154 replies to this topic

[Kevin_F]

Let me say that after spending a few weeks reading the forums here at MyFolsom I was finally driven to reply by the callous, ignorant, and for the most appallingly prejudiced replies and messages about the light rail. As a person who has ridden the train nearly every day since its inception and as a professional who helps municipalities deal with just such issues, I felt compelled to put in my two cents.

First of all, wake up Folsom -- WE ARE NOT AN ISLAND!!! Homeless individuals have been coming here (especially to Iron Point) long before the train and they will come long into the future. The whole idea that a simple train has destroyed the illusion that Folsom stands apart from the rest of Sacramento is ignorant and annoying for those of us that strive to understand the vagaries of urban growth and how to best handle and plan for it. Folsom is not located in the foothills, it is not Tahoe, and it is certainly not separated from the rest of Sacramento by some feature like a mountain that would mean we could ever have the expectation that we are alone and protected.

Second, homeless individuals are not -- as a class -- crooked, corrupt, or criminal. If you stepped out of your little fictional world and spent some time in Sacramento you would realize that the majority of crime occurs in lower income neighborhoods perpetrated by individuals who live in houses and apartments. The vast majority of homeless individuals don't want to commit crimes, don't care to have anything to do with you or your family, don't vandalize businesses or homes, and almost all of them simply want to be left alone.

These are people, not animals that can be discussed in general terms as “one of those people”. How would you like it if urban residents of Sacramento referred to residents of Folsom as “those prison-town people”? Quit discussing the homeless as if they were gum to be scraped from your shoe. And certainly quit playing along with the media and the spin artists by thinking that the train is where the homeless issue is coming from. Think about it rationally. The train, which has seen high ridership and could easily be considered a success (at least in the short term), is not much of a story considering that start-up went off without a hitch and people seem to be adjusting to the new schedule and the hassles any new train service offer up. So, there’s no story there -- where can the papers and the TV news get the “angle” that would stir interest? How about the homeless problem! Everyone wants the homeless to go somewhere else! What if they come to Folsom, the great “paradise”? It would cause an uproar! Uproar = story.

That said, yes the likely camping areas along the lake should be patrolled. Yes, controls should be put on sleeping in the streets and urinating in public. But the way to control these problems isn’t to arrest homeless people and ticket them. What are you going to take away from them? Their meager belongings? Those same belongings that they carry around in trash bags for the simple reason that suitcases are way beyond their means? Wake up, step out of your half-million dollar homes, pierce the bubble of your elitist fantasy of isolation and protection, and start dealing with the problem.

And for the record, I ride the train because I choose to, along with a number of other professionals that see the train as a low cost (it’s cheaper than driving, even for those of us that work only one city away) low hassle commuting option. Yes, I’ve seen my share of less than desirable people on the train (one man asked me to count the hairs on his head, and to do it before we reached the Hazel station). I’ve had my share of drunks and boomboxes. But it’s still better than paying $3.00 a gallon to sit on the freeway at a standstill and suck in exhaust.

Wake up Folsom. The train didn’t make you a part of Sacramento. It simply made you realize that you already were.

[Terry]

Let me say that after spending a few weeks reading the forums here at MyFolsom I was finally driven to reply by the callous, ignorant, and for the most appallingly prejudiced replies and messages about the light rail.  As a person who has ridden the train nearly every day since its inception and as a professional who helps municipalities deal with just such issues, I felt compelled to put in my two cents.

First of all, wake up Folsom -- WE ARE NOT AN ISLAND!!!  Homeless individuals have been coming here (especially to Iron Point) long before the train and they will come long into the future.  The whole idea that a simple train has destroyed the illusion that Folsom stands apart from the rest of Sacramento is ignorant and annoying for those of us that strive to understand the vagaries of urban growth and how to best handle and plan for it.  Folsom is not located in the foothills, it is not Tahoe, and it is certainly not separated from the rest of Sacramento by some feature like a mountain that would mean we could ever have the expectation that we are alone and protected.

Second, homeless individuals are not -- as a class -- crooked, corrupt, or criminal.  If you stepped out of your little fictional world and spent some time in Sacramento you would realize that the majority of crime occurs in lower income neighborhoods perpetrated by individuals who live in houses and apartments.  The vast majority of homeless individuals don't want to commit crimes, don't care to have anything to do with you or your family, don't vandalize businesses or homes, and almost all of them simply want to be left alone.

