80 replies to this topic

[Gwyneth]

I believe it was partly in the telegraph (they quoted it throughout the article) and presented at the last city council meething on June 13th. I'm not sure if it's available to the public except for the quotes in the Telegraph, though.

The petition was sent to Mayor and Council members, as such it is public record. Is it City Clerk that has copies of public record stuff?

[mylo]

I've actually been looking for a muddler. Anyone know a good bartendening supply store around?

We got ours at Target, Wal-Mart has a lot of them too. Those whole "sets". Quite nice, really.

[Gwyneth]

We got ours at Target, Wal-Mart has a lot of them too. Those whole "sets". Quite nice, really.

I'd like to see meaningful discussion about the library continue here. Public input is long overdue. I think people just don't realize what's possible with a thriving library in town.

Advice on muddlers seems to belong in Open Topic, doncha think?

[cw68]

We got ours at Target, Wal-Mart has a lot of them too. Those whole "sets". Quite nice, really.

Really? I was at Target yesterday and didn't see any. I don't need a set, just an 8" muddler (10" would do).

[mylo]

Okay okay, library.

To me, from reading 3 paragraphs in the Telegraph, it sounds like there is a management problem.

I do not believe it should be resolved the way these petitioners are demanding. Sure, throwing resource after resource at the library may improve it. But it may also blow your budget. My first crack about the drink taster was derived from the paragraph in the article where they speak of hiring 3 additional headcount including the director. Wow, what an unexpected ramp-up in resource requirements. Why don't we just throw in the kitchen sink while we're at it, or hire wine tasters like me

Perhaps the solution is to stick a good solid leader at the top, and let them hire, AND FIRE, staff to make the correct adjustments. Management problems are systemic, and some have implied in this thread that it's from City Council down. I personally would like to believe that the library runs as it's own semi-independent unit, and should have a good leader. However, I don't see the justification to throw a dozen people at the problem. That's just too expensive.

Also, the very fact that it's driven entirely from the people that work there shows a very biased attitude towards this. I'm sure you can walk into any fortune 500 company, pull aside a few grunts, ask them which manager deserves to be replaced, and everyone will have an opinion.

I do hope City Council can take this advice, think it thoroughly through, apply public input, and act rationally accordingly. The last thing I'd want to see is City Council to "jump" on this petition and do something ill thought out.

Really? I was at Target yesterday and didn't see any. I don't need a set, just an 8" muddler (10" would do).

Amazon.com has a bunch of them, too. But yeah, it's often something you want to check out in person first

Edited by mylo, 20 June 2006 - 07:29 AM.

[Dave Burrell]

I meant to say Amen to davburr's comment. This library is going to be a major addition to the civic center complex. Modern day libraries strive to be a meeting place for the community. The public should take an active role in demanding quality services, which necessitates excellence in leadership.

My daugher uses the library often and also goes with her friends on occassion to pick up books on hobbies they're working on - I'll always fully support the library, its a great resource and in a way its becoming a lost 'art' - people should read books more instead of becoming zombified by tv and movies.

[bordercolliefan]

My first crack about the drink taster was derived from the paragraph in the article where they speak of hiring 3 additional headcount including the director. Wow, what an unexpected ramp-up in resource requirements. Why don't we just throw in the kitchen sink while we're at it, or hire wine tasters like me

I'm actually always surprised how many people already work at the library. There always seem to be quite a few folks in the back room, behind the front desk. This discussion got me wondering, what do all those people do?

I imagine the most personnel-intensive activity is re-stacking books that are checked in. When I was growing up, this work was done by high school students working for minimum wage. Working at the library was considered a plum-- much nicer than working at McDonalds or a nursing home. Perhaps our library ought to consider employing some high school students.

While I don't claim to have any special knowledge of the inner workings of the library, I too am skeptical of the library staff's petition. I'm sure it is motivated by good intentions, but sometimes people who are close to a situation don't have a good feel for the big picture -- i.e., the City's need to prioritize limited resources to address a wide variety of needs.

This vaguely reminds me of a news story that came out a few months ago about a librarian (somewhere in Massachusetts, I believe) who went head-to-head with law enforcement to prevent them from checking the library's computers in the course of tracking down a potential terrorist who had been doing research on the internet. One commentator said, a bit tongue-in-cheek, something like, "What is a librarian-- whose primary training consists of mastering the Dewey Decimal system-- doing making decisions about law enforcement's access to information that may be crucial to national security?"

Don't get me wrong, I love libraries -- but like all of us, sometimes librarians' perspective is colored by being immersed in their own particular realm.

[daveman]

I'm actually always surprised how many people already work at the library. There always seem to be quite a few folks in the back room, behind the front desk. This discussion got me wondering, what do all those people do?

I imagine the most personnel-intensive activity is re-stacking books that are checked in. When I was growing up, this work was done by high school students working for minimum wage. Working at the library was considered a plum-- much nicer than working at McDonalds or a nursing home. Perhaps our library ought to consider employing some high school students.

While I don't claim to have any special knowledge of the inner workings of the library, I too am skeptical of the library staff's petition. I'm sure it is motivated by good intentions, but sometimes people who are close to a situation don't have a good feel for the big picture -- i.e., the City's need to prioritize limited resources to address a wide variety of needs.

