33 replies to this topic

[bordercolliefan]

This story is truly horrifying and devastating. I just can't stop thinking about all those young people, trapped in flames, unable to find their way out. It sounds like something that would happen in a Third World Country, not here in the U.S.

I believe someone will (and should) go to jail for this. The owners of the building insist that "no one was living there," but I think they knew and looked the other way.

It is a reminder that deadly fires really can still happen. All of us have lived in questionable places during college and afterwards (I lived in a triple-decker in a town we affectionately called "Slummerville" [Somerville, MA--now very gentrified!]). With 2 kids approaching college age, I will try to pay attention to the safety of places they might choose to live.

[folsom500]

Truly a tragic 3rd world type situation in Oakland.    I do not know if there had been other warnings or city knowledge of issues in this warehouse, but

  It would be impossible for a city to fully be aware and have knowledge of every unsafe situation within that ( or any ) city... 

[bordercolliefan]

Truly a tragic 3rd world type situation in Oakland.    I do not know if there had been other warnings or city knowledge of issues in this warehouse, but
  It would be impossible for a city to fully be aware and have knowledge of every unsafe situation within that ( or any ) city...

The city had several complaints that should have tipped them off. Illegal trash and debris piling up, noise at all hours... apparently they had tried to enter and inspect, but had been turned away at the door. So the city was aware that something was going on, but perhaps they should have acted with more alacrity.

[Who_Do_You_Trust]

This seems to be a convergence of many failings - 

 

1)  The economics of living in a big urban city force some people to seek out "housing" that is something far less than adequate, but affordable.

2)  Building owners will do the minimum to maintain their buildings.  It's all about money.

3)  Cities have building codes for a reason.  They should be enforced on a regular basis, but aren't.  People complain about high taxes, then they complain about the lack of city services.  Again, it's all about money.

 

and here's the saddest part.  A $20 bill to buy a couple of smoke detectors at Home Depot would have saved most if not all of these lives.  Common sense took a holiday in Oakland. 

[2 Aces]

Buildings like this exist all over America RIGHT THIS MINUTE.

 

I suspect that city building inspectors are somewhat fearful of being too aggressive as far as inspections go. You have NO IDEA who is in there, and since they don't make that much money, why would we expect them to risk their lives? So what ends up happening is that the inspector sends letters to the owners...and you know what the owners do with those letters, right?

 

And it's not a law enforcement thing...they have more important things to do...until the place burns down in a fiery inferno.

 

Oh, and *smoke detectors*?? Please. The staircase was made out of old wooden pallets and collapsed. And it would have collapsed if the smoke detectors were there and people rushed to get out. Would have made ZERO difference.

 

[Deb aka Resume Lady]

Truly a tragic 3rd world type situation in Oakland.    I do not know if there had been other warnings or city knowledge of issues in this warehouse, but

  It would be impossible for a city to fully be aware and have knowledge of every unsafe situation within that ( or any ) city... 

Tips regarding fire hazard/unsafe conditions and that people were residing there were made to the city...I believe in November. Inspectors went out, but couldn't gain access....and never went back. They should have followed up.

 

 

Here's a link to an article that indicates the city missed several opportunities to discover hazardous conditions at this warehouse: http://www.mercuryne...-at-ghost-ship/

[Who_Do_You_Trust]

2 Aces - 

 

The purpose of smoke alarms is to give early warming of a fire or smoke.  A few smoke detectors in this warehouse would have detected the fire when it was size of a couple sheets of paper and provided a warning.  Smoke alarms are very sensitive.  Try it yourself.  light a piece of paper in a room with a smoke alarm and I bet it will go off within 30 seconds.  plenty of time to evacuate and long before the fire spreads to anything in the room.

 

Every building code in the country requires smoke alarms and it must be for a good reason.  the data show that the death rate in homes with smoke alarms is less than half that of homes without smoke alarms.   Here is a link to the NFPA website that shows the data -

 

http://www.nfpa.org/news-and-research/fire-statistics-and-reports/fire-statistics/fire-safety-equipment/smoke-alarms-in-us-home-fires 

[bordercolliefan]

Certainly smoke alarms would have been good, but there were multiple factors that contributed to the tragedy.

A witness reported on the radio this morning that the entire place was engulfed within 3-5 minutes. He said it was an unbelievable firestorm, no doubt because the building was filled with old furniture, carpets, pallets, etc. The witness also reported that the interior was a true rabbit warren of cubbies, rooms blocked off with plywood, makeshift lofts, etc. He said the lights went off within a minute of the fire starting, leaving everyone trapped in a pitch-dark unfamiliar maze with no idea where the exits were and lots of dead ends.

Hearing his harrowing account makes one realize the rationale for many fire code regulations, including multiple exits with LIT exit signs, a sprinkler system, and clear wide corridors.

[2 Aces]

Hearing his harrowing account makes one realize the rationale for many fire code regulations, including multiple exits with LIT exit signs, a sprinkler system, and clear wide corridors.

 

Well, considering that this building was, for all intents and purposes, an ABANDONED building, good luck having it comply with all the usual regulations. Ain't gonna happen.

[4thgenFolsomite]

they said bodies were found in groups of two, four, six, huddled together and on top of each other, indicating they likely never maddest off the second floor and crashed together in a huddle to the ground floor.

 

prescient name for the place...it appears to be a true Ghost Ship now.  awful.  

[bordercolliefan]

Well, considering that this building was, for all intents and purposes, an ABANDONED building, good luck having it comply with all the usual regulations. Ain't gonna happen.

It was not an abandoned building. The owner has been identified, and was collecting rent for the building as a "24 hour artist work space." This individual (for some reason I think it's a woman) said that she had "no idea" artists were living there.

Also, there was a house manager who lived there with his wife and children. He collected rent each month from all the people living there, which he then paid to the owner. The tenants were under instructions to hide evidence they were sleeping there if anyone came to inspect.

I think someone should, and will, go to jail for this.

[Deb aka Resume Lady]

It was not an abandoned building. The owner has been identified, and was collecting rent for the building as a "24 hour artist work space." This individual (for some reason I think it's a woman) said that she had "no idea" artists were living there.

Also, there was a house manager who lived there with his wife and children. He collected rent each month from all the people living there, which he then paid to the owner. The tenants were under instructions to hide evidence they were sleeping there if anyone came to inspect.

I think someone should, and will, go to jail for this.

 

 

Yep!

[2 Aces]

Let me clarify: The *original purpose* of this warehouse was ABANDONED some time ago. That usually leads to problems, especially in particular cities in America. I can think of several people who should be held accountable, and Oakland City Hall should not be exempt.