52 replies to this topic

[Chris]

I'm thinking no long guns for home defense unless it's a shotgun.  AR's in .223 scare me if I am your next door neighbor.  Don't assume passing through walls always.  .223 will go through car doors and sheet rock pretty easily.  Through your window into my window and then into my kid using .223 is life threatening.  For handguns and home defense make sure you are using lead tipped bullets, frangible, or hollow points.   No full jacketed or military ball ammo.  Most importantly, make sure of your target before you shoot and be aware of what is behind your target before you take that shot.   Regards, Chris

[caligirlz]

Really interesting that you should mention the AR15. In anticipation of the rumor of guns falling off the california single shot exemption list, I was looking at other alternatives, and asked a knowledgeable friend what they recommended for HD in addition to a handgun. They recommended the AR15. I had to chuckle cuz I just cant see myself using that gun. Then, the friend invited me to go shooting with his AR. It shall be interesting,

Rifle (AR15 type):

pros: very precise. quick to aim (less proficiency than handgun required). effective rounds. multiple rounds before reload required. easy and quick to reload. round generally tumbles and becomes ineffective after passing through barriers. minimal recoil - easy to manage for quick follow-up shots if required. proven reliability.

cons: harder to maneuver relative to handgun. not a good choice for corners.

 

For me, in my house, in my location, I would choose an AR first with handgun backup. 

 

Caligirl, you want to use something like a jacketed hollow point (JHP) for handguns. Gold Dot is a popular brand.

 

Whatever one chooses, it only counts if you can hit the attacker. I recommend you try shooting each choice at a range that allows you to shoot quickly, shoot multiple targets, shoot moving targets, shoot while moving etc (all the things you might be doing in a real situation) at different distances you deem appropriate for scenarios you think likely.

 

Different people in different environments in different situations call for different tools and tactics. Try before you buy.

 

 

 

I've been out a few times to an outdoor range, and to the indoor range on Watt Ave (they rent guns). I agree with the statement try shooting each choice at a range that allows you to shoot quickly, shoot multiple targets, shoot moving targets, shoot while moving etc (all the things you might be doing in a real situation) at different distances. I look forward to doing so.

 

I was out on sunday, and tried several more concealed carry type guns (in order of preference):

1) Springfield xd40 (4" and 3") - feels perfect in my hand, and am very accurate.

2) glock 26 - I've shot this before, it felt better this time. Not as unbalanced. Shots have always been accurate, but this time I hit the metal tree target at 25 yards.

3) S&W shield - ok, nothing special, not very accurate for me. This is one of the top CCW guns

4) Luger LC9 - ugg, awful. Long trigger pull. Hated that thing as much as the 38 revolver. But, it's another popular CCW guns due to the size.

Also have tried:

Springfield 1911 .45 - loved it!

another glock dont remember the number. I'm not a Glock fan.

38 revolver. no way. Hated it.

I havent shot any long arm guns for a long time. I used to skeet shoot in my 20's and that was a lot of fun.

[caligirlz]

 

For handguns and home defense make sure you are using lead tipped bullets, frangible, or hollow points.   No full jacketed or military ball ammo.  

 

Most importantly, make sure of your target before you shoot and be aware of what is behind your target before you take that shot.  Agreed, this is taught in handgun safety classes, and is a question on the firearm safety test.

I've heard about the hollow points. Thanks for the other tips.

[ghost35me]

I'm thinking no long guns for home defense unless it's a shotgun.  AR's in .223 scare me if I am your next door neighbor.  Don't assume passing through walls always.  .223 will go through car doors and sheet rock pretty easily.  Through your window into my window and then into my kid using .223 is life threatening.  

 

I would tend to disagree and suggest some additional research based on actual test results. You may find that 223/556 is actually better for stopping criminals and no more over penetration concerns that typical handgun calibers.  I agree that 223/556 can pass through certain barriers. But they may also be more apt to tumble as well, especially when passing through soft materials.

 

If you find that 223/556 is more effective at stopping a threat and poses no more adverse penetration risk than handgun calibers (and again, perhaps even less depending on material), would you change your mind?

[Chris]

 

I would tend to disagree and suggest some additional research based on actual test results. You may find that 223/556 is actually better for stopping criminals and no more over penetration concerns that typical handgun calibers.  I agree that 223/556 can pass through certain barriers. But they may also be more apt to tumble as well, especially when passing through soft materials.

 

If you find that 223/556 is more effective at stopping a threat and poses no more adverse penetration risk than handgun calibers (and again, perhaps even less depending on material), would you change your mind?

