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Taxes are going up!


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#1 April

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Posted 03 December 2002 - 11:47 PM

I'm posting this just in case some missed the news lately. We are no doubt going to have higher taxes in the very near future, as there are no easy answers to the state budget shortfall. So, when you get your bills the first of the year, you may see added taxes to cover the shortage.
This was bound to happen as our state budget was hit hard by the past energy shortage and the added services we've needed for security to prevent Terrorist Attacks. Plus an added bill that was just passed to provide Affordable Housing for the low income and the poor.
We all want to do the right things, but sometimes when the payment for it comes due, it's a question of where to cut and where to raise taxes. I'm sure we will see both.
We will see education cut, maybe police services cut, and who knows what else. I'm just sad to think of the jobs that may be lost.
Ya just can't rob Peter to pay Paul!

From The Sacramento Bee...........

Battle lines on budget form as session begins
By Jim Sanders -- Bee Capitol Bureau
Published 2:15 a.m. PST Tuesday, December 3, 2002

California legislators returned to work Monday to face what is likely to be the worst
budget crisis in state history.

Dire warnings of unprecedented fiscal pain tempered the fanfare and back-patting that
traditionally accompany the beginning of a two-year legislative session.

Assembly Speaker Herb Wesson, re-elected to the post Monday, urged lawmakers to toss
aside partisan politics in fighting a projected deficit of at least $21 billion next year.

"That's a hole so deep, and so vast, that even if we fired every single person on the state
payroll -- every park ranger, every college professor and every Highway Patrol officer --
we would still be more than $6 billion short," Wesson said.

Extreme philosophical differences over the budget surfaced Monday, with Democratic
lawmakers balking at prospects of closing the gap through program cuts alone and
Republican Party leaders adamantly opposed to tax increases.

"There isn't any doubt in my mind that this is a spending issue, not a revenue issue," said
Assembly Republican leader Dave Cox of Fair Oaks.

"I have no intention of voting for tax increases under any circumstances," added Senate
Minority Leader Jim Brulte of Rancho Cucamonga.

But Assembly Majority Floor Leader Marco Firebaugh, D-Los Angeles, said Democrats
won't pass a budget balanced by cuts alone.

"The kinds of cuts we'd need to make would be so devastating that we won't stand for it --
and I don't think the people of the state would, either," Firebaugh said.

Added Wesson: "Mathematically, we can't do it without revenue enhancements. It would
be irresponsible."

Rapidly forming battle lines over next year's budget shortfall, which potentially could hit
$30 billion, nearly overshadowed the greeting Monday for 39 newly elected legislators --
32 in the Assembly and seven in the Senate.

Republicans gained two Assembly seats and one Senate seat in last month's statewide
balloting. But Democrats continue to hold a strong majority in both houses, controlling 48
of 80 Assembly seats and 25 of 40 Senate positions.



#2 camay2327

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Posted 04 December 2002 - 08:48 AM

Most people can't complain. They voted crook Grey Davis back into office.

Cal sad.gif
A VETERAN Whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount "up to and including their life". That is HONOR, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it. -Author unknown-

#3 jake

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Posted 04 December 2002 - 09:04 AM

I'll complain. I voted for Simon!
"You've got to be very careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there."
-Yogi Berra

#4 EDF

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Posted 04 December 2002 - 11:09 AM

Yea... watch the paper for all the wailing and nashing of teeth coming out of the "liberal" left. The sky is falling... the sky is falling.

If you are educated at all on what is going on in this state, then you know the reason we are going through this is the poor job of our elected politicians and illegal immigration.

If you notice all the hew and outcry is over the "affordable" health care and education for the poor (illegal immigrants). Thats why the highways are clogged, schools are over crowded and you get voice mail when you call a government agency.

Just keep voting for the liberal goo goo types who want to spend your money they way they see fit if you want the status quo. That's why you will get more and more taxes heaped upon us...

