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United Airlines - Renamed To Gestapo Airlines

United Airlines Republic Airlines Overbooking Forced deplaning

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#16 Steve Heard

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 11:03 AM

Here's the question no one seems willing to answer:
If overbooking or whatever causes a need to bump someone (40,000 were last year) and the decision is made as to who needs to get off the plane....but that person then refused to leave...what then?
After pleading and whatnot, what force CAN be used?

 

I think that both passengers and employees are so frustrated and angry with each other these days, that it's easy for tempers to flare. I know this is going to make me sound old, but...

 

Up until the 90's, which doesn't seem so long ago, flying was relatively easy.

 

One could get dropped off at the curb, and after passing through the x-ray machine, head to the gate. You could be accompanied by someone who wasn't even traveling, who could hang out with you until your flight departed. In fact, lots of folks, me and my folks included, might go out to the airport and go to a restaurant or bar and watch the planes take off, no ticket or ID needed. On board, you could take a couple of carry-on bags, free of charge. You were entitled to a meal on flights over a certain length, again, free of charge. 

 

Also, airports were smaller, and easier to get around in, and you could walk outside of many and easily get to your rental car. 

 

Security started getting tighter after the Unibomber started terrorizing and threatening airliners.  Suddenly, ID was required, along with a ticket, to get past security. One interesting by-product was that it killed the secondary ticket market, where people would sell tickets they couldn't use, and one would travel under the purchaser's name.

 

Airlines started managing their inventory so they could maximize profit. I remember when United cut one of their flights from SFO to Honolulu after realizing they were taking enough non-revenue (employees, their relatives, frequent flyer tickets, etc.) passengers per day to fill up a single plane.  By cutting it out, they made it more difficult for non-rev flyers, and frustrated frequent flyers who had saved up points for that trip to Hawaii. 

 

After 9/11, the Shoe Bomber, and a couple of airport attacks security got so tight, it was causing flight delays and flight misses.  

 

Airlines started limiting carry-ons and charging for checked bags. Meals were no longer free. They started cramming more seats in per plane. 

 

So, today, you're advised to get to the airport 2 hours before a flight, to account for traffic delays, parking and waiting for a shuttle or dropping off a car and waiting for a shuttle, checking your bags, getting through security, which includes taking off shoes, might included and turning on electronics. You may have your bottle of wine confiscated. Then you wait.  You wait for the plane to arrive. You wait for them to call your group for boarding. You wait in the jetway. You wait while someone in row 5 tries to cram a bag into the overhead bins. You may find that you're not seated with your traveling companion, or that the overhead bins are full, or you're seated next to someone unpleasant. You wait for the plane to take off, and there's no air conditioning until you're in the air. You have to go to the bathroom. 

 

There's usually a bit of fear as well over the safety and helplessness of being in a plane.

 

All of this is also frustrating to the employees that have to listen to a couple hundred complaints about the situation every day. 

 

Anyway, after you go through all of that, you're told you have to get off the plane and won't be able to reach your destination, your job, your vacation, your cruise, until the next day, because they've got some employees on the 'must fly' list. 

 

I guess that can be a bit irritating.  

 

My wife and I were taking the kids to Disneyland some years ago, and we saw that the flight was scheduled for 90 minutes. It used to be an hour, but the airports and skies are crowded now. 

 

To take an noon flight, we'd have to arrive at the airport at 10, which means leaving Folsom at 9 and fighting commute traffic. Our flight would arrive at 130, and after getting our bags, we might be getting on a shuttle to get a rent a car by 2pm. In the car by 230.  At the hotel by 3, just in time to for check in.  Total time, 6 hours. 

 

We decided to drive. It took slightly longer, but it sure was less frustrating. 

 

Air travel today sucks. 


Steve Heard

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#17 bordercolliefan

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 12:15 PM

You've pretty much covered it, Steve.

Obviously we can't go back to the pre-security days, but we could go back to the pre-overbooking days. Remember when a lot of middle seats on airplanes were empty, and often you'd be lucky enough to have two seats to stretch out?

