343 replies to this topic

[Robert Giacometti]

Let's see what happens with this case vs. what happened when Krug killed two kids (Jordan Barkey and Carly Baker) two years ago. Remember Krug, he got 90 days county jail and community service for killing two kids!?

I was thinking the same thing.

I was at that accident scene, very very sad. I could NEVER be a Firefighter!

These kids were 100% completely innocent...just driving down the road when the car came across two lanes at him them head on.

There has got to be something else to this story that the public isn't being told...something here doesn't add up.

[tessieca]

Yep, if guilty, they do need to pay. But my conclusion is the same. No amount of punishment will bring back the lost wife, mother and teacher. And ruinng the young man's entire life will merely guarantee that no good can come of this tragedy.

There are a couple of reasons for jail terms, including punishment, retribution, and deterrence. Obviously the retribution theory doesn't work here, because as you said, you can't bring back that mom. I think in this kind of case that the possibility of deterrence might be a good enough reason to "throw the book at them" if they are found guilty. The alleged post-crash attitude, and the attitude of one of the mothers makes me think that they will not learn unless they are punished (punishment theory).

[tessieca]

Also, I had heard that a new law would subject them to up to ten years for a street racing death.

[SST]

Quoted for Truth

I had to tell my 8 year old that her teacher for reading and the 2nd grade was dead. She asked me why and how? That is nothing compared to the McNew families pain...
I remember meeting Mrs McNew and after talking a little while you realized just how much passion she had for kids and learning. She was an amazing women and teacher with a good heart! All you had to do is bring something up about learning and she just excuded joy and wonder.

[Dave Burrell]

Also, I had heard that a new law would subject them to up to ten years for a street racing death.

As the saying goes, if they can't do the time, they shouldn't have done the crime! Nobody can say that they didn't know there was a posted speed limit or that their cars were capable of high rates of speed - lets get real people.

I still don't feel sorry for those punks that exhibited nothing but complete and utter lack of responsibility or any common sense by doing what they did.

I cannot see this any other way then "what if that was my wife".
The thought of the agony the husband is going thru now without his wife, how the children are coping without a mother now. How the students at her school now don't have their favorite teacher around anymore.

Screw feeling sorry for those spoiled punks. Thats whats wrong with Cali - the line between the criminal and the victim gets too blurred by bleeding hearts.

Time for people to be made responsible for their actions - its long overdue!

Even of they got the max 10 years, that will never pay for the loss of life they caused by their irresponsibile actions.

[SST]

I am sure that the PD will be able to know exactly how fast the cars were going based on skid marks and impact. As the road turns right the skid marks go straight into the left lane and continue to the point of impact.

[Robert Giacometti]

I am sure that the PD will be able to know exactly how fast the cars were going based on skid marks and impact. As the road turns right the skid marks go straight into the left lane and continue to the point of impact.

I was on the road today at lunch and saw the skid marks. The back passengar tire seemed to lock up significantly longer than the drivers side. Can anyone offer an explanation on why something like that happens?

When leaving the parking lot, if you stop before the crosswalk, you can't see very well. When you pull ahead a little....you really have to turn your head to the left, beyond perpendicular, to see if there are any cars coming in the lane nearest to the curb. I can see how someone might not see a car coming....before pulling out.

Please be careful if you are leaving in that direction!

[Duke]

Tony, I don't claim to know what the sentence is for vehicular manslaughter, but I'm very sure its NOT 25 to 45 years.

I doubt very much if a first time offender in a case like this, where there may be questions about percentages of fault, would EVER get any type of sentence even remotely like what you are saying above.

Again, I too feel sorry for all the families involved. All families are going to be affected, to different degrees. However, there does need to be consequences for our actions.

IMHO, we need recognize that possibly it could have been one of us or a loved one in either vehicle and to use this tragic story as a reminder to slow down and to share with our children these stories, so maybe they realized they aren't invincible and there are consequences to their actions.

Indeed.
It sounds as if the investigation could result in a charge of either: Vehicular Manslaughter, 192©(1)PC [gross negligence]...
or 192©(2)PC [without gross negligence].

Per 193 PC, punishment is:
192©(1)PC = 1 year county jail; or 2, 4, 6 years in state prison.
192©(2)PC = not more than 1 year county jail.

