190 replies to this topic

[Steve Heard]

I've signed up on a few lists to take in a family, but haven't heard anything yet. I've also e-mailed several of the churches and other organizations that have been set up as shelters; again, haven't heard anything yet. I've e-mailed all of the major network stations, the Louisiana Governor...  asking how the information is getting to victims...Hopefully, the only reason we haven't had our offer taken advantage of is because of the distance... Hopefully offers within a closer range of the disaster areas are being taken advantage of. Not sure if anyone wants to come to California, but if the choice is sitting in a shelter indefinitely, I'd think being in a home would be more attractive. I'm not sure HOW the information regarding home offers is getting to the victims. Do they have access to the Internet in these shelters? Do the volunteers in the shelters have time to sit on the Internet looking for homes for the victims? Even if you were willing to fly a family out, if they don't have driver's licenses or other ID on them, would the airlines let them fly? We've also donated cash to the Red Cross.

Steve, do you have any information as to how victims who fled are being connected with available homes? What are you hearing from your friends and family?

I'm afraid I'm not going to be much help here. My family is scattered around the South. A few with friends or family, but most others in hotels.

I have a group of 6 at one hotel (3 pairs) and they have someone looking for an apartment for them to rent together.

We've been trying to get relatives to come out here, but everyone just seems to want to go home.

I've been told that the red cross is trying to provide placement services, but imagine it to be slow going.

[Terry]

It's not advisable to be walking outside when a hurricane is about to hit.  If you're caught outside during a hurricane, it's highly probable you'll get killed or injured by flying debris.

Again, I'm talking about the original evacuation notice. The video/pictures I saw of people driving out of NO when the first evacuation notice was given showed dry, partly sunny, little wind and no apparent impediment to people walking out. In fact, the people on foot could probably have gotten somewhere safe as fast or faster than those stuck in traffic.

[forumreader]

Resume Lady and tessieca (& her sister): It is so encouraging to hear of your generosity!

I know that many of us are praying and sending money, but it is a special service to take someone into your home.

[Steve Heard]

Again, I'm talking about the original evacuation notice.  The video/pictures I saw of people driving out of NO when the first evacuation notice was given showed dry, partly sunny, little wind and no apparent impediment to people walking out.  In fact, the people on foot could probably have gotten somewhere safe as fast or faster than those stuck in traffic.

Surely you jest. How far can one walk in one day? 20 miles? 30? That storm was a lot bigger than 30 miles and a lot faster than you could walk.

[Farley]

Surely you jest. How far can one walk in one day? 20 miles? 30? That storm was a lot bigger than 30 miles and a lot faster than you could walk.

Wouldn't the heat also be a factor in how far one could walk. I understand it was very hot and humid.

[Brett911]

How long is that article?  Can you paste some of it here?  I really would rather not register with Sac Bee and for some reason bugmenot is not working for me.

Are there maps?  Do they show the potential flood area zones?  Do they discuss what the potential threat would come from, etc. ?  Any statistical data in the article?

download BugMeNot 0.6.2 for Firefox and you'll never need to register for a p/w again. Someone posted abou it here recently when Steve switched to Fox. check for that post to get the d/l location. it rocks!

[Deb aka Resume Lady]

Resume Lady and tessieca (& her sister):  It is so encouraging to hear of your generosity!

I know that many of us are praying and sending money, but it is a special service to take someone into your home.

I wish we would get a call or e-mail so we could actually do it. My heart breaks to see these people suffering.

[matt]

Surely you jest. How far can one walk in one day? 20 miles? 30? That storm was a lot bigger than 30 miles and a lot faster than you could walk.

They really only needed to be able to walk as far as the dome so they could at least be out of the flood zones and in a more substantial structure than an apartment or house.
If the storm wasn't as bad as was expected and warned about or changed course, then they could just walk back home when it was over.
The ones who could ride a bus or had access to rides in cars could go elsewhere further out to more comfortable surroundings than the dome.

[Deb aka Resume Lady]

They really only needed to be able to walk as far as the dome so they could at least be out of the flood zones and in a more substantial structure than an apartment or house.
If the storm wasn't as bad as was expected and warned about or changed course, then they could just walk back home when it was over.
The ones who could ride a bus or had access to rides in cars could go elsewhere further out to more comfortable surroundings than the dome.

On the other hand, those who went to the Superdome had no water, no food, nothing. Those who stayed home (if they didn't lose their homes initially) may have had some sort of subsistance until the waters got too high. And those who went to the Convention Center -- because they had been informed that was the place to be -- were invisible to FEMA until yesterday; no one knew they were there.

[matt]

On the other hand, those who went to the Superdome had no water, no food, nothing. Those who stayed home (if they didn't lose their homes initially) may have had some sort of subsistance until the waters got too high.

Doesn't matter. So they would have been less hungry for awhile until they died in the storm or drowned later or needed rescuing. The risk of staying in the homes that were either completely destroyed initially or flooded out later was worse than going without food for a few days. The storm and the flooding were not unforseeable when they had been warned so severely about the risks.

