68 replies to this topic

[ducky]

I looked up the Sacramento Superior Court case that Maestro referenced above, and, I have to say, I don't believe I've ever seen anything like it before and hadn't heard about this.           The caption is City of Folsom, Plaintiff v. All Persons in Any Way Interested in the Matter, Defendants.  It relates to the water supply.  

Can't read any of the complaint or judgment because of the lines through the documents due to the new online system at Sac. Sup.  Edit:  Found how the Proof of Service was done by reading through the lines.  They published it in the Sacramento Bee.  Wonder why it wasn't published in "The Folsom Telegraph."

 

That Folsom Telegraph article from 2001 I referenced in my earlier post, I found the front page.  It is entitled, "Water issues surface again."   Here's some more quotes related to the resolution that was signed by the council at the October 30, 2001, council meeting, which unfortunately are not available online.  Just to look back in time a bit:

 

"The resolution states the city's three annual water sources (a pre-1914 water right to 22,000 acre-feet of American River water, 7,000 acre-feet of American River water through a contract with the Sacramento County Water Agency, and a contractual right to 5,000 acre-feet from the Southern California Water Company) will not be used as the water source for potential developments, including Folsom's sphere of influence area south of Highway 50."

 

Here's a quote that is kind of disturbing, at least to me:

 

"One of the 'ambiguities' referenced by City Attorney Steven Rudolph is that while a city's water utility is not supposed to make a profit, certain types of city enterprises do exist, like parking garages, that can raise revenue for the general fund."  "I understand this is not the present intention of this Council," said Rudolph, "but the question exists whether or not the city's water system could, in fact, be a water enterprise if the City Council so desired it to be."

 

This is a precarious numbers game.

[Rich_T]

Here's my takeaway from all these related S50 threads:

 

1) The City Council has really, really wanted to enable development of that land, and will not be denied.  There could be any number of reasons why they want it so much, but all that matters is that they really do want it this much.  It's never been "if" for them, it's been "when" and "how".  This is their baby.  So if they have to resort to unethical tactics, doubletalk, sneakiness, illegal maneuvers, and outright deceit, they will.  This deceit has already taken many forms, and continues to take new forms.

 

2) It doesn't matter what Folsom residents ever wanted or now want; this is only about what the City Council members themselves want, and they are heavily influenced by developers. They have never been acting as our representatives, and we have not been electing representatives with the way the voting system works.

 

3) Nothing is probably going to stop them, because life is not always fair.  TV shows like "Dallas" are based on the reality that moneyed interests really do have political power, and that trickery works.  But be that as it may, I would at least like to see things get more uncomfortable for those who have run roughshod over residents all this time.  Publicity about their shenanigans is all to the good.

[nowtherestofthestory]

Our City Council and City Manager should all be thrown in Prison!

[EAH]

I am sick and therefor somewhat mentally incapacitated, and the Nyquil brain fog ain't helping matters.....so please bear with me.

 

Back in late 2006- early January of 2007 i was regularly walking my dogs around Folsom Point.

The city had recently closed down the Old Dam road crossing to all traffic.

They had also closed down a popular visiting/viewing point along the lake that i cannot remember the name of at this time (see above).

The closing of the Old Dam road forced traffic to use Natoma road to access the Rainbow Bridge, but then had closed all neighborhood cross streets in the Historic District thus causing a Clusterf*ck.

 

I stumbled upon a little blurb in the SacBee about the city closing down Folsom Point and possibly Granite Bay for a period of 7 years so the ACE could create a spillway (Great) and have another go at reinforcing the levy which apparently they screwed up several years before ( WTF?).

 

I had no problem with building a spillway, was a little pissed that the ACE didn't reinforce the levy correctly the FIRST time, and thus had to do it again, but was FURIOUS that this closure  had gotten virtually NO press and was being slipped past us residents because what we don't know means less headaches for the city council.

 

I made it my personal mission to head to Folsom Point every day that week  and accost every human being I encountered and let them know of the city's plans to close the point for (at least) 7 years to all visitors.

No one I talked to was aware of this fact. 

 

My second day "on the job" I had the great good fortune to run into a woman named Nora and her dog. I informed her she would no longer be able to visit Folsom Point for the next 7 years. Well she was just as upset as I was. We brainstormed.

We mobilized,

We made posters and placed them all around the point.

We alerted everyone we ran into.

We called the Bee, (she knew someone who worked there). 

I found this website MyFolsom.com and made my first post here in January of 2007 regarding this issue.

 We held a rally in the Church parking lot, families with kids and dogs, people of all age groups showed up with Picket signs and rallied for the cause.

Then Robert G. contacted us and jumped on board.

We had people sign petitions in front of Trader Joes, Raleys Bel Air.

News 10 did a story on us.

The Bee did a story on us.