[SandPebble]

It's interesting to see how many approachs people have towards this tragic incident. I can't imagine what either family is going through.....

As for liability, certainly fault will rest with both drivers, perhaps even the city. McNew pulled from a driveway and violated the right of way of a driver on the main street. Kid in his sports car was clearly driving too fast for conditions and appears to have been involved in a pre-arranged race of some kind. The city and/or outlet developer may be on the hook for unsafe placement of the driveway if the visibility is so restricted at that point. Perhaps left turns should have been unlawful from that particular driveway given the curve in the road.

In seeing all the news footage, interviews, etc. on the news, I understand the anger Mr. McNew is expressing over his loss. However, would he feel the same way if his son or daughter did the same thing to someone else? It's natural to angry, but I hope that anger can be funneled to something more productive and meaningful. Anger helps no one in the long run, it only eats away at you. The sadness will never go away though but that too can be turned to something productive - perhaps educating high school students in driver's ed classes by bringing some reality to the responsibility of being a driver.

Ultimately, this case will end up in both criminal and civil court in the years to come. No one ever knows what a jury will do. Think of this - fatalities occur every day. One brief glance at a passing car can make you miss that pedestrian running out into traffic. It could really happen to any of us at any given time no matter how good of a driver you think you are. So, when you want to bash "the spoiled punk kids" or the inattentive woman - think. Who are you?

Good Night.

[tony]

Just to clarify, my comment about 25, 35, 45 years...was in response to others' suggestions of capital punishment or life in prison. I wasn't suggesting that I thought a sentence for vehicular manslaughter (or whatever the charge might be in a case like this) should be that long. Actually, I'm a little surprised at how short the potential sentences are. One year for vehicular manslaughter with gross negligence? That does sound like a slap on the wrist. Ten years for causing a death while street racing actully sounds more reasonable to me (and I do recall reading about the new law).

As for the woman being partly at fault. If the kids were really going as fast as they appear to have been, then she could not have been responsible for violating thieir right of way. If the road is designed and safe for people driving at 45 mph, then someone cannot be partially responsible for not seeing oncoming cars that are going 20, 30 or more mph over the speed limit. And, unless there is a crash history at that location or the driveway clearly violates sight distance criteria, I would find it hard to believe that the city could be found at fault. But far stranger things have happened in court.

[Orangetj]

I was on the road today at lunch and saw the skid marks. The back passengar tire seemed to lock up significantly longer than the drivers side. Can anyone offer an explanation on why something like that happens?

This could be caused by a couple of things. The most likely reason is that the car was initiating a turn to the right, which unloads the right rear tire as weight shifts toward the front of the car and toward the outside (left) of the turn. This makes it easier for the tire to lock up since it is in lighter contact with the ground. Alternately, the brake proportioning system could have been a bit off. I'd wager that the first scenario is what caused the right rear tire to lock up first, though.

[tessieca]

Why would you be so insensitive as to call her an "inattentive woman"? If the kids were going that fast (and all of the evidence suggests they were going much faster than the posted speed limit), she probably did just exactly what she was supposed to do -- stop, make sure that passage is clear, and then proceed into the intersection. They came up on her too damned fast!

I guess we can all take a lesson from my husband who is extremely cautious about entering any intersection, whether he has a green light or other right of way. He watches for unexpected things such as street racers and high speed police chases (another way a driver in Folsom was killed). Just because you have the right of way doesn't mean you need to take it. Be safe.

[Robert Giacometti]

This could be caused by a couple of things. The most likely reason is that the car was initiating a turn to the right, which unloads the right rear tire as weight shifts toward the front of the car and toward the outside (left) of the turn. This makes it easier for the tire to lock up since it is in lighter contact with the ground. Alternately, the brake proportioning system could have been a bit off. I'd wager that the first scenario is what caused the right rear tire to lock up first, though.

Thanks for the explanation. It appears the driver of the stealth tried to turn to the left and hit the brakes at the same time.

I suspect it may be very difficult to come up with an exact speed the stealth was going. I can foresee conflicting expert opinions on the speed based upon many variables including the working conditions of the brakes.