Think what you could do with the extra money that you will now have to pay for utility costs, dmv fees and I could go on and on....

Reminds me of ... W A S S..... WE ARE SO SCREWED




#5 April

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Posted 04 December 2002 - 06:52 PM

edf.........you couldn't have said it better!
For those who don't know the facts, go to this web site and get educated.

http://www.cis.org/a...99/back299.html

Although it may be read by others, who will say we are bashing the immigrants, the fact is, there are only so many houses, so much water and so much public money to provide for them.
Many are quick to jump on the band wagon and vote in more of our tax dollars for the needy, but they have to understand they will be making some sacrifices. Taxes are already at their all time highest in history....the question is, how much do we all want to pay? How many services are we willing to give up?



#6 EDF

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Posted 04 December 2002 - 09:20 PM

In addition to the Center for Immigration Studies...

check out this site... its Glen Spencer's group American Patrol

http://www.americanborderpatrol.com

The information is out there... Illegal Immigration is affecting our incomes.. over burdening our health and welfare system... I could go on and on... We are importing poverty... why?

#7 April

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Posted 05 December 2002 - 01:07 AM

edf..........What would you do if you owned a big company, a very very big company, and saw your
profits go down due to imported products from over seas selling cheaper? You’d move
your company over seas and get the cheap labor and be able to dump toxic waste where
ever you wanted, plus not have to pay taxes. Then what would you do if you started
having trouble with the locals, because they caught on to what you were doing and they
lost their zeal to work hard for your company? You’d see that your plan wasn’t working
out. Then you’d get with other corporation owners and go to congress to pass bills to
place more of that cheap labor in the United States, because that is all you’d be after,
cheap labor. Remember that “Sweat Shop” they busted a few years back in New York?
And the one they busted here in Sacramento? Well, I think there are a lot of them out
there and the people they employ, at dirt cheap wages, are immigrates. They get paid
under the table and collect Welfare checks to boot. And they can because there is no
paper trail to prove they are working. Inspectors are paid off to keep quite and
everybody’s happy. Or are they?

In my opinion we have a two fold problem in this country, and one of them is “Corporate
Greed.” They buy votes to get bills passed that will make them more money. We’ve
seen a few of those kinds of companies of late, in the news. They really don’t care about
anything but their bottom line.......profits. Even the high tech companies went to congress
this year to ask for more “Visa’s” to enable foreign workers to come here and work at
cheaper wages than they would pay U.S. born workers. They also back groups who say
they represent the poor. A few hundred thousand to get some bills passed for the poor,
and the tax payers foot the bill for the rest....like the 5 Billion that is going to go to build
houses for the low income and the poor this year. They can get their cheap labor right here
at home, and we help them with our taxes.

The second problem is what you stated....the irresponsible way our elected officials run
this country. It’s “Pork Belly” politics as usual and it just may take our country down.
The Terrorist Attack on the World Trade Center should be proof that we are not safe and
will probably be dealing with these kinds of attacks for a very long time, if not all out
World War Three. If anyone thinks differently, they are kidding themselves.
The first thing that should have been done after that attack was to freeze all immigration
and patrol the borders with everything we had. But that did not happen, did it?
The second thing that should have happened was to stop all imports until we had the man
power to check cargo and air freight the right way, not one box out of fifty. But we didn’t
do that either, did we? Ask yourself why it wasn’t done? Are we asking to die???
In my opinion business as usual and making profits has become more important to our
government and big business than human lives. So what if several hundred thousand die in
another attack, we’ll import more people from other countries! No problem!
There’s plenty of people around the world to replace us. We are just the worker bees.
I know that is a strong statement, but remember when we were told to invest in the stock
market and get out a shop, and not be afraid of Terrorist, right after the attack? This
proved to me that the big corporations were running the government to the point of
having our leaders announce messages like that over the news. They didn’t want to lose
money. Instead of the government doing the right things, they told us to ignore the threat
and go about our business like nothing happen!!!! Oh sure, easy for THEM to say, with
their armed guards and their bunkers underground.

