192 replies to this topic

[Steve Heard]

Here's my question: Was tax money spent on the dome?
If so I'd say it wasn't worth it.

Yes, tax money was spent, and now, they are reaping the benefits, in the form of employment, sales and taxes.

It was a wise investment. The spent tax dollars to make millions more.

[benning]

I don't disagree that helping out the businesses in the quarter by insuring that people with money are around is a good thing and will help the economy and revitalize the area.

But if you're the owner of the shop, used to making 30k per year, the best that redevelopment can do for you is get you back there. You still have no house, no car, no neighborhood, no savings. I'm not saying it's not valuable but it won't get that person's home rebuilt or get him a car loan or put his kid through college or anything else.

I guess what I'm saying is that it would be nice if the owner of the Saints paid it forward and contributed directly to a fund to rebuild the area, or better yet, have paid for the arena improvements in the first place. Same benefits.

Whatever happened to philanthropy? Instead we're saying 'great - look at all the pretty tax revenue that will trickle down, eventually'. Can't we demand some of each or are we that spineless?

[Steve Heard]

But if you're the owner of the shop, used to making 30k per year, the best that redevelopment can do for you is get you back there. You still have no house, no car, no neighborhood, no savings. I'm not saying it's not valuable but it won't get that person's home rebuilt or get him a car loan or put his kid through college or anything else.

I guess what I'm saying is that it would be nice if the owner of the Saints paid it forward and contributed directly to a fund to rebuild the area, or better yet, have paid for the arena improvements in the first place. Same benefits.

Whatever happened to philanthropy? Instead we're saying 'great - look at all the pretty tax revenue that will trickle down, eventually'. Can't we demand some of each or are we that spineless?

Without the redevelopment, the shop owner goes broke. I think he'd rather take the $30,000.

The owner of the Saints wanted to relocate the team permanently. He wasn't interested in saving New Orleans. Why should he fix up the stadium himself, when other cities were willing to build for him?

[Al Waysrite]

Without the redevelopment, the shop owner goes broke. I think he'd rather take the $30,000.

The owner of the Saints wanted to relocate the team permanently. He wasn't interested in saving New Orleans. Why should he fix up the stadium himself, when other cities were willing to build for him?

here's the real crux: why re-build New Orleans at all? If the buildings weren't properly insured (and the need for FEMA money points to this conclusion) and the prospect of another big hurricane/flood still looming, it appears to be tax money poorly spent.

I realize this is off the point of an arena but in both cases the result is the same: MORE TAXES. I'm already paying too much.

[Duke]

"Hate the deal, gives all profit to the Maloofs and all risk to Sacto, and hate the fact that leaders bypass the clear intent of the law to put it on the ballot so it only requires a majority to pass."

Well put.
This isn't a tax increase for public "entertainment" facilities typically operated and controlled by public entities (...like a municipal swimming pool, or a children's skateboard park).

The arena will be operated by the Maloofs and run at their profit and pleasure. Tons of additional tax money will be funneled to "revitalize" the surrounding area (K Street, Old Town, surface streets, etc, etc).

This will become Sacramento's money pit for the next few decades...

[benning]

Without the redevelopment, the shop owner goes broke. I think he'd rather take the $30,000.

The owner of the Saints wanted to relocate the team permanently. He wasn't interested in saving New Orleans. Why should he fix up the stadium himself, when other cities were willing to build for him?

Because he's wealthy and kindhearted and compassionate?

Call me crazy

[jafount]

"Hate the deal, gives all profit to the Maloofs and all risk to Sacto, and hate the fact that leaders bypass the clear intent of the law to put it on the ballot so it only requires a majority to pass."

Well put.
This isn't a tax increase for public "entertainment" facilities typically operated and controlled by public entities (...like a municipal swimming pool, or a children's skateboard park).

The arena will be operated by the Maloofs and run at their profit and pleasure. Tons of additional tax money will be funneled to "revitalize" the surrounding area (K Street, Old Town, surface streets, etc, etc).

This will become Sacramento's money pit for the next few decades...