We held meetings for concerned citizens at Bella Bru ( when it was here).

Nora along with a large group who had joined the cause orchestrated a march on the Reclamation.

Folsom came together as a city of concerned citizens and this grassroots movement went to the city council meeting AND FORCED THE CITY'S HAND.

We were able to fight for our rights and force a compromise that benefitted everyone.

 

The point of this long rambling possibly incoherent post is that 

YOU DO MAKE A DIFFERENCE!

STOP WHINING AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT

THERE IS POWER IN NUMBERS
IGNORANCE OF IT'S RESIDENTS IS WHAT THE CITY RELIES ON, IT IS THEIR ACE IN THE HOLE.

CHANGE THE GAME -EDUCATE PEOPLE - KNOWLEDGE IS POWER.

and again for emphasis.... THERE IS POWER IN NUMBERS.

 

k,

going back to bed now.

[Phoenix2014]

Thanks EAH - your summary is right on target. Hope you recover quickly, this Forum needs a little more anger and conviction over this - and action.

 

Great discussions all, but we are still beating around the bush. There is only one way to save our water –

Sue the City on grounds they are violating their own Environmental impact report (EIR).

As you read the case below regarding the Sunrise Douglas project, keep in mind:

• The developers for that project actually had some potentially viable water sources identified IN their EIR, yet still was found to be inadequate.

• Our City does not have the currently proposed water source (stealing our water from North of 50) even listed as a possible source in the EIR. They only list the proposed $750 million project to transfer water from the Sacramento River, which they have abandoned.

• Their current “water supply” strategy is to use the water we are conserving. Once again, we have to conserve because in this drought that portion of our water does not exist. So they plan on using water that does not exist.

All we need is a little legal guidance and an attorney to step up to the plate and help out, at least to get this rolling.
 

Spread the word, someone reading this must at least know someone who knows such an attorney.

 

 

 

 

************************************************************************************************

From attorney newsletter at:
http://www.paulhasti...cations/804.pdf

“California environmental groups have successfully delayed numerous development and water projects over the last two decades by arguing either that uncertainties associated with water supplies, especially those from the State Water Project (SWP, commonly known as the California Aqueduct), have not been sufficiently disclosed in EIRs, or that those water supplies are so uncertain that they cannot be relied upon for planning purposes. No major development project has survived such a legal challenge. Among the EIRs that have been adjudged to have an insufficient analysis of Water Resources are those for the Sunrise Douglas project, the 22,000‐unit master planned development in Rancho Cordova that was the subject of the Vineyard decision; .....”

See the following link for an extensive review of this case
http://statecasefile...f?ts=1392776644

The introduction includes the following very applicable passage:

“We conclude that while the EIR adequately informed decision makers and the public of the County’s plan for near-term provision of water to the development, it failed to do so as to the long-term provision and hence failed to disclose the impacts of providing the necessary supplies in the long term. While the EIR identifies the intended water sources in general terms, it does not clearly and coherently explain, using material properly stated or incorporated in the EIR, how the long-term demand is likely to be met with those sources,……”


 

[ducky]

Even though I'm not sure about the "city" closing down Folsom Point for seven years during the spillway construction, and I think that was actually the USBR and the Army Corps of Engineers that came up with that plan, I applaud EAH's efforts to bring attention to it.  I believe Robert Holderness was actually on the city's side on behalf of the Folsom Tourism Bureau so I don't think the city ever actually wanted Folsom Point to be closed for seven years www.usbr.gov/mp/nepa/documentShow.cfm?Doc_ID=2661. 

 

I actually thought the point EAH was making is that instead of posting complaints here we should take action.  I don't disagree with her except that we've tried it before and are tired.  Like EDF said, we've walked door to door and stood in front of supermarkets with petitions only to have the rules changed.  We have a lot of new residents.  It's time for them to get involved if they care.  Chad Vander Veen is a good example.  His view of the water supply alone has got my vote.  

 

So, Phoenix2014, why don't you find a lawyer and do everything you are saying can be done?   You don't have to "know" a lawyer. You obviously have some good back ground info.

[Phoenix2014]

ducky,

 

I am in the same boat as you and EDF. Been at this for many years, walked door to door, etc. Now dealing with a two edged sword, more of a three or four edged sword. I have information that most others would not. The other two or three edges to the sword are those who would harm me (politically) in any way they could for sharing this information and trying to do the right thing. I have seen it happen way to many times to others in this City and cannot take the chance.

 

I will give of my time, information, ability to find and understand important public documents and even money. But cannot be the point person on this. With 70,000 residents, assuming at least half are voting adults and assuming only 10% of those are informed and care, that still leaves a pool of 3,500 Folsom residents who should be pounding on City Halls doors every day over the theft of their water.