I think what most people in this country care about the most is their safety and the safety
of our loved ones. I think a lot of people have been changed by the WTC attack...I know
I have. I would not mind giving up a lot of what I have for the feeling of security we used
to have. But I’m afraid we’ll never see those days again. The Terrorist have proved they
are very patient to kill Americans.
Our country could be self sufficient if we had to be. There’s enough food here for us,
without importing any, if we stopped putting our farmers out of work. There’s enough
land to grow cotton and enough of a work force to weave fabrics if we needed to.
But a lot of the products we buy are made elsewhere, and those companies would lose
money if we were self sufficient.
During World War II America had to ration and pull together to win that war, but now we
are a global economy, and everything is different. When it comes to buying things you
can’t hardly find anything that has been made here. This has weakened us.
My mother used to tell me, when your playmates get too rough, come home....game over.
That’s how I feel the United States should be. But since the all mighty dollar is
worshipped so much by the big Corporations, we will just keep on with business as usual.
Taxes will go sky high, we’ll get more attacks on our soil and more immigrates will come
here, some will be good people and some will be Terrorist to lay wait, and attack us at the
first opportunity. And we can’t tell the difference between them!
But our leaders think another war will solve the problem, and it won’t. It will just make
money for those who manufacture the weapons, jets and rockets.
It’s really very simple if you follow the money and who is making money. That explains it all. Always has, always will. The drug companies are going to make billions on the Small Pox Vaccines, gas masks are big sellers and survival kits are selling like hot cakes, and the weapons industry is making money hand over fist!!
But if we put everything we had into being a stronger country, by being self sufficient, we wouldn't have to have a war and millions wouldn't have to die.
But we'll go do some bombing and tear up another country, then go back and spent billions to repair it. Our government is crazy....plain and simple.



#8 NRB

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Posted 05 December 2002 - 12:26 PM

April, interesting post! While I generally disagree with your position on most issues, I, surprisingly, find myself in agreement with you on some of the points you brought up above. I agree, wholeheartedly, that our Government in crazy. Any entity that puts the value of the dollar above the well being of it's people deserves such a label. I no longer believe it matters if they are Republican or Democrat. The partisanships have practically crippled our government to a point where nothing ever gets done! It's all about them versus us when all parties should be working towards one common goal... A better America! I also agree that we would only help ourselves if we became a more self sufficient country. In my opinion the first step would be to reduce our dependency on oil both foriegn and domestic (we may differ here). We have had the technology for well over 20 years to run our cars without the use of gasoline. Why don't we use it? Could it be that the oil companies are just like the pharmacutical companies, you mentioned above, and all they care about is money and not the good of the people? Would we be considering a war right now with Iraq if we weren't dependent on oil? It's worth a thought! We have some of the best and the brightest minds living right here in America! Why else would terrorist send their like to be educated here? As far as I am concerned I think it's about time that we start taking advantage of their talents and find a way to make America a country to be admired instead of loathed! As always...just my opinion!


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#9 April

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Posted 05 December 2002 - 05:29 PM

Thank you, NRB. I’m not surprised that you usually don’t agree with me and that’s OK, I
won’t hold it against you. ha! ha!
I totally agree that we should get away from gasoline driven vehicles and push for some
other way to power our cars. The fact is, the big oil companies have bought the patents
on much of the advanced technology providing alternative sources for powering our
vehicles, thus, crippling it’s use.
And yes, there is evidence that points to the fact that this pending war could be over oil,
rather than weapons of mass destruction held by Iraq. And that, in itself is crazy because
we have untapped oil reserves on our own soil. But, the fact is, the big oil companies
have invested in the over seas oil and will not give it up at any cost or the number of lives
it may take. So millions may die in war, because of their bad investment policy.

