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Folsom Teacher Put On Leave For Bringing Confederate Flag In Classroom

Racist Past?

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#1 (Folsom Trails)

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 01:11 PM

A Folsom middle school teacher (Sutter) was put on administrative leave for bringing a Confederate Flag into his classroom. It seems he was using it to teach "history". He also had the Union Flag there too. This may become a national story, already on local news with plenty of opposing opinion.

The teacher seems to be a popular one with a lot of parental support. There are also people calling for him to be fired. It seems this same teacher has a past of making insensitive remarks about black people. He one time told students that in the south, to treat blacks with equality meant if you lynched one you have to lynch them all.

 

My question is why was this racist pig even allowed back in the classroom after that? If you support him YOU are sick in your head. :CRAZYLOCO:  So they let him back in and now he brings the flag which offends so many into a classroom under the guise of teaching history.

 

This is a no brainer good people of Folsom. If it was Mr. Kotter or Miss Crabtree bringing the flag in perhaps they could be forgiven for a lapse in judgement. However a man with a racially insensitive past such as this guy has got to go. I don't care how nice or popular he is. There is NO PLACE for this flag to be in the public square. Especially the schools. You are free to fly it or have it in your car etc etc but NOT in a place where THE PEOPLE are ALL represented and paying taxes. PERIOD! :angry:

 

His supporters think kids need to learn history blah blah. Fine, use an effing text book then. Show a picture. That would be ok imo. What this teacher has done is USE the flag for his own racist views while hiding behind a history lesson. Racists do that. Look around. They do it. They act innocent and push the envelope.

All that is well and good. NOT in the public square though. See Niki Haley and what she finally did in S. Carolina. THAT'S where we are and should be in America in 2017. This guy must be fired.

 

Before you react to this ask yourself..If it is ok to bring in a flag representing hatred and slavery to so many and saying it is ok because it's history, then the next thing a clown like this will do is wear a KKK sheet or a Jewish Yellow star because THAT is also history. Think about that.

The rebel flag may not bother you but if a teacher came in wearing the Jewish star forced on them by Hitler you would think differently. Or the KKK hood. OR I can name many other things targeting different groups who have suffered and use "history" as an excuse. How about Black Face? Or and Indian with a scalp belt?  It can go on and on. This bum must go. Period!

:soapbox:

:usaflag:



#2 Chris

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 01:44 PM

Could not disagree with you more Trails  Nothing wrong with bringing that flag to the classroom as a teaching tool.  You can't cleanse history by ignoring it or banning it.  It's a shame what this country has come to under this PC bull c r a p.  What about the Japanese flag from WW2...?  How about the Gadsden flag, you know...  "Don't Tread on Me"...?   The "Rainbow" flag....?   Just try and ban that one and see how far you get...!   Any of those flags I just listed would offend a certain portion of the population for a variety of reasons.  Who gets to decide what flag is "correct" and what flag is "offensive"...?   I think you need to re-think this one.  Chris


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#3 (Folsom Trails)

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 01:54 PM

Chris, the answer then is to offend NO ONE. especially in the public square. The key point I make here is this man has a history. This wasn't a mistake or lapse in judgement. He is now a repeat offender. We must agree to disagree on this one my man.



#4 bordercolliefan

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 02:02 PM

Sorry, Folsom Trails, I think you are wrong here.

My daughter had this teacher. He is known among the students to be a liberal, and they would kind of laugh about how he sometimes let his views show. He's a good guy who is passionate about history. My daughter never saw or heard anything inappropriate.

As for the lynching comment, I agree it was unfortunate. However, from what I understand it has been misconstrued. He was trying to be provocative and raised it as a question: "What is equality? You lynch one black person, you lynch them all... is that equality?" In other words, he was attempting to make a reductio ad absurdum argument to get the kids thinking more deeply. I don't believe the intent was bad. That said, it was clumsy, clumsily stated, and insensitive especially in a middle school environment where kids are so aware of their differences. It was a momentary lapse in judgment, and I have no problem with him being given some training to help him frame the lesson differently.

As for the flag, he has both a Union and Confederate flag and tries to bring history alive by having the kids do role playing and such. At no time (from my understanding) did he express acceptance or allegiance to the values represented by the Confederate flag. It should be noted, the textbook also has pictures of both flags.

This is a rush to judgment. The fact is, teaching about slavery and the Civil War is going to be uncomfortable for some kids, just as teaching about anti-gay bigotry could be uncomfortable for some. I hope we don't abandon efforts to teach the facts (and images) of history so that no one feels "uncomfortable."

#5 2 Aces

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 02:17 PM

WE TOLERATE HATE FROM THE *BLACK LIVES MATTER* RACISTS. WE TOLERATE HATE FROM THE *LA RAZA* RACISTS. THE CONFEDERATE FLAG IS TAME COMPARED TO THOSE RADICAL, VIOLENT GROUPS.



#6 Chris

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 02:20 PM

Sorry, Folsom Trails, I think you are wrong here.

