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Ebola Brought Into The Us With Open Arms


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#1 nomad

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 02:10 PM

Idiots. Why not fly the stuff there to treat these people? Pretty sure this is how "The Walking Dead" began.

 

American elites have decided that Americans are not sufficiently threatened by war and economic chaos, so they are bringing the ebola virus to America. National Public Radio reported that two people infected with the ebola virus, which cannot be cured and is usually deadly, are being brought to Emory University Hospital in Atlanta, Georgia.
All it takes is one cough, one sneeze, one drop of saliva, and the virus is loose in one of the main transportation centers of the US.
Pandemic anyone? Little doubt but that most of the world would emit a great sigh of relief to be rid of Washington.
Allegedly the ebola carriers will be quarantined in special rooms. But we already know that American hospitals cannot even contain staph infections. http://rt.com/usa/17...otic-southeast/What happens to the utensils, plates, cups, and glasses with which the ebola infected persons eat and drink? And who gets to clean the bed pans? One slip-up by one person, one tear in a rubber glove, and the virus is loose.

 



#2 bordercolliefan

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 03:14 PM

I've been very perplexed by this decision, too. First of all, I'm a little surprised these patients can tolerate a trip halfway around the world when they are suffering from ebola. And this was announced several days ago. I thought ebola killed fairly quickly--so again, how are they going to survive long enough to make this journey and receive treatment here?

Also, since when are we in the business of satisfying people's preferences to be treated in the U.S.? I'm fairly sure that if I have a heart attack in India, the U.S. government is not going to move heaven and earth so I can be treated here.

Since the whole thing makes absolutely no sense, I think something more is going on. I think the CDC wants some ebola viruses convenient to their labs so they can get samples for vaccine testing, maybe try out some medicines, etc.

They say there is "zero" chance this virus gets out. I hope they are right.

#3 Chris

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 03:54 PM

Actually SARS is worse and an airborne virus.....   They brought the SARS victims to the same lab hospital several years ago.   Ebola is passed on by touching fluids, blood, vomit, sweat, not an airborne/aerosolizing virus like SARS.  Easily taken care of in a lab hospital.   Don't worry.  It's a BL-4 facility.   I work in a BL-1 facility and have worked in BL-2 and I think a BL-3 a long time ago....?    And "The Walking Dead" is a fantasy TV show last time I looked.....(although I do practice my Zombie head shots at the range just in case...!).   Kinda like Global Warming, the press and the politicians will stir up a frenzy because they know only a little bit about the subject.   And I am all for bringing these people back and helping them.  They are Americans who went into harms way to help others and deserve to come back and be helped by us.   I'd rather do this than bring in 50,000 Guatemalans who were not born here and are not our citizens and will only cost our society in the end.   Help Americans first, then the rest of the world if we can.   Chris  


1A - 2A = -1A


#4 EAH

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 04:57 PM

Absolutely agree with Chris on bringing these people back home, and all necessary precautions being in place.

( not so much on global warming which IS a documented and serious issue and the Guatamalan children who are REFUGEES fleeing an almost certain death-weve always allowed people in for this issue before).

But again DEFINITELY agree on bringing these kind hearted people home.

 

This reaction reminds me so much of the fear, ignorance, and downright cruelty towards people who developed AIDS in the mid 80's. 



#5 nomad

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 06:24 PM

LOL, Yeah fear mongering at it's best. Don't worry, the Guvment will take care of you!

 

I don't care if it's a Level BL-99 facility when you have these clowns at the CDC carrying live viruses around in zip lock bags.

 

Sorry, don't feel that these guys are as solid as you make them out to be.

 

And sorry these guys chose to work in a place where they knew the risk of exposure but that's the risk right? I say help them but help them there and not here were if things go wrong it could get bad.



#6 bordercolliefan

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:03 PM

Absolutely agree with Chris on bringing these people back home, and all necessary precautions being in place.


But don't you wonder WHY the government is going to so much trouble to bring them back home? Believe me, if you have a heart attack or are in a car accident in some 3rd world country, the U. S. government is not going to send a special medical jet to bring you home--no matter how terrible that country's health care system is.

These were not government workers; they worked for a private religious organization.

#7 supermom

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 07:37 PM

Ebola can take up to 2 weeks to run its course in a human being. Not all humans die from it. In fact, there have been studies that link the high morbidity rates to being a poor mans disease. The better the health of the patient prior to contracting the disease the better their survival rates- and permanent conditions from it. Some people have survived the disease with very, very few complications. Others have permanent breathing, cardiac or even fertility  problems. In some cases, there is damage to internal organs and a suppressed immune system. It is rather hard to say who will have a better outcome. 

 

As for death- there are quite a few strains of Ebola. Dr.s suggest that Ebola is one of the fast changing viruses a human can come into contact with-so far. Some of the strains in Africa have only infected very small areas and of the people infected it is believed only 20% died from the disease or complications during recovery. As far as literature has on the disease ( really not very much ) incidents of 100% death rates are exceptionally rare. 

 

However, one thing is fairly certain. The disease can be contained in individuals by putting them in a clean room and maintaining vigilance in proper handling of patients- much like tuberculosis patients. 

 

Furthermore, several years ago, an American scientist discovered a possible injection to halt the mutation of the disease which would render it neutral. Unfortunately, the disease died out in the patients (monkeys belonging to American Navy bought and transferred to Philippine soil under American containment) that were being treated and the researched was halted (of the three monkeys- 2 died and one survived). Further in-depth studies would be needed to continue the possible vaccination research. 