I too balk at the partisan politics and wish our leaders would quit wasting time attacking
each other’s views and get down to the business of running this country better. But I fear
it’s an intentional way of sidetracking us from seeing their abuses, and a lazy way to
defend their own position. You know, if their position doesn’t stand on it’s own merit,
they attack the other person for belonging to opposing party. I use the word, “Liberal” to
describe what some would call the idealistic groups, who feel there should be no borders
and no laws concerning immigration. And also for those who don’t feel that along with
freedom comes responsibility. (Before the Soviet Union turned into a Democracy, they
were told where to work and live, and could not adapt after the change. In fact, many
wanted to go back to the way it was before because they could not take responsibility for
themselves, when they had to look for employment on their own.)
As one Mexican immigrant I spoke to recently said, “Americans are too trusting and too
much in a hurry to help who ever says they need it. Sometimes, I feel the Americans get
themselves into trouble because they are so native.” I agreed with him. And surprisingly
he was strongly opposed to giving illegal aliens amnesty, as he felt he had gotten here the
legal way and it was insulting to him that others would be able to have their crime of being
here illegally, forgiven, and granted a legal status. Many immigrants agree with his
feelings, but are not heard in the news. They feel that California is being ruined by the
illegals here in California and consider them criminals and low life. I’ve lived and worked
with many Mexican people who have come here legally and made good lives for
themselves and their families. They are hard workers, and are embarrassed by those of
their own race who come here to break the law. They say they want the illegals out,
because they don’t care about themselves or this country.

I feel our first responsibility is to the people who are here illegally, as they have respected
our laws and worked within the system. But sadly, many who cross our borders are
criminals seeking to break more laws, often through selling illegal drugs, or fraud and
other crimes. We are far easier on our criminals here, than the officials are in Mexico. To
them, our prisons are like Country Clubs, so even if they get caught, they feel their life is
better here, as their punishment is so mild compared to Mexico’s.

As many have been so quick to remind me of the fact that our country was developed by
immigrants, they fail to understand that we are in different times today. Those immigrants
of the past were here to help start a new country, and had left their home countries with
the intention of never going back. They understood they would be part of something new
and rejoiced in that. Today, our laws and government are already set up and the feeling of
the immigrants is not one of building a country and being a real part of it. So they don’t
have the feeling of being connected as the immigrants of old did. I don’t think we can
dismiss that as an important factor of the differences today and the difficulty our present
day immigrants have with assimilating into the system. But our social services are wearing
very thin and we are not currently prepared, nor do we have the funds to deal with the
masses of immigrants coming here. That’s just a fact, not a judgment.

There are presently huge problems trying to educate, house and employ immigrants today
and it is mostly the fault of our government not handling their needs adequately. The
federal government has laws in place that impede the power of the states who have
immigration problems.
To just house them, feed them and give them a job at WalMart is not enough. Our
teachers are still trying to figure out how and when to teach immigrant children English,
and unsure if it should be before Kindergarten or after. Special education is expensive and
when you are dealing with a dozen different languages to teach, it’s going to get even
more expensive.
So the question is, how to do what is needed without over burdening the tax payers.
Clearly, one answer is to limit the amount of immigrants entering this country. But that
hasn’t been done. Another would be to empower all low income people by making it
easier for them to get training or education, so they could get on their own sooner, rather
than being supported on public assistance for a long period of time. If their status here
were temporary and they faced deportation if they didn’t get employment by a certain
time, they would try harder, but that idea is unpopular with many. As the law concerning
immigrants is set by the Federal government, the problems and paying for them is at the
state level. This makes it very hard for border states dealing with the problems of the
mass immigration. Our Welfare Dept. is only now beginning to help train and educate the
Welfare recipients with “Welfare Reform”, as it has been proven that just handing people a
check does not work. Plus the massive fraud in the Welfare system has taken much of the
badly needed funding, that could be helping others. I think most would be astounded at
the dollar amount involving fraud.
Heavy taxation was the reason this country fought against British control of the Colonies.
We are being taxed more now, than we were then, and have more laws that limit our
freedoms, than ever before. I invite anyone to look this information up before they judge
it. And I want to thank you NRB, for your civility in responding to my earlier message.
It’s refreshing to know that some people can make comments against another person’s
opinions, without personally attacking the person they disagree with. I think if truth be
known, most of us agree more than we disagree.