I often get the sense that the gate agents and flight attendants are on the verge of their own kind of rage (the new "going postal"?) Maybe they have good reason. The airlines have made some policies that are terrible for the staff. Consider, for example, the $50 checked bag fee. Predictable result: every passenger tries to bring on a suitcase and stuff it in the overhead. The flight attendants are tasked with either helping to jam it in, or carrying the bag up to the front of the plane for "gate-checking." I'm sure when they got their name tags and fashionable flight attendant dresses, they never imagined that they would be turned into de facto baggage handlers.

#18 2 Aces

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 12:36 PM

Airline should have started with an announcement to the entire plane and then increased the $$ amount until 4 people took it. I'll bet once it hit around $1,200 or so and a hotel room, people would have started to volunteer. Like an auction. Problem solved with no lawsuit or international outrage. Simple stuff. I'll bet that will be the process from here forward...maybe for ALL airlines.



#19 Who_Do_You_Trust

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 01:15 PM

 

 

 

My wife and I were taking the kids to Disneyland some years ago, and we saw that the flight was scheduled for 90 minutes. It used to be an hour, but the airports and skies are crowded now. 

 

 

 

Steve,  actually the time of flight from here to SoCal never changed.  the reason the flight time changed from 60 minutes to 90 minutes was because the airlines were gaming the system.  Here's how:

 

Several years ago, the FAA started publishing a monthly "On Time Arrival" rating for all airlines.  It showed what percent of their flights arrived on time for the prior month.  The idea was to give the customers some information where they could select an airline that had the best on-time-arrival performance.  The airlines responded by adding 30 or 60 minutes to every flight arrival time.  So even if the plane was 30 or 60 minutes late, it would still show as "on time" as far as the rating system went.  Magically, every flight was now "on time", so the rating system was useless.   It created a problem for customers because they would tell the people picking them up at the airport what time the arrival was scheduled for. Then sometimes they would land 30 or 60 minutes early, and they'd have to wait around for their ride to show up.  The customer gets screwed, while the airline get a stellar rating for on-time-arrival.    

 

Nice, huh?



#20 bordercolliefan

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 01:50 PM

I noticed that, too! All of a sudden it was common to "arrive early." It definitely seemed like they built in a buffer so then the pilot could proudly announce the flight was arriving early.

#21 The Average Joe

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Posted 12 April 2017 - 02:02 PM

Just wanted to add a long time ago flight experience to contrast it with today. In 1986, I had bicycled across Colorado. We had gotten to the Denver airport very early. We boxed up our bicycles to airline standards, and got in line. Apparently, Continental (or Frontier, O can't remember) had just gone bankrupt and all their flights were cancelled. The line for our checkin was incredibly long. About an hour into the wait, and about another hour and a half to go judging by the speed, a gate person walked the line asking if anyone was headed to LA. We said yes, and he nearly panicked. He literally told us to RUN through the airport to our gate and he would take care of the bikes. There we areactually RUNNING through the airport. No security, no boarding pass, just our tickets. We get to the gate as they are closing the door. They open the door and hustle us in. As we grab seats, the plane starts moving. I see our bikes on a cart being driven towards the plane. The plane actually STOPPED about 40 feet from the gangway and they loaded our bikes onboard. Absolutely amazing service by everyone from gate person to pilot. Definitely way above and beyond. Contrast that to the current treatment of customers.

 

Another quick example. In the 70's, I was on a 12 hour flight to Germany. Many seats were vacant, so we took turns laying down. Very nice flight. Contrast with the worst flight ever to Jamaica. 6 hours of incredibly cramped, smokey flight. The back section was supposed to be smoking as it was an international flight, but the smoke was so bad the Captain got on the radio and said that even the smokers were complaining and asked everyone to refrain from smoking for the duration. Very unpleasant for us non-smokers. Ugh.