[Steve Heard]

They really only needed to be able to walk as far as the dome so they could at least be out of the flood zones and in a more substantial structure than an apartment or house.
If the storm wasn't as bad as was expected and warned about or changed course, then they could just walk back home when it was over.
The ones who could ride a bus or had access to rides in cars could go elsewhere further out to more comfortable surroundings than the dome.

Are you kidding? Over 20,000 went to the Dome! It was just as bad or worse there! No toilets, roof blown off, people fighting for survival, turning on one another.

Stop blaming those poor people for their plight. Sure, there were some knuckleheads. The rest were trapped.

[matt]

Are you kidding? Over 20,000 went to the Dome! It was just as bad or worse there! No toilets, roof blown off, people fighting for survival, turning on one another.

Stop blaming those poor people for their plight. Sure, there were some knuckleheads. The rest were trapped.

There is no way that being in a crowded Dome with broken toilets is "as bad or worse" than dying or sitting the floodwaters with no usable toilets there either.

The people that were too poor to buy a bus ticket for themself and their families and had no cars and no friends or relatives available to give them a ride and had disabled bed-ridden elderly parents they were taking care of and whatnot and various other scenarious that made it impossible to get out, were trapped. Few of those thousands were in that situation.
So, I do understand that "some" of the people had reasons they were stuck and trapped in town, but most of the people I've seen on tv that were asked what they were thinking simply said they thought the storm damage wouldn't be as bad as it was and ignored warnings to get out of there.
The majority of people could have left and elected not to and that action/inaction has made this into a much bigger disaster than it would have been otherwise.

[jagayman]

Jason,

People may be caring for elderly parents, children, and other loved ones.  Perhaps their cars were wiped out during the storm, or they can't fit everyone in the family vehicle, and they're staying there to protect their loved ones. 

Would you simply leave your loved ones behind because you happen to be able bodied?

Many people did heed the warning by going to the Superdome to take shelter.  There are really 2 incidents here.  One is the storm itself, and NO has been through many storms; the other is the levee gave way - noone in NO has been through that. 

Perhaps a number of folks, ie. engineers, those that fully understood the implications of the levee giving way, etc. knew what was coming, but I doubt you can apply that to the general population.

On 9/11/01 it was a similar situation, we had experienced planes crashing into tall buildings before in NY, but no building had ever gone down as a result of a crash.  Mainly because skyscrapers were built to withstand crashes from known aircraft at the time of their design.

Sure, building designers, engineers, etc.  those in the know, realized that those buildings could come down, but you can look at the images from 9/11 and see that the general population, police, fire, emergency crews, etc.  was not aware, as they stood outside looking up at the buildings.

I'm sure that there are some folks that could have left and had the means and time to do so, but felt that it was unfathomable that the levee wouldn't hold.

Sorry if I didn't make myself clear. Certainly, folks can't leave their infirmiated 80-year old grandmother behind.

I am complaining about those who can walk away from the situation to a better place.

I didn't see anyone forcing these folks to stay in NO. And if the buses can get in, they can walk out.

The glass is half full because of some volunteers and disaster recovery agencies doing their best to help folks out, yet they are complaining that the glass is half empty.

I'm sorry, I'd be in there taking care of myself and my family. If I had kids, I'd carry them on my shoulders. The last time I checked, you can walk for free. I guess whining is easier for some.

Jason

[jagayman]

I agree.  And I'm going to get into some deep doodoo by what I'm going to say next.  Given the demographics of NO in general, I would suspect that those who chose to stay were relying on the government to give them whatever help they needed whether they chose to leave or chose to stay.  These are the same people who are demanding things now and will for some time to come.  And these people have probably been living on government programs for their whole lives and possibly generations of lives.  In a nutshell, they have their welfare worker programmed on their speed dial.  They can't, don't, and won't help themselves by getting out, and now want us (the government) to fix all that ails them.

And don't start down that "race" road.  I said nothing about race here, I'm talking demographics of NO.

I totally agree with you, Terry.

Whether you have compassion for these people or not makes no difference. I had plenty of compassion for folks on Day 1. Their incescent whining of the horrible aid they have received has weakened my whining somewhat because it is becoming clear that these folks won't stop their whining until someone comes in and builds them a perfect brick home right where their old house stood and brings *warm* food to their door again. Even though it could happen again.

Likewise, if you build your house in a flood plain in California at ground level without flood insurance, and a flood takes out your house, you loose. When you gamble, you take the chance of loosing. Period. You could have built your house on stilts, on a berm, on higher land, in a different location, away from a levee, etc... This isn't a question of *if*, it is a question of *when*.

And when you start thinking man can defeat nature forever, you head down a dangerous path.

Jason

[jagayman]

Surely you jest. How far can one walk in one day? 20 miles? 30? That storm was a lot bigger than 30 miles and a lot faster than you could walk.

The average adult can walk 3 to 4 miles an hour. The days are about 13 hours long. So 39 to 52 miles in a day. Baton Rouge in two days. Higher ground in hours.

Heat wouldn't factor into it, that's why you drink and sweat.

You would burn some calories, but walking burns it slow enough to rely totally on fat reserves.

And with the mass exodus, you could probably hitch a ride in the bed of someone's pickup.

Jason