These are people, not animals that can be discussed in general terms as “one of those people”.  How would you like it if urban residents of Sacramento referred to residents of Folsom as “those prison-town people”?  Quit discussing the homeless as if they were gum to be scraped from your shoe.  And certainly quit playing along with the media and the spin artists by thinking that the train is where the homeless issue is coming from.  Think about it rationally.  The train, which has seen high ridership and could easily be considered a success (at least in the short term), is not much of a story considering that start-up went off without a hitch and people seem to be adjusting to the new schedule and the hassles any new train service offer up.  So, there’s no story there -- where can the papers and the TV news get the “angle” that would stir interest?  How about the homeless problem!  Everyone wants the homeless to go somewhere else!  What if they come to Folsom, the great “paradise”?  It would cause an uproar!  Uproar = story.

That said, yes the likely camping areas along the lake should be patrolled.  Yes, controls should be put on sleeping in the streets and urinating in public.  But the way to control these problems isn’t to arrest homeless people and ticket them.  What are you going to take away from them?  Their meager belongings?  Those same belongings that they carry around in trash bags for the simple reason that suitcases are way beyond their means?  Wake up, step out of your half-million dollar homes, pierce the bubble of your elitist fantasy of isolation and protection, and start dealing with the problem.

And for the record, I ride the train because I choose to, along with a number of other professionals that see the train as a low cost (it’s cheaper than driving, even for those of us that work only one city away) low hassle commuting option.  Yes, I’ve seen my share of less than desirable people on the train (one man asked me to count the hairs on his head, and to do it before we reached the Hazel station).  I’ve had my share of drunks and boomboxes.  But it’s still better than paying $3.00 a gallon to sit on the freeway at a standstill and suck in exhaust.

Wake up Folsom.  The train didn’t make you a part of Sacramento.  It simply made you realize that you already were.

Thank you for your comments, and as a Folsom native, I can assure you that we were at one time referred to by "those prison-town people". I agree that there is an elitist attitude among a lot of the newcomers to Folsom and as someone who went to school with and still maintain friendships with several of Folsom's homeless residents (who also are native-born) I don't know how to change that elitism.

I'm not sure you will wake up those Folsomites who feel they're above it all and have to maintain their property values above all else. But for the rest of us who were here when Sacramentans thought we were "those people out in the sticks", we've been awake for a long time.

I can relate to your frustration - and so can quite a few on this site.

[Justasmalltowngirl]

Yes, I wish the cops in this town would get off their rears and start being aggressive with ticketing. I RARELY see a cop writing a ticket, and I am constantly seeing people blatantly breaking the law and I'm getting sick of it. We have the laziest police force in the area, bar none. 

Unless the world has become flat once again, You have one of the BEST police forces in the area.. area=scaramento.. ALMOST ALL of sac county has County Sherriff's! Folsom has it's OWN PD and their response is alot faster than you would get anywhere else in sac county.. And how much "serious" crime goes down in Folsom? I dont know in all honesty I am asking.. I am currently away from home and that's why I come to this site. To see what's happening at home

[mylo]

Second, homeless individuals are not -- as a class -- crooked, corrupt, or criminal.  If you stepped out of your little fictional world and spent some time in Sacramento you would realize that the majority of crime occurs in lower income neighborhoods perpetrated by individuals who live in houses and apartments.  The vast majority of homeless individuals don't want to commit crimes, don't care to have anything to do with you or your family, don't vandalize businesses or homes, and almost all of them simply want to be left alone.

I don't like homeless people. Sure, many are mentally handicapped, and those are the unfortunate cases, but let's focus on the majority for this response. By my own case studies from riding BART for over a decade, living and working in SF, and now riding the light rail I have come to some conclusions of my own.

I still don't like homeless people. Most are lazy, worthless, or drug addicts! There, I said it. I'm sure I'll see eFireballs heading my way before I even hit the submit button. This isn't elitism. This is preference for personal hygiene and safety. I don't trust homeless people. They obviously can't hold a job of their own, can't get their s--- together long enough to get off the streets, what evidence do I have that they won't rob me? I have been assualted and mugged by homeless. I have been urinated and spit on. I did nothing to provoke it but be in their vacinity.