 

I have also done some work at SMF. In the 90's, you had to do a 3 hour security orientation before you could go "behind the scenes." You only required an escort on the actual flightline. Last time I was there, it took 1 hour to proceed through all the security checkpoints and various locked corridors to arrive in the terminal (where the ticketed public was). I was under visual observation at all times. My tools had to be under my direct observation or control at all times. I had to lock the door every time I went in or out and had to have my escort unlock it every time. There was constant radio chatter about who was moving where. I asked what would happen if I had to use the restroom. We would have had to lock everything in a room, and he would have had to escort me inside even though it was just across the corridor.  Another hour trip to another room. A half hour to get to the administration, and a good half hour back out All that standing time, both myself and my escort were paid a ridiculous amount.

 

Point being, I'm not sure how much more secure we are, but they can certainly point to a lot of measures designed to deny access to people who have already passed a DOJ check and background security.

 

Share your worst/best airline story.


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive" -- C.S. Lewis

 

If the only way to combat "global warming" was to lower taxes, we would never hear of the issue again. - Anonymous

 

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one" — Thomas Paine, 𝘊𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘚𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦 (1776)

 


#22 Who_Do_You_Trust

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 06:29 AM

Joe - good stories.  

 

I've got just a quick story - Back in the heyday of Southwest Airlines ('90's?) I was in Burbank waiting for a 3:00pm flight departure.  Inbound was late and showed up at 2:40pm.  The gate agent vowed that the flight would depart "on time".  I couldn't see how that was possible.  Then I watched the pilots get out of the plane and help load luggage.  Amazement!  And damn, that plane left on time.  I should have video'd it for posterity.  (But phones didn't have cameras back then)



#23 tony

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 09:16 AM

One more plug for SW. They may have started as the "cattle car" of airlines, but nowadays, they seem to be the only one that makes an effort at real customer service. Between the free checked and carry-on bags, a frequent flyer program that you can actually use, and no-hassle changes in flights, they have become our airline of choice. Used to fly American, Northwest and United with some frequency because it was too hard to fly SW to the eastern half of the country. Dumped American when our kids were small and American dumped pre-boarding for families with small children. Quit United for a variety of reasons (delayed in Chicago one too many times, etc.). NW took care of themselves. Ironic isn't it that SW made a name for itself by dumping meals and serving only peanuts; now the other airlines don't even give you peanuts (and SW actually offers a variety of snacks)!



#24 Who_Do_You_Trust

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 10:53 AM

The joke has been that Southwest actually does have a First Class service - TWO bags of peanuts.



#25 nomad

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 12:53 PM

Southwest has a great business model. They used to only do short flights with frequent stops and quick turn-arounds. They also have many of the same model aircraft which allows for mechanics everywhere to be trained and skilled in repairs anywhere which saves money.

 

My only beef with them is that they pretty much own the Sac to Vegas route and they seem to have doubled the airfare for that route compared to similar distance destinations because they know people will pay it instead of going to Stockton or Oakland to try and save a few buck on the airfare. 



#26 The Average Joe

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Posted 13 April 2017 - 05:46 PM

DOn't Southwest employees own about 15% of the company? A vested interest is a strong motivator for performance.


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive" -- C.S. Lewis

 

If the only way to combat "global warming" was to lower taxes, we would never hear of the issue again. - Anonymous

 

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one" — Thomas Paine, 𝘊𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘚𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦 (1776)

 


#27 4thgenFolsomite

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Posted 14 April 2017 - 05:39 AM

The Chicago police are going to pay a heavy price for this guys injuries in the lawsuit. United will pay for setting the scene, but the Chicago airport cops were violent and sloppy.
Knowing the past helps deciphering the future.

#28 The Average Joe

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Posted 15 April 2017 - 07:40 PM

Chicago cops violent and sloppy? Say it ain't so!

 

http://abc7chicago.c...bility/1289831/

 

http://abc7chicago.c...bility/1289831/

 

https://www.theatlan...-online/504233/


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive" -- C.S. Lewis

 

If the only way to combat "global warming" was to lower taxes, we would never hear of the issue again. - Anonymous

 

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one" — Thomas Paine, 𝘊𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘚𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦 (1776)

 





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