Not for me.  I have a Sig 556 and I love it but it's for 100 to 300 meter targets for me.  Off hand I am pretty good at 200 meters, can hit a 12 by 12 inch plate pretty much every time.   AR for home defense does not make sense for CA because you need a bullet button legally if you did not already have that gun from years ago registered as a RAW.  I hate bullet buttons, they are awkward, slow you down, and in the dark good luck changing out a mag.  Regards

[ghost35me]

 

I was out on sunday, and tried several more concealed carry type guns (in order of preference):

1) Springfield xd40 (4" and 3") - feels perfect in my hand, and am very accurate.

2) glock 26 - I've shot this before, it felt better this time. Not as unbalanced. Shots have always been accurate, but this time I hit the metal tree target at 25 yards.

3) S&W shield - ok, nothing special, not very accurate for me. This is one of the top CCW guns

4) Luger LC9 - ugg, awful. Long trigger pull. Hated that thing as much as the 38 revolver. But, it's another popular CCW guns due to the size.

Also have tried:

Springfield 1911 .45 - loved it!

another glock dont remember the number. I'm not a Glock fan.

38 revolver. no way. Hated it.

I havent shot any long arm guns for a long time. I used to skeet shoot in my 20's and that was a lot of fun.

 

All name brand choices. All are accurate. Each could be effective and you could become proficient with each. It comes down somewhat to personal preferences. I would try them each some more. But I would seriously consider a Glock (many reasons why). The Shield is popular (although I would not get the CA version); I've tried them quite a bit and they are accurate and easy to manage. I'd still choose a Glock but the Shield does have its merits.

[Chris]

Too bad about the Ruger LC9, never held one but I like the looks and size of it.  Interesting about the S&W Shield, never heard of it.  I had an S&W M&P 45 for awhile.  Loved the gun, loved the feel in my hand, and sight picture, shot great except after 10 or 20 rounds it would jam, fail to feed and fire. Tried different ammo types, same thing.  Put several hundred rounds though it to break it in but no deal.  Well lubed and cared for but a no go...  Sent it back to S&W to fix.  Got it back, same problem.  Sold it off as a "problem" gun at a loss.  Went and got a Sig P220.  Never had a failure to fire yet.  Super hand gun.  Same with my HK USP in 40 cal.  Super hand gun, never fails to do anything and just goes "bang" when I pull the trigger.  Regards  

[Tyto Alba]

The S and W "Shield" is a smaller frame version of the M and P.   The larger framed "M and P" models have a better feel.     The "shield" model is the only M and P available to buy new in California right now.  You can buy a used large frame M and P that was originally purchased in Ca.    Glocks are also nice guns and are very accurate.    You will like the Glock more as you get used to the weapon.

 

I recommend an Auto hand gun for self defense.   9 mm is a good caliber and the rounds are better priced which could result in more practice at the range.

[caligirlz]

 

 But I would seriously consider a Glock (many reasons why). The Shield is popular (although I would not get the CA version); I've tried them quite a bit and they are accurate and easy to manage. I'd still choose a Glock but the Shield does have its merits.

Why Glock?

How does one get a non-Ca version? You can tell me via PM

I will most definitely continue to try new options. I still need to decide on a carry gun.

 

Too bad about the Ruger LC9, never held one but I like the looks and size of it.  

Went and got a Sig P220.  Never had a failure to fire yet.  Super hand gun.  Same with my HK USP in 40 cal.  Super hand gun, never fails to do anything and just goes "bang" when I pull the trigger.  Regards  

I agree about the LC9 since it's so small. I had a sinking feeling from the start that the super small guns were not going to work for me. and I was right.

My instructor had an HK that he loved. I do not remember the model, but he did not recommend for carry (the class was CCW)

 

My previously mentioned friend recommended for me, the S&W air weight, and Sig Saur compact

I also found out some of the other Springfield XD's I was considering for carry, are not ca compliant

 

Glocks are also nice guns and are very accurate.    You will like the Glock more as you get used to the weapon.

 

I recommend an Auto hand gun for self defense.   9 mm is a good caliber and the rounds are better priced which could result in more practice at the range.

On the Glocks, I know the model # does not reflect the size. I've shot the 26, and I think the 19. What would be the smallest size for carry?

What's the difference between auto vs semi-auto for handgun, and what is an example of an auto handgun?

 

Can someone explain what the california single shot exemption really means?