My daughter had this teacher. He is known among the students to be a liberal, and they would kind of laugh about how he sometimes let his views show. He's a good guy who is passionate about history. My daughter never saw or heard anything inappropriate.

As for the lynching comment, I agree it was unfortunate. However, from what I understand it has been misconstrued. He was trying to be provocative and raised it as a question: "What is equality? You lynch one black person, you lynch them all... is that equality?" In other words, he was attempting to make a reduction ad absurdum argument to get the kids thinking more deeply. I don't believe the intent was bad. That said, it was clumsy, clumsily stated, and insensitive especially in a middle school environment where kids are so aware of their differences. It was a momentary lapse in judgment, and I have no problem with him being given some training to help him frame the lesson differently.

As for the flag, he has both a Union and Confederate flag and tries to bring history alive by having the kids do role playing and such. At no time (from my understanding) did he express acceptance or allegiance to the values represented by the Confederate flag. It should be noted, the textbook also has pictures of both flags.

This is a rush to judgment. The fact is, teaching about slavery and the Civil War is going to be uncomfortable for some kids, just as teaching about anti-gay bigotry could be uncomfortable for some. I hope we don't abandon efforts to teach the facts (and images) of history so that no one feels "uncomfortable."

Well said BCF, could not agree with you more.   Chris


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#7 camay2327

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 02:31 PM

If he brought the flag as a tool, I have no problem with it.

I was taking a college course through the University of Maryland, in Hawaii, and the subject was Sociology.
I had to give a speech on gun control in the U.S.

I got up in front of the class with my briefcase and pulled out my old antique revolver.
To make it short, I had everyone's attention.

Yes, I had informed the teacher what I was going to do ahead of time.

I still don't believe I did it. It was on a military base too.
A VETERAN Whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount "up to and including their life". That is HONOR, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it. -Author unknown-

#8 (Folsom Trails)

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 03:57 PM

Thanks all for the feedback. I will address the group. BCF, I am shocked to hear he is a liberal. I already know he is supposed to be very nice and is popular. Taking what you say one must say the man needs some schooling for sure. Big time. Especially in light of his past remarks. Perhaps those remarks could be forgiven if he didn't follow it up with this. I am not buying it.

As Camay said with his gun, he first alerted the school and I assume got permission. This guy did not and why? Because he KNEW what the answer would be. Especially with his history.

 

I have to ask the group about my other examples and if they would feel the same way. If so then expect a teacher to come in with Black Face, history after all. A KKK, costume. A Jewish Yellow Star. Maybe he can have the students have fake tattoo numbers on their wrists too. An Indian with a scalp belt. All History. The Irish, The Italians..maybe dress up as Don Corleone. The Japanese being sneaky for their attack. Muslims etc etc...

 

Come on good people of Folsom. Use a text book and cut out all this. This story may go National. We don't want Folsom known as a racist or racist tolerant town. He needs to be made an example. Folsom is no longer lily white. We are quite diverse and growing. I know people would be quite offended with the above examples so they need to show their offense to this too.

 

BTW, We have a known resident hater right here. Right away throwing up BLM as if it's ok to deflect from the point we are discussing. I have no problem with his flag waving. We are still America. So far. Wait until tomorrow. I fear this election has emboldened haters and would not want my city grouped in with that. We can wave the Rebel flag or burn the American flag. We can take a knee too like Kapernik. What we can't and should never do is be allowed to have this crap in the public square. The schools especially. If S Carolina has come in to the 21st century we must also.



#9 camay2327

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 04:24 PM

Thanks all for the feedback. I will address the group. BCF, I am shocked to hear he is a liberal. I already know he is supposed to be very nice and is popular. Taking what you say one must say the man needs some schooling for sure. Big time. Especially in light of his past remarks. Perhaps those remarks could be forgiven if he didn't follow it up with this. I am not buying it.

As Camay said with his gun, he first alerted the school and I assume got permission. This guy did not and why? Because he KNEW what the answer would be. Especially with his history.

 

I have to ask the group about my other examples and if they would feel the same way. If so then expect a teacher to come in with Black Face, history after all. A KKK, costume. A Jewish Yellow Star. Maybe he can have the students have fake tattoo numbers on their wrists too. An Indian with a scalp belt. All History. The Irish, The Italians..maybe dress up as Don Corleone. The Japanese being sneaky for their attack. Muslims etc etc...

 

Come on good people of Folsom. Use a text book and cut out all this. This story may go National. We don't want Folsom known as a racist or racist tolerant town. He needs to be made an example. Folsom is no longer lily white. We are quite diverse and growing. I know people would be quite offended with the above examples so they need to show their offense to this too.

 

BTW, We have a known resident hater right here. Right away throwing up BLM as if it's ok to deflect from the point we are discussing. I have no problem with his flag waving. We are still America. So far. Wait until tomorrow. I fear this election has emboldened haters and would not want my city grouped in with that. We can wave the Rebel flag or burn the American flag. We can take a knee too like Kapernik. What we can't and should never do is be allowed to have this crap in the public square. The schools especially. If S Carolina has come in to the 21st century we must also.

