]

I suggest that you get the people in El Dorado Hills and your county to also put in the 1/4 percent.

Start something, maybe everyone there would be glad to pitch in too.

[OctoberLily]

My sentiments exactly Camay. Thanks for saying exactly what I was trying to say. All of sudden we Sacramentans are "short sighted" because we don't agree on the tax increase. While people who live in other counties who are able to spend all sorts of money (whether or not they are "single fathers" who live in El Dorado Hills) to bring their kids to Monster Car Shows and Disney on Ice = blah blah blah... are so willing to allow us to foot the bill so that they can have a nicer place to play. Frankly, this "short sighted" person can see right through the rhetoric being spread by the people who don't live in Sacramento County.... Maybe another option would be to increase the price of Kings tickets and other events that are currently going on at Arco Arena so that the rich who play can pay for their own play ground.

As far as caring - I sincerely doubt single dad from EDH has ever been to a soup kitchen. I've been to homeless shelters and schools for homeless children and have donated items to these kids. Instead of bringing my kids to monster car shows or Disney on Ice shows, I bring my kids to see what it truly is like to help and give to the poor. A lot of people in Sacramento are struggling to make ends meet - with high gas prices, increased rents, increased prices on everything from food, health insurance -- it's ridiculous to ask them to foot a bill to pay for an Arena that they will never be able to step foot in!!!

In my opinion ~ those who play-should be the ones to pay... Why don't you guys start a fundraiser and pay $$ to build this Arena. Let's see how far you are willing to go and sacrifice to upgrade your play ground.

[Jaxx]

Since it a sales tax and not a property tax, plenty of people from Yolo, Placer and Eldorado county will be putting money towards it. Very few people from those areas never come into Sacramento county to make purchases from fast food and gas on up to big ticket items.
I still think the cost should have been privately funded instead of only 30%. That doesn't mean it all has to be from the Maloofs. There are plenty of other investors who have money to gain from all the development and they could have pooled their money together to pay for the construction costs. The county could then give some kind of temporary incentives to encourage startup of the development, but not paid money out for it.

[Chad Vander Veen]

My sentiments exactly Camay. Thanks for saying exactly what I was trying to say. All of sudden we Sacramentans are "short sighted" because we don't agree on the tax increase. While people who live in other counties who are able to spend all sorts of money (whether or not they are "single fathers" who live in El Dorado Hills) to bring their kids to Monster Car Shows and Disney on Ice = blah blah blah... are so willing to allow us to foot the bill so that they can have a nicer place to play. Frankly, this "short sighted" person can see right through the rhetoric being spread by the people who don't live in Sacramento County.... Maybe another option would be to increase the price of Kings tickets and other events that are currently going on at Arco Arena so that the rich who play can pay for their own play ground.

As far as caring - I sincerely doubt single dad from EDH has ever been to a soup kitchen. I've been to homeless shelters and schools for homeless children and have donated items to these kids. Instead of bringing my kids to monster car shows or Disney on Ice shows, I bring my kids to see what it truly is like to help and give to the poor. A lot of people in Sacramento are struggling to make ends meet - with high gas prices, increased rents, increased prices on everything from food, health insurance -- it's ridiculous to ask them to foot a bill to pay for an Arena that they will never be able to step foot in!!!

I'm truly fascinated that you and Camay and others seem to know exactly how lower income families spend their money. It's interesting too that from up on our hill here in Folsom you have been given their voice to speak with.

You do realize that every time all the folks even richer than us in EDH come down to Folsom to shop at costco and sam's club they help pay for the arena? Every time the people sitting on their mountains of money in Placer county do business in Sacramento county they help pay for the arena.

Stop with the "but, but THE POOR people!" argument, it is a red herring. 1/4 cent tax is not a hardship on anyone. If yuo're so concerned about the poor and taxes, I suggest you devote your energies to reduced the gas tax.

Poor people like the kings too. Sometimes they may even save money and take their families to games. Don't pressume to know their situation and what they think. And, maybe your kids would like an ice show once in a while.

[camay2327]

On another subject. The new Folsom bridge that is going to be built. El Dorado Hills doesn't want to spend any money on that either but they will be happy to drive over it when it is built.

The Folsom City Council tried to get El Dorado Hills to pitch in and I don't think they have decided to do so.

[dukegirl27]

Heres the thing in my opinion...and its my opinion and you dont have to agree...I would agree to pay for a higher tax IF it actually went to something that we NEEDED not WANTED. Why do we need a new arena...I am sure that the 500 or so million that is raised by the tax could go to something useful. I know half of the revenue is going to things needed but I just think its completely unessecary. So I am sorry if you dont agree I just dont see why we need a new arena when there is one that is quite useful.

[Jaxx]

Heres the thing in my opinion...and its my opinion and you dont have to agree...I would agree to pay for a higher tax IF it actually went to something that we NEEDED not WANTED. Why do we need a new arena...I am sure that the 500 or so million that is raised by the tax could go to something useful. I know half of the revenue is going to things needed but I just think its completely unessecary. So I am sorry if you dont agree I just dont see why we need a new arena when there is one that is quite useful.

It is more than just the arena. Other arenas that have been built downtown revitalized those cities. Even the downtown San Diego area was pretty dead before Petco park went in even though I am sure there must have been some other arena around before Petco. The entire area around Petco took off with lots of new development and revialization of old development as a result of Petco going in and I'm sure they imagine the same for the now dead downtown railyard area in Sacramento.
They are starting to get momentum going with the condo towers and some other development and the new arena should help keep everthing moving along.
There isn't much to do at night and weekends downtown now and it could make it a much more attractive place to visit or live.
It would ne nice if there were many more things for visitors to do than just go to old town and look at the capitol building.