I just checked the http://certguns.doj.ca.gov/  and see that both Springfield Armory and S&W have renewed their status/contract, or whatever you call it.

 

On a side note, about the ammo. I bought a couple of boxes of Blazers S&W 40 at STS this week, $22/box. Cost at Sportsmans Warehouse in Rancho is $18/box. I'm not sure, but I would assume that some of the other local stores recommended to me (Ammo Depot in RC & a couple of places up the hill) will not beat the online price which is $12/box at gunslick.

[Tyto Alba]

Caligirlz,  My mistake.   I should have said Semi Auto pistol.  A full auto gun keeps firing rounds when the trigger is pulled.   Semi Auto fires one round as the trigger is pulled once.

 

Go to STS guns on East Bidwell.  The personnel there can anwser any question pertaining to gun laws and the State of California.   I do know the gun manufactures have to renew a contract with the state of california to sell a certain model.  For example,  the Smith and Wesson M and P "Shield" small frame is the only M and P you can buy new in California right now.    In all the other states,  all the M and P models are available to the civilian buyers.    

 

Again if you want a larger frame M and P,  you can check the used market for one that was originally purchased in California.   Some of the M and P models were available in the past (not now today in Ca.) and they are owned by civilians and ownership can be transferred legally.       Law enforcement personnel  are exempt and can buy most any model (new) handgun by the manufacturers in Ca.

 

You said you bought .40 ammo.  The Glock Model 22 is the .40 caliber hand gun.   I am not sure about the smaller framed version Glocks but the shield 9mm would be perfect for CCW people or basic self defense.     9mm are much easier and faster to load up the magazines.

 

Watch this video.  This has information about Glock frame sizes.

https://youtu.be/tLuFmxhTtJk

 

Here is another comparing S and W and Glock.

https://youtu.be/oZVxlT_9UCM

[caligirlz]

Go to STS guns on East Bidwell.  The personnel there can anwser any question pertaining to gun laws and the State of California.   I do know the gun manufactures have to renew a contract with the state of california to sell a certain model. 

 

You said you bought .40 ammo.  The Glock Model 22 is the .40 caliber hand gun.   I am not sure about the smaller framed version Glocks but the shield 9mm would be perfect for CCW people or basic self defense.     9mm are much easier and faster to load up the magazines.

 

I bought my handgun at STS. Super nice guys. It's a much friendlier & helpful shop that Wild Sports. But, all the stores I've been in since about November have been packed to the gills. I don't really want to spend their time, and delay the waiting customer to talk shop.

 

Some of the local shop workers were spreading rumors, unnecessarily, and it caused quite a panic (maybe that was the intent, to increase sales) because no one knew if certain manufacturers were going to renew for the SSE. I found much more accurate info at the http://www.calguns.net/   forum.

 

I'm going down in size to the 9mm for my carry gun, even though I can easily handle the 40 or 45.

Funny about the shield, I don't know if it the one I used hadn't been used much or what, but it was nearly impossible for me to load the magazine, even with a reloader. I gave up. I wasnt going to struggle when there are other carry handguns that have functioned better in my opinion - XD subcompact, and Glock 26.

 

Thanks for the videos. Good info on Glock sizing. I've watched tons of videos, but now I need to practice with the options.

[ghost35me]

As you try the subcompacts like the XD or the 26, I would recommend trying them with a carry load. Something like the Gold Dot 124gr for short barrel. You may see a difference versus using something like Blazer 115gr. The recoil impulse may be different.

 

It shouldn't influence you, especially if you're used to 40. But wouldn't hurt to try first. Not just for the first shot. But how quickly you can accurately get off a second shot.

[Dave Burrell]

Check out a Sig Sauer P238 (380 cal), you might really like the size and handling of that one.

The Gun Range rents them as does Sacramento Gun Club in Mather. 

 

The 1911 .45 model is one of my favorites, great handling and accuracy.

 

Whatever gun you get, make sure it's the one you're most accurate with.

(suggest minimum 9mm)

[Robert Gary]

It's hard to beat the impact of the sound of exercising a shotgun's action.

-Robert

[caligirlz]

Check out a Sig Sauer P238 (380 cal), you might really like the size and handling of that one.

The Gun Range rents them as does Sacramento Gun Club in Mather. 

 

The 1911 .45 model is one of my favorites, great handling and accuracy.

 

I looked the P238 (380) that online. It's a lot like the 1911. I may have to try it out.

It's hard to beat the impact of the sound of exercising a shotgun's action.
 

That's an old wives-tale, that the sound will scare away an intruder.