 

You assumed right. Yes, I was given permission.


A VETERAN Whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount "up to and including their life". That is HONOR, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it. -Author unknown-

#10 Steve Heard

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 04:35 PM

WE TOLERATE HATE FROM THE *BLACK LIVES MATTER* RACISTS. WE TOLERATE HATE FROM THE *LA RAZA* RACISTS. THE CONFEDERATE FLAG IS TAME COMPARED TO THOSE RADICAL, VIOLENT GROUPS.

 

 

 

The Confederate flag in its various incarnations has been used as a symbol of hate and intimidation for about 150 years. It was raised at the State House in South Carolina as an act of defiance against integration. 

 

If the Black Lives Matter Movement has a flag, I'd be just as opposed to that being flown and displayed in the class room, with the exception of what Cal said: 

 

 

If he brought the flag as a tool, I have no problem with it.
 

 

 

Agreed, though I learned about the rebel flag without teachers bringing one them class. 

 

If I were that teacher, having previously been accused of racially offensive teaching methods, I'd probably tread lightly. 

 

When the teacher in question made the remarks about if you lynch one, you have to lynch them all, many folks vilified him and others defended him. 

 

Parents and former students came forward on both sides. Some calling him a kind funny man, and others calling him an old racist who had made remarks in the past about blacks and Asians in the classroom. 

 

The initial report was that a confederate flag was 'found' in his classroom.

 

Now I understand that he had divided the class and one group had to represent the union and the other the confederacy, and both flags were displayed. 

 

If that is true, it seems like an exaggeration of what happened, and a knee-jerk reaction to it.


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#11 bordercolliefan

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 04:35 PM

Did you catch that he has both a Union and Confederate flag... and has been teaching this same lesson for years? He does not advocate for the Confederate point of view.

I applaud a teacher who gets the kids moving around the classroom, makes them voice the point of view of each side, and gets them to talk about it. Much better than dry reading from a textbook.

In the high school, one of the teachers dresses up as King George V every year and makes the kids express the views of, and choose sides of, the Patriots versus the British. Same idea. He also encourages the kids to dress as hippies one day when they are studying the 60's.

History is full of tough dilemmas, harsh conduct, and viewpoints that are no longer acceptable. Better the kids learn to think critically than whitewashing it (no pun intended).

#12 Steve Heard

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 04:42 PM

Did you catch that he has both a Union and Confederate flag... and has been teaching this same lesson for years? He does not advocate for the Confederate point of view.
 

 

 

 

Yes. I noted that. It's not the way the incident was first presented. 


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#13 Dave Burrell

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 04:49 PM

I went to Catholic School and our history teacher (a nun) had us do civil war re-enactments and it was great, learned a lot and remembered it all after all these years. That was an insane racist war, hopefully future students will continue to learn from it.


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#14 bordercolliefan

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 05:02 PM

This is from a post on the Folsom Chat Facebook page. It seems like a large number of parents/kids with direct experience of this teacher vouch for his good intentions.

My daughter is in his class. She said they were actually having fun and learning alot about the Civil War in his class. She said it was very interactive. If he had put up the confederate flag in a science class I would get the suspension. But because he put it up with the Union flag during a Civil War teaching he is totally in the right and deserves his job. If they are going to take down the Confederate flag they should also take down the Union flag and omit the Civil War from being taught. But the Union Flag is still up in his class. I was totally against Mr Hart for the past incident but this one.....not fair!



#15 Chris

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Posted 19 January 2017 - 05:35 PM

As a collector of battle flags, not that I have many because they are rare and expensive, let me tell you that you can own and hold one, show it to others, use it as a tool of learning and a history lesson.  Displaying or owning a flag does not necessarily mean you agree what it stands for.  I have a couple of WW2 Japanese flags that I display proudly in my garage.  I do this because some US soldier captured it somewhere and brought it home.  To me it's a flag of a conquered and evil enemy and it makes me proud to own it.  It honors the men and women who served in the Pacific in WW2 and came back victorious.  And as a student of the US Civil War let me tell you there are many battle flags from all the different states, divisions, and regiments.  And as a lesson in history, if you happened to carry that flag into battle, whether it be the stars and stripes or the confederate flag, you were most likely to be the first one killed.  You attracted a whole lot of lead and very quickly.  The whole idea was to take down that flag, kill the man holding it, and to capture their colors, their flag eventually in battle if you could.  That was the ultimate insult, to lose your regiments battle flag in battle.  It was the trophy of all trophies for the other side.  This history is lost on most folks.  Civil war battle flags rarely come up for sale and when they do they go for hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Anyway, here's the first confederate flag, is this offensive....?  It's all how you look at it, the confederates had many different flags depending on where they were from and who they were....    Chris

 

148_l.jpg

 

Oh, and one of my favorites, the Irish Brigades flag..  Union of course......!

 

lg.jpg


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