Yes yes you're absolutely right! Look at the great job the public entities have done in other arenas! I mean just LOOK at the California penal system and how well run that is. Social Security has done a banner job and...well...we know how efficient the IRS, DMV FEMA and the rest of those publicly run entities are doing. Why NOT take the running of such a facility out of the hands of the people who actually know how to do it, and drop it in the lap of the politicians?

I'm still at a loss as to how this is a bad deal for the county? THe rail yard gets cleaned up and developed AND the county gets to own the property? THe tennants have to maintain it in the meantime? THis seems like a good plan.

[Steve Heard]

Because he's wealthy and kindhearted and compassionate?

Call me crazy

Hey Crazy Person

Businessmen and women are in business to make money, not to give it away. I think expecting him to pay $180 million to rebuild is asking too much.

[Robert Giacometti]

I don't understand calling or emailing and giving ANY organization an earful. It's a campaign, Cal. Any proponent or opponent has the right to use the communications systems available to them to promote their side of the picture. Don't you get tons of stuff with which you disagree? If you're not a Sac Metro Chamber Member, why do they care if you disagree with them?? It just sounds like a waste of time and energy. There are valid reasons to consider voting in favor of Measures Q and R, so it's valid to let people know what those might be.

The IRS has been looking into NonProfits and their involvement in elections to try and determine if they have violated that clause regarding NonProfits. Its my understanding that NonProfits can NOT support candidates or take positions.

Does Sac Metro get any funding from Sac City or the BOS?

The lines do get pretty blurred at times!

[MikeinFolsom]

I've never been to a Kings game. I could care less if they have a new arena or not. If the taxpayers fund the arena, then maybe those taxpayers shouldn't have to take out a 2nd mortgage just to see a King's game from the nosebleed section.

I don't see the Maloofs asking the Vegas citizens to help fund their casino ventures. Why should we help pay for their arena? Maybe the city should build it, and reap the benefits from it. And as was previously mentioned, reap the benefits of the surrounding businesses as well. What? The Maloofs won't go for that? Don't let the door hit them on the way out......

[FiscalConservative]

...
I'm still at a loss as to how this is a bad deal for the county? THe rail yard gets cleaned up and developed AND the county gets to own the property? THe tennants have to maintain it in the meantime? THis seems like a good plan.
...

Then .. vote for the measures and watch more than 70% of the voters oppose them .. and then send your personal check to the Maloofs to contribute to their private "help us build our arena" fund ...

[Robert Giacometti]

I went to New Orleans last weekend, and stayed for the Monday Night Football game at the Superdome.

I could go on for hours about how bad New Orleans has it right now. The city is truly devastated. Closed shops, destroyed or abandoned homes and commercial buildings, entire neighborhoods without water or electricity, etc. Some progress has been made, but it is really bad.

So, what did they do? They spent $180 million to repair and refurbish their football stadium. That's right, with all of the clean up and repairs needed throughout the city, with many people living in FEMA trailer camps, devastation all around, the city chose to fix their football stadium.

There were plenty of critics. "Why should we spend tax dollars so millionaires can play a silly game?" "How can you justify spending that kind of money on a football stadium when there are people living out of trailers?" "Do you know how many homes we could have built with 180 million dollars?" Sound familiar?

I'll tell you why. If they hadn't spent that money, the Saints would have moved to another city. San Antonio and Baton Rouge were offering stadiums and incentives. They know the value of having a sports franchise.

So, the 'Dome was rebuilt, and the Saints will stay. 68,000 people have paid for full season tickets. I think that's about $27 million. Most of those folks from outside of New Orleans. I saw hundreds of people in visiting Atlanta Falcons gear. The day after the game, I missed my 1030am flight, and had to stand by, not getting on until 4pm. One of the airline employees told me, "It's always like this after a Saint's game"

All of those visitors spend money.

Saturday, the French Quarter was practically deserted. Pat O'Brien's and Cafe Du Monde, two always-crowded landmarks, were each about half-full.

Since the game was on Monday, most of the fans didn't arrive until late Saturday, or on Sunday. Sunday, the Quarter was packed.

The Superdome is located in downtown New Orleans. I parked in the Warehouse district, and walked about a mile to the stadium. All along the route restaurants and bars were packed.

Inside, vendors were selling out their products.

Monday Night, after the game, the Quarter was packed.

The city was alive again.