This vaguely reminds me of a news story that came out a few months ago about a librarian (somewhere in Massachusetts, I believe) who went head-to-head with law enforcement to prevent them from checking the library's computers in the course of tracking down a potential terrorist who had been doing research on the internet. One commentator said, a bit tongue-in-cheek, something like, "What is a librarian-- whose primary training consists of mastering the Dewey Decimal system-- doing making decisions about law enforcement's access to information that may be crucial to national security?"

Don't get me wrong, I love libraries -- but like all of us, sometimes librarians' perspective is colored by being immersed in their own particular realm.

I guess I read the article differently then you. It seemed that the library staff wanted a good leader, which would possibly streamline the current situation. If the city is looking at possibly three libraries they will need to have a well run staff to maximize their work output. To address some other issues, at the Library Commission meeting staff addressed (staff attended the meeting to oppose the budget) the new Library Supervisor position stating it was far too much money to pay someone and that a quality library director would have recognized greater needs.

Another issue you mentioned was the staff in the back. If you walk by the window where they work you can see them getting the books ready to go out. Much of the re-shelving seems to be done by elderly that appear to be volunteers.

And one last issue was the librarian not giving out information. As far as I know and I may be wrong cause I don't know for sure. I believe that in CA a library cannot give out any information to law enforcement without a warrant. May be different in mass.

__Daveman the insane caveman__

"What do I know about books, except that someone killed a tree to make it. Damn them, taking our oxygen.

[mylo]

I guess I read the article differently then you. It seemed that the library staff wanted a good leader, which would possibly streamline the current situation. If the city is looking at possibly three libraries they will need to have a well run staff to maximize their work output. To address some other issues, at the Library Commission meeting staff addressed (staff attended the meeting to oppose the budget) the new Library Supervisor position stating it was far too much money to pay someone and that a quality library director would have recognized greater needs.

From the article:
"The city is also faulted for not creating and filling other 'standard' positions, such as circulation supervisor, operations manager, and full-time library technician, among others.".

That's on top of the library director position, and the library supervisor position which is already budgetted.

And one last issue was the librarian not giving out information. As far as I know and I may be wrong cause I don't know for sure. I believe that in CA a library cannot give out any information to law enforcement without a warrant. May be different in mass.

Yes, that issue wasn't about the reach of a librarians authority, it was a stand against warrant-less search and seizure. The librarian was legally correct in his/her actions.

Edited by mylo, 20 June 2006 - 11:51 AM.

[bordercolliefan]

That's on top of the library director position, and the library supervisor position which is already budgetted.
Yes, that issue wasn't about the reach of a librarians authority, it was a stand against warrant-less search and seizure. The librarian was legally correct in his/her actions.

Actually it is far from clear that the librarian was legally correct.

First, the terror threat in question was for THAT DAY. There is a question of whether the FBI was entitled to immediate access to the computers based on a doctrine of threat of immediate harm.

There was a second issue of whether the FBI should have been able to access the computers under the doctrine of "evidence of a crime in plain view" -- seeing as how the computers were in a public place.

I don't know the answers to these questions; my point is, neither did the librarian. Yet she chose to put thousands of innocent people's lives at risk while denying the FBI access to the library computers. One wonders whether the American Library Association (or whoever) would still be praising her actions if bombs had gone off and killed people.

[mylo]

Perhaps they need to hire a Library Security Advisor position too?

[Gwyneth]

From the article:
"The city is also faulted for not creating and filling other 'standard' positions, such as circulation supervisor, operations manager, and full-time library technician, among others.".

The Telegraph reporter who wrote that article was sloppy and didn't check his facts. The section in Mylo's post above was not quoted, but rather paraphrased by the reporter, and he made mistakes.

The library already has an operations manager who makes more than $80,000 a year. The director of admin services wants to add a library supervisor position to "assist" the operations manager. That's all public information, you can find it on the city website.

The library commission and the staff and members of the public are asking the city to scrap the supervisor position and hire a library director instead. This should have been done when the last director left three years ago. Apparently someone in the city did not feel any particular experience or knowledge was required to run the library. I guess they were wrong.

As for any other positions requested - the library is moving from the old building into the new building which is three times as large. I hear this could happen as soon as December. I'm assuming these additional positions are to handle the expected increase in business.

[mylo]

So, what's the major difference (besides spelling) between the supervisor and director positions? Just money, or that someone currently has the supervisor position?

[Robert Giacometti]

Perhaps they need to hire a Library Security Advisor position too?

I'll do it as a consultant..... for only $139,000 a year, I don't have any experience....but I do know some people by their first name and those I don't know..... can wear a name tag!

So by hiring me for this position we'd be saving the city $1000.00 per year....over the going rate for consultants who have no experience.

Besides we could then start another thread on how we should spend that $1000.00 savings.

[daveman]

So, what's the major difference (besides spelling) between the supervisor and director positions? Just money, or that someone currently has the supervisor position?

I believe the supervisor is an assistant manager type position whereas the director oversees the entire department. For a $60,000 library supervisor and a library manager that makes over $80,000, I would say a single director making less then those two combined would save money, assuming they scrapped those positions with the hiring of a director or hire some low level employees with the difference.


__Daveman the insane caveman__