#10 NRB

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Posted 06 December 2002 - 12:07 PM

Here! Here! I think if people made it a point to "agree to disagree" and did not take a difference of opinion as a personal attach, we would all make better friends and neighbors! smile.gif

P.S. An apology to Webmaster for getting off topic! cool.gif
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#11 webmaster

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Posted 06 December 2002 - 01:12 PM

No worries...
It's pretty close to the topic at hand - my general rule of thumb is that if it has totally spiralled to something not even remotely close, I'll suggest to start a new thread, that's all! smile.gif
MyFolsom.Com Message Board Tip #3
To view all new threads in the last 24 hours, Click on "Today's Active Topics" from the forum index.

#12 EDF

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Posted 06 December 2002 - 04:13 PM

To April and NRB....

I for one think partisanship is healthy... its only the Liberals who claim to hate it... but they are the most vicious in their attacks...

The Clinton crowd were the worst...

Back here at home... this problem we have here is a symbiotic relationship by the one world socialist let everyone in that can get here crowd and the country club billionaires that want cheap labor...

I think Ross Perot was right... Many of the US companies moved their business just across the border... I mean like right across the border where they have no enviromental hassles.. workmen's comp.. forget it... retirements.. not there... just cheap labor that is glad to have a job... then they sell their product right back across the border and a bigger profit...

People have to be aware of this and take the "big picture"... Rome didn't fall in a day... they fell over time because they no longer had morals and they let all those hordes of illegal immigrants into their country... plain and simple...

Kosovo is a perfect example where you have a country, Serbia, that lost its state of Kosovo because Albanian immigrants moved up north and eventually became the Majority... so what happens... civil war...

I have a video that I got from Americanpatrol.com entitled ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION DESTROYING THE BONDS OF OUR UNION. In one segment they show the illegal mexicans in LA beating up on American Citizens while the LA Police stood by. If you got to. www.americanpatrol.com you can order these videos on line... you will be shocked...

Harold Martin a school board trustee in Orange County wanted to pass a resolution at their school board to bill the State and Federal Governments for the costs of educating the illegals... boy was he vilified in the press...

By the way... our good conservative friend in Congress... Doug Ose is for open borders.. I bet you folks didn't know that...

We the American voter and taxpayer have to be vigilent and iinformed... maybe some of the folks that read these posts will stop watching SITCOMS and start watching FoxNews or reading from the internet like the DRUDGEREPORT... CIS.ORG (center for immigration studies).. AmericanPatrol.com its out there if they really give a hoot about America...

#13 April

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Posted 07 December 2002 - 12:57 AM

Well, although I agree with most of what you are saying, I couldn’t help but think about
our president, George W. Bush, and how he was so chummy with the president of
Mexico, right before the WTC attack. Also how he was going to give amnesty to the
illegal immigrants, and HE is a Republican. I couldn’t understand that at all.
Here our state is being driven into the red, more every year, and he wants to give them
amnesty?
I believe if it walks like a duck, and sounds like a duck.......then it’s a DUCK!
And the way he talked, proved to me he was a DUCK, not a Republican.
I judge people by what they have done, not by what they call themselves.

We’ve been losing the battle of trying to keep illegals from crossing the border for years,
so it was certainly no secret to our president how the situation was cutting very heavily
into the California state budget. Pregnant Mexican women wait until they are having birth
pains and then run across the border. The tax payers have to pay for the delivery of their
baby, and this is happening to the tune of several women each day. So how our president
could ignore this problem, and still have the nerve to announce he was going to give
amnesty to hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants, here in California, was beyond
me.
From what I’ve seen, I believe that a politician will say or do whatever will make him get
the votes. But the really interesting thing is, George W. Bush did NOT get the votes from
California he needed! I thought THAT was very interesting!