I can only imagine the kind of money that was spent that weekend. People were working. Businesses were making money. You can see that people have invested businesses around the 'Dome, as more and more shops and restaurants have opened or re-opened.

In addition, the rebirth of the 'Dome and the return of the Saints brought back pride and enhanced the quality of life for the people of the region.

It is clear that a downtown arena will prove to be a great benefit to the Sacramento region. Let's get this thing built.

Steve,

How in the world can you use the impacts from the reopening of the Superdome on a very special MNF game to a regular season NBA game to try and justify supporting this Arena tax. The Kings will never draw 68,000 fans to stadium that seats 18,000 and the last time I checked they don't have any MNF games scheduled.

This is an extremely exaggerated stretch to try and pursuade anyone to vote for this proposal using the Saints and this game and I'm being sensitive in saying it in this manner!

Lets be honest.... as soon as Reggie Bush fell into the Saints lap as a the number 2 draft pick season ticket sales exploded....that had nothing to do with an Arena! BTW, looks like your finally rooting for Bush!

Lets ask this question again....Did New Orleans raise sales taxes to rebuild the Superdome? Its probably a safe bet to assume that New Orleans will get reimbursed for some of the cost of rebuilding the Superdome through some sort of relief fund.

I, along with the rest of the country and probably half of Atlanta were happy to see the Saints back in the Superdome. I'm sorry there is no relationship between the Saints returning to the Superdome and raising sales taxes to build a new Arena in Sacramento....unless its just emotions and not facts or logic!

[Steve Heard]

Steve,

How in the world can you use the impacts from the reopening of the Superdome on a very special MNF game to a regular season NBA game to try and justify supporting this Arena tax. The Kings will never draw 68,000 fans to stadium that seats 18,000 and the last time I checked they don't have any MNF games scheduled.

This is an extremely exaggerated stretch to try and pursuade anyone to vote for this proposal using the Saints and this game and I'm being sensitive in saying it in this manner!

Lets be honest.... as soon as Reggie Bush fell into the Saints lap as a the number 2 draft pick season ticket sales exploded....that had nothing to do with an Arena! BTW, looks like your finally rooting for Bush!

Lets ask this question again....Did New Orleans raise sales taxes to rebuild the Superdome? Its probably a safe bet to assume that New Orleans will get reimbursed for some of the cost of rebuilding the Superdome through some sort of relief fund.

I, along with the rest of the country and probably half of Atlanta were happy to see the Saints back in the Superdome. I'm sorry there is no relationship between the Saints returning to the Superdome and raising sales taxes to build a new Arena in Sacramento....unless its just emotions and not facts or logic!

Robert

As mentioned in my post, an airport employee said, "It's always like this after a Saints game". It wasn't just because it was a special game on MNF, as the Monday night games always sell out. Some argue that they sold more season tickets because of Reggie Bush. Some say it is because there is nothing else to do in New Orleans anymore. Some say it's because businesses are buying them. Some say locals are buying them to help out.

Whatever the reason, they can't buy any tickets to see the Saints at the Superdome if the Saints don't play there.

I also didn't mention raising taxes in New Orleans or Sacramento. I said, "Let's get this thing built"

It is obvious that a sports franchise draws visitors to a city, and New Orleans just proved it. Sports franchises bring money to a city.

That's what I am saying.

[Chad Vander Veen]

Honestly, all you "go write personal checks to the Maloofs" people are so sad. It's that attitude that is one of this country's biggest problems - the idea that, hey, if I don't benefit directly, then I don't want it. The shortsighted, pessimistic and downright selfishness of such attitudes is truly difficult to stomach. Plus, you out yourselves as people who truly don't even understand what you're opposing.

We are a community. Investing literally a few pennies to help our entire region prosper should be a no-brainer, but stodgy, "me first" attitudes sadly seem to be winning the day.

[old soldier]

the way I see it the vote will be against the tax cause there is too much confusion and the real question is wether the Maloofs will try again with another plan or just up and move the team.

the real problem is the folks who came up with this plan, and they are our government leaders, just screwed up and may have made more than a few folks mad about any plan for the arena.

kinda reminds me of when you go phesant hunting and you miss with your first shot....the second one is a lot harder cause the bird is farther away and going faster