 

I started this topic to provide information, draw discussion, bring together the experienced and those just becoming aware of the problem, but mostly to spawn action. Without action soon, City Hall and the developers will be laughing all the way to our faucets to siphon off water for south of 50.

 

Again, of the 3,500 of you I note above, the 10% who know and care, which among you will step forward to help do the right thing for your families and city?

[Rich_T]

I will be honest.  There is no way I am ever going to instigate a lawsuit against the city.  Just writing that sentence feels absurd, because that world is completely alien to my life, and it's not worth the tradeoff for me to try to do it.  I probably speak for 99.9% of residents.  But maybe there is that one career activist out there who will do what you are suggesting.

[Tyto Alba]

I will be honest.  There is no way I am ever going to instigate a lawsuit against the city.  Just writing that sentence feels absurd, because that world is completely alien to my life, and it's not worth the tradeoff for me to try to do it.  I probably speak for 99.9% of residents.  But maybe there is that one career activist out there who will do what you are suggesting.

 What is the trade off?    They cannot take your soul.     Sometimes people have to step up and speak to the elected people in their community to tell them they are wrong.    I don't think a lawsuit is needed at this time.  Did anyone in the community speak in front of the City Counsel addressing this issue? 

[Phoenix2014]

Tylo,

 

I will assume you are very new to this City. This issue has been going on for over 15 years. Many residents have been extremely vocal regarding the lies and deceit that City Hall has used to push their agenda for uncontrolled growth at the expense of current residents. 

 

At what point would you consider that "a lawsuit is needed at this time"? The window of opportunity for a lawsuit has been open for years and is now rapidly closing. Once they start cutting down trees and building roads, trying to save our water will be that much more difficult. The time to act should have been day one upon their announcement (strike that, they never announced it, just another back room deal in the dark), they day when we found out they were stealing our water in violation of the MOU with the County, Measure W and the EIR.

 

As for my soul, I trust God to take care of it. It is my finances to take care of my family that I am protecting.

[maestro]

I will be honest.  There is no way I am ever going to instigate a lawsuit against the city.  Just writing that sentence feels absurd, because that world is completely alien to my life, and it's not worth the tradeoff for me to try to do it.  I probably speak for 99.9% of residents.  But maybe there is that one career activist out there who will do what you are suggesting.

 

Civil lawsuits have been filed.     As a result of one such "career activist's" work the water board took the evidence and referred  the city actions for criminal prosecution. 

 

As a prosecutor said to me:   if what you're all saying is true, you need a prosecutor, not a civil lawyer.

[Tyto Alba]

Tylo,
 
I will assume you are very new to this City. This issue has been going on for over 15 years. Many residents have been extremely vocal regarding the lies and deceit that City Hall has used to push their agenda for uncontrolled growth at the expense of current residents. 
 
At what point would you consider that "a lawsuit is needed at this time"? The window of opportunity for a lawsuit has been open for years and is now rapidly closing. Once they start cutting down trees and building roads, trying to save our water will be that much more difficult. The time to act should have been day one upon their announcement (strike that, they never announced it, just another back room deal in the dark), they day when we found out they were stealing our water in violation of the MOU with the County, Measure W and the EIR.
 
As for my soul, I trust God to take care of it. It is my finances to take care of my family that I am protecting.

.Thank you for your community activism and effort in improving the community.    I will support measures and actions that will enforce measure W.
 
 I have been in Folsom for almost 11 years now and have had grass roots success working with the city making the community better for everyone.     When in Sacramento before I used to attend neighborhood meetings with elected Sacramento City Officials and go the the Counsel meetings downtown.   Witnessing and experiencing both,  making things happen in Folsom can be done.   Do think it is important to inform the citizens and get the support.   
 

[mac_convert]

.Thank you for your community activism and effort in improving the community.    I will support measures and actions that will enforce measure W.
 
 I have been in Folsom for almost 11 years now and have had grass roots success working with the city making the community better for everyone.     When in Sacramento before I used to attend neighborhood meetings with elected Sacramento City Officials and go the the Counsel meetings downtown.   Witnessing and experiencing both,  making things happen in Folsom can be done.   Do think it is important to inform the citizens and get the support.   
 

I think it is crucial to get this information out to the citizens of Folsom! What is the best avenue to do this? I don't know how many read the telegraph. I know I don't.

[caligirlz]

I think only a small percentage of Folsomites read this forum as well. maybe Steve can pull the stats.
So the activists need to find a more effective way to get the message out.

[Steve Heard]

I think only a small percentage of Folsomites read this forum as well. maybe Steve can pull the stats.
So the activists need to find a more effective way to get the message out.

I'm just learning about the stats, but according to google analytics, in the past 30 days, we've had  8,152 visits, and 49% were first-timers.

 

If activists and interested parties want to use this forum to discuss the issue(s), they just need to tell others about it, send them links, and participate.