Also, it’s not just the illegal immigrants that are using the public funds to eat, get housing
and medical care...it’s the legal ones as well. Look on “Google” under the estimated
number of legal immigrants on assistance today. They come here and can’t speak english,
and don’t have even a high school level education, so can’t get a job. Many become so
depressed, they commit suicide! It’s a bad, bad situation.

I think that a lot of middle income families will start moving out of California because they
will not be able to afford to live here. That will leave the low income families and the rich.
Why? Because the rich can afford to live here and their taxes are less than ours because
they shelter their income to avoid paying tax. The low income people will get help from
the same group that sued Folsom, plus other groups that help the poor and low income.
This will result in fewer and fewer taxes going into the state coffer, and more and more
taxes going out for the low income and poor services. This can not have any other result
but a larger and larger budget deficient....as we are seeing now.

The tourist dollars won’t help the state much because our tourist attractions are being
over run by the homeless. Anyone been to Santa Cruz lately? It’s sad to see, let me tell
ya. The homeless are all over the place! And I won’t even go to Disneyland, because it’s
in L.A.....a sewer in my opinion. We made the mistake of going to Marine World last
summer and it was very disappointing. Everything was very over priced, it was dirty and
run down and the service was crap. I’ll never go again.

As a side bar.....on the news a few nights ago they were reporting about the lack of
affordable housing here and interviewed a woman who had just moved here from Ohio.
She said she couldn’t find any housing she could afford....and at that point, I just had to
shake my head. Would anyone with half a brain move someplace if they didn’t know what
the rent rates were????? Geeeez! Come to think of it, she didn’t look too bright. I hope
she has enough money to get back home. But she’ll probably get referred to the Welfare
dept.

As I write this, we are cutting school funding, park maintenance, Medi-Cal and laying off
thousands of civil service employees.........but there will be no cutting the funds to house
and support the low income and the poor because that is a law that was just voted in,
amazingly.
Of course every person they lay off means that person will not be paying any income taxes
until they get another job, and jobs are not too plentiful right now.
We’ll probably be able to see a line of people driving out of here very soon! It would interesting to call a U-Haul Rental place and ask if there is an
increase in one way rentals out of California. I‘ll bet ya there are!
I just wonder what the state is going to do when this all comes to a head? I mean when
things get so bad, that the state can not function. Should be interesting reading from
where I’ll be at in Nevada.

#14 cybertrano

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Posted 07 December 2002 - 09:54 AM

Clinton - u got what u voted for ohmy.gif

#15 April

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Posted 07 December 2002 - 03:21 PM

I for one, didn't vote for Clinton....didn't like him from the moment I saw him. I wouldn't have ever let my daughter go out with him, if he were single and I had a daughter. Call it a gut feeling, but I knew he was a crook from the first. He got into office from the votes of the women, who thought he was cute. I heard enough of them always talking about him being so handsome, and had to carry around antacids to keep from puking.
I felt like slapping them, they were so stupid!

I never voted for Bush either. I was a Nader fan. Still am.
The man has a lot of sense and doesn't believe in wasting money. He also doesn't believe in "Pork Belly" politics. Nobody would have to worry about him taking a pay-off. AND, he believes in a limited government, meaning he doesn't feel our government should be in the business of running our lives. But since he doesn't have a "STAR" type personality, I doubt he will ever get into office. Our country seems to want a movie star for president.

But with our political party mentality in this country, I think we won't see the masses voting for the "MAN", for many years yet.
It will be a party thing, as usual. (I lock horns with my brother over this subject all the time, but he stills loves me tons, and I him.)

The number one problem with most Americans is, we don't think independantly.....it may be unpopular. We have become "Sheeple" instead of PEOPLE, to our shame and regrets.




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