[SandPebble]

Why would you be so insensitive as to call her an "inattentive woman"? If the kids were going that fast (and all of the evidence suggests they were going much faster than the posted speed limit), she probably did just exactly what she was supposed to do -- stop, make sure that passage is clear, and then proceed into the intersection. They came up on her too damned fast!

I guess we can all take a lesson from my husband who is extremely cautious about entering any intersection, whether he has a green light or other right of way. He watches for unexpected things such as street racers and high speed police chases (another way a driver in Folsom was killed). Just because you have the right of way doesn't mean you need to take it. Be safe.

I am sorry you felt my reference to "inattentive" was insensitive. I am just trying to be realistic. Simply going over the speed limit does not absolve any other driver of liability. Let's say you are at a stop sign - cross traffic does not have stop sign but a car is travelling 15 or 20 mph over the speed limit. Do you seriously think you have a right to pull out in front of them and not have any contribution to fault? Clearly it was not safe to proceed. We don't even know if she stopped prior to pulling out - there simply are so many variables we just don't know about at this time when it comes to assessing fault.

Your husband sounds like he does the right thing -- one should always expect the unexpected. Let that be a lesson to all of us.

When it comes to a wrongful death claim, trust me, everyone is going to be named as a defendent most of the time - car manufacturers, tire companies, landscapers, etc...you name it. I wouldn't be suprised if Mr. McNew has already retained counsel who inturn is already looking into reconstructionists, biomechanical engineers, etc to look into all aspects of this tragic accident.

And as to the braking issue, it certainly will be complicated by a number of things such as tire condition, roadway surface condition/wear, temperature, roadway grade, etc... While not exact, I am certain the FPD investigators should come up with a pretty close estimate. Also, I am not sure if the Stealth or the other vehicle racing with him has a black box but if they do, that would likely provide some invaluable info such as speed, time of braking, etc. with much greater accuracy than measuring skid marks.

[OctoberLily]

If the kids were going 60 to 80 mph as alleged, they would have been severely injured and their car unrecognizable (i.e., their stereo system would be worthless).

There are too many people on here who are ready and willing to throw stones at these kids before the investigation is even completed. Unfortunately, that is how society is these days - react first and find the truth out later.

I don't know how any witness can say for a fact that the kids were going between 60 to 80 mph. They are guessing because unless they are CHP officers and have had training in this field, then their statements are only a guess. Even CHP officers need to go through extensive training to testify in Court that they estimate speeders of going a certain speed. The witnesses are not experts and we cannot go by what they say. Even I have to check myself everyday when I'm driving on the freeway because it seems like I'm going 65 mph when actually I'm going 75 mph - so I slow down and manage to piss off everyone behind me who are blowing by me on highway 50 at 80 mph.

Lately, there is an annoying stigma that teenagers have these days where any time teenagers are involved in accidents, the news reporters and the police officers automatically ASSUME that it was based on street racing - and they will go public with their assumptions before the investigation has been completed. (Remember the Elk Grove incident initially thought to be street racing and then found out that it wasn't street racing.) Then when the investigation is complete and it is found that street racing was not the cause of the accident, it is too late. The families of BOTH the victim and the teenagers are already destroyed. It is reckless for news reporters and police officers to make statements on t.v. claiming to be truths when they are only based on assumptions. It is reckless because when the truth comes out and it is completely different from what was originally stated, the only people it hurts the most are the victims and the alleged perpetrators of a crime.

Fortunately, in our judicial system, the jurors are forced to hear all the facts and evidence before convicting people, putting them in jail and throwing away the key. For one poster to actually suggest we follow a "middle eastern" tradition of allowing the family members of the victims to dish out the punishment is insane. Can you imagine our society if we were to actually do that? Revenge killings and beatings would occur every day in our neighborhood - No thanks! It's bad enough we have murder suicide occuring here already.

I just saw the picture of the vehicles involved in the accident on t.v. - the front end damage of the dodge stealth didn't even encroach into the driver or passengers cabin. Not typical for car crashes involving speeds of 60 to 80 mph.

It was difficult to watch the husband of the victim on t.v. It really hurt to see him hurting so much - you have to put yourself in his and his childrens' shoes. This is such a tragic loss for them. I just hope that they find strength in God and peace down the road knowing their wife and mother is in a better place.

As for the teenagers, I hope that for their sake, a thorough investigation is made and the truth is brought to light.