I rode the train this morning for my usual commute to Zinfandel. Sure, Zinfandel is only 15 minutes away, and there is no "great wall" dividing Folsom. But Folsom Is Better. Ooh, I said it again! Yes, Folsom is a nice town! It cares about it's culture and environment. Perhaps the people of Folsom spend more on Police? Perhaps they run better neighbourhood watch programs? I don't really know. I just know I feel safe here.

I work in Rancho Cordova. I've worked there for 4 years. I have gone out to lunch 95% of the work days and have explored practically every restaurant in a 3 mile radius! Rancho cordova scares me! It's full of disgusting, smelly, criminals.

I feel safe sitting at the Sutter St. station, but I check my back every 30 seconds at Zinfandel.

I sit across from homeless people almost every day (I ride my bike and the homeless guys like to nap on the big seats). This morning a guy tried to sell me his hat for $1. Four times he tried. No, I don't want your smelly hat! Now leave me alone!

I never dealt with people like that in Folsom until Light Rail came to town. Perhaps I haven't spent enough time under the bridge or "down by the river". But they weren't in my face, begging for my hard-earned money. I've spoken with Sutter St. merchants who say the homeless population has increased, and they get more and more vagrants hanging around their stores and trying to use their bathrooms. Customers have complained and crazies have stormed through.

This is a side effect of Light Rail, undeniably. The useless crap of the world have been given a free ride into this happy little boondock prison town. Sure, I'm no long-term resident, but when I moved here most of the criminals were actually in the prison! It used to take owning a car to get here, at least reasonably quickly, and I think that created enough of a barrier to keep the garbage out.

Hopefully Folsom PD can keep up with the increased pain. I, for one, think it's worth it. I love my morning commute, even if I don't need a new hat. I also love this town, even though I've only been here for 2 years. I hope these useless scum of the earth don't ruin the secluded feeling of security that Folsom provides! I hope we don't lose one of the biggest reasons I moved here.

[Kevin_F]

The useless crap of the world have been given a free ride into this happy little boondock prison town. 

Beware. Chances are, somewhere there may be a person who thinks of you as "worthless crap".

[DrKoz23]

Beware.  Chances are, somewhere there may be a person who thinks of you as "worthless crap".

You may believe this... but at least Mylo pays for his ticket to ride on light rail.

There has got to be a better way to deal with making sure those who are riding the train actually have a paid ticket. I am almost 100 percent sure the homeless aren't paying to get on the train.

[ducky]

I don't think you're a piece of worthless crap, mylo. I think you have valid concerns regarding the homeless. Nothing wrong with being proud of our city the way it is. I also don't like being accosted to "GIVE ME A QUARTER!" I don't want to have to adopt my big city no-eye-contact attitude in Folsom. If that makes me an elitist, so be it.

Also, a very good point about the free riders on the light rail. There has to be something that can be done.

[bordercolliefan]

Yesterday, my hubby saw a couple of homeless (assumed because of the garbage bags they were toting) get off light rail at Iron Point.  He kept an eye on them as they moved through the factory outlets peering into cars.  Later he followed or found them up at the Safeway/Chevron parking lot where they were accosting people trying to get money.  They were actually following ladies to their cars as they panhandled.  They were still peering into cars throughout the parking lot.  The kids from the high school were giving them money after school.

Let's face it, the reports from Tessieca and others, above, are scary. We do not need to feel ashamed of being concerned about the homeless/criminal element that Light Rail is bringing to Folsom. This is not "elitism": this is simply our legitimate interest in having a safe community for our families.

Let's hope that the Folsom Police are responsive to our concerns and begin dedicating patrol officers to the Light Rail stations. We need to send a zero tolerance message to ne-er-do-wells seeking to make mischief in Folsom.

[s0479]

As far as police presence....I ride the light rail every day (I get on/off at Iron Point). I have definitely noticed some "characters" getting off there and going over to the outlets....mostly bringing attention to themselves because of their loud talking and bad language. I have been out of town for a week or so but before that I did notice that almost every time I got off in the afternoon at Iron Point there was a Folsom Police officer there. I'm hoping that continued presence will deter some people.

[Kevin_F]

You may believe this... but at least Mylo pays for his ticket to ride on light rail. 

There has got to be a better way to deal with making sure those who are riding the train actually have a paid ticket.  I am almost 100 percent sure the homeless aren't paying to get on the train.

Now THAT is something I can get behind. Instead of whining about the homeless, lets do something that not only addresses that issue but also the wider issue of freeloaders that only contribute to the cost overruns of transit. I would be thrilled to see better measures to ensure payment on the train. I have ridden the train dozens of times since its inception and I have had my ticket checked once. There were RT Transit cops riding on at least six different cars I can remember, and only one bothered to check tickets . . . and that was at the Hazel stop on a day when there were only six or seven people in the whole car.

Granted, I'm not naive enough to think that checking tickets would fix all of the financial troubles of the light rail system. No transit system in the country would work without government subsidies, including this one. However, I don't like feeling like a chump for paying for my ticket every day only to see high school kids jump on and off all day without paying.

Anyone ever get a straight answer from RT as to why they didn't install turnstiles in the first place? Heck, why can't the Transit Cops check every time they're on the cars rather than the obscenely rare occasion?

---


And to clarify my earlier, long-winded rant, I don't think that the homeless are something wonderful to have around. All I was objecting to is any opinion that lumps homeless individuals, PEOPLE, with much less desirable parts of society simply because they are homeless. I would much rather tell someone that I don't have a quarter for them and send them on their way than face a clean, well dressed man with a gun asking for my wallet (which has happened to me on two occasions -- you're not the only one that has ever been mugged, Mylo). And for those of you who think that homeless = lazy, I sincerely hope that if you ever find yourself in such a desperate situation that you are lucky enough to find help from someone far more compassionate than yourself. Try living with no money and no shelter for a week, or even a day. There is nothing lazy about it. How are you supposed to pull yourself out of that when every waking moment is spent trying to survive? And yes, for the severely alcoholic, drinking is part of survival. Anyone who has even been to the depths of alcoholism, and I mean the bitter bottom of the barrel, will tell you so.

[mylo]

From Sacbee: "Folsom targets homeless"

http://www.sacbee.co...-14644252c.html

[Justasmalltowngirl]

quick note - Homeless does NOT = bad in all cases

[tessieca]

Quicker note: people who are concerned about an influx of ill-kempt, bothersome, public peeing, panhandling nuisances (homeless or full of homes) are not living in ivory towers nor are we a "worthless piece of crap." Instead we simply want to maintain a safe and healthy community in which to raise our children. That's why we moved here. We have the right to direct our public officials to direct their paid police staff to protect the community from nuisances as well as dangers.

[Kevin_F]

Quicker note: people who are concerned about an influx of ill-kempt, bothersome, public peeing, panhandling nuisances (homeless or full of homes) are not living in ivory towers nor are we a "worthless piece of crap."  Instead we simply want to maintain a safe and healthy community in which to raise our children.  That's why we moved here.  We have the right to direct our public officials to direct their paid police staff to protect the community from nuisances as well as dangers.

The original comment called homeless people a "worthless piece of crap", not the homeowners and residents of Folsom. My comment to Mylo that someone might think of him the same way was not meant to be a personal insult . . . I don't know Milo, therefore I cannot form any solid opinion about him. It was more of a general admonishment against identifying any class of people as being any one thing (i.e. a piece of crap) and the fact that if one labels other people as something, it is virtually guaranteed that someone feels the same way about them. If it came off as an insult, I apologize (especially to Milo).

As to your second point, not only do we have the right, but we have the responsibility to direct our public officials to provide those services that we feel is best for the community. It is public decency which demands that people, any people, be treated as humans and not trash. That is my point more than anything else. They are not crap, they are not trash, they are not monsters. They are people. Undesirable and undesired they may be, but they are still people.

[BlueStateMom]

It was more of a general admonishment against identifying any class of people as being any one thing (i.e. a piece of crap) and the fact that if one labels other people as something, it is virtually guaranteed that someone feels the same way about them.  If it came off as an insult, I apologize (especially to Milo).

Interesting that Mylo gets an apology, when he is the one that referred to homeless people as "worthless crap" and "garbage". The people he refers to in that disgusting way will never hear an apology. Sadly, it says a lot.