 

So in short, bringing these patients back to America, could possible save hundreds of thousands of future lives. 

yes, I know this because I read lots and lots of material on the subject while helping one of my children with a research project for a biology class. For more information I suggest reading more on the subject on the WHO, CDC, and American FDA websites. 



#8 nomad

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 09:18 PM

Nothing more powerful than a Wikipedia fueled high school research paper.

 

Bottom line is the big Pharms aren't going to touch this as there is no $$$$ to be made yet so for now it's just something to toy with and the likely hood of saving thousands of lives with a magical cure is a pipe dream.



#9 supermom

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 10:34 PM

No darling, - no schools in Folsom are allowed to cite Wikipedia. And the papers my kid did cite, came from verified sources. But nice of you to yet again belittle someone on this site. 

 

As for the money pharma companies would make on this project? So not true. The only way to counter a virus that could be used as a weapon of mass production is to pump money into the research and development of a vaccination and develop a plan for fast inoculation of population. Negativity and fear mongering, along with snide comments do not justify the breach of confidence and incredible sacrifices of the people who jump into the infectious populations to humanely treat and add relief to the suffering of complete strangers. So lets try to keep this thread respectful- and I will go back to ignoring you and your blatant disrespect for humans and humanity.



#10 Rich_T

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 05:47 AM

<< This reaction reminds me so much of the fear, ignorance, and downright cruelty towards people who developed AIDS in the mid 80's. >>

 

I don't share your opinion.  For starters, fear can be rational precisely because of uncertainty ("ignorance").  Do you have special knowledge that assures our nation that there is "zero risk" of the virus being spread here, once it's on American soil?  I'm sure you acknowledge that caution is warranted.  Caution is a manifestation of an underlying fear.

 

Also, I wouldn't call it "cruelty" if the two people who contracted the virus, in an area where contracting the virus is a known risk, are treated there rather than here.  It would be a prudent measure on behalf of the nation.  I would call it something worse than cruelty and something worse than ignorance if even a single other person contracts the virus in the US because of this decision, let alone if it ends up being the pandemic of the century (I fully expect one to eventually hit our nation, but let's not make things easier, shall we?).

 

We should give kudos to the two people for trying to help fellow human beings.  But a health risk is called a health risk for a reason.  The ethical question involved here is interesting ("game theory"):  Does one try to save these two people, despite having no known method of doing so, when the risk is that millions more could share their fate, if a mistake is made or if the "zero percent risk" is actually non-zero, and the unthinkable happens?  What is the trade-off here?  Perhaps it really is as bordercolliefan suggests, that the trade-off is gaining more knowledge about the virus, as experiments are performed on these two unfortunate individuals, who are then being used as guinea pigs.

 

As for your AIDS reference...  My assessment is that a politically correct Surgeon General flat-out lied to everyone about AIDS in the 1980s and beyond, in an attempt to shield gay people from being treated like plague-carriers.  Thirty years later, and it's pretty apparent that the heterosexual population was never really at risk (unless through sharing needles or, rarely, through blood transfusions, or from having sex with a prostitute who might have contracted AIDS).  Millions of people did not suddenly stop having sex, unprotected sex, or sex with multiple partners - and yet AIDS never did catch on (thankfully) in the general population.  It's still essentially a "gay" disease", despite all the propaganda to the contrary.  This is not a commentary on the worth of any person.  It is a commentary on the truth that was never told out loud by health authorities.  I cannot automatically trust what government health officials say.  There may be an agenda sometimes.



#11 Rich_T

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 05:51 AM

<< However, one thing is fairly certain. The disease can be contained in individuals by putting them in a clean room and maintaining vigilance in proper handling of patients- much like tuberculosis patients. >>

 

The part that worries everyone are the words "fairly certain".

 

As for tuberculosis in the US - that is yet another negative outcome of permitting mass uncontrolled border crossings by people from less-developed countries.

 

It will be interesting to see if the US literally commits suicide one day, by bringing in a pandemic that cannot be treated.  I wouldn't expect such a drastic outcome, but government decisions are increasing the risk.



#12 supermom

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 08:41 AM

Rich- in the last 20 years, all the American Dr.s that have gone over to Africa and the pacific Islands to aid during Ebola Virus breakouts - only 2 have been infected since since infectious disease controls and protocols were put into place. The suits they they wear with double or triple gloving up have done well in protecting them. The only time there has been contamination of an aid worker that was with a person that was outside the infected boundary area. I don't know the reason why these two workers were infected. 

 

I agree that the lack of security on the southern border does pose a serious health risk. However- Ebola is not indigenous to any of the countries in South America at this time. 

I would like to also add- that historically- so far- all disease of major consequence to mass populations that were introduced to the American populations came from European countries so far. Sure you can claim AIDS originally came from Africa, but it is doubtful that it came from someone in a third world country when it arrived here in the US. More than likely it arrived on a plane from someone who traveled a lot and participated in behavior that is considered risky. Frankly, the Ebola virus could arrive here in the same manner.

 

Ebola is a very scary disease. It is amazing how it makes contact with some people and they are completely unaffected by it- and with some people it can have such dramatic effect. 

 

The decision of the American Dr.s and government to bring an infected person back home may have serious political repercussions on domestic and international influences. To be honest, I'm not sure the right call was made. But I certainly think it was right to help. I also think it is very important to get a vaccination discovered as soon as possible. Not just for the people for accidental out breaks while traveling, or accidental infection possibilities in the US from someone who recently traveled- but also so that people from nations like Somalia do not try to use a weapon of mass destruction against us. I think the most obvious reason to find a vaccination is the suffering of the people in African countries during outbreaks. 



#13 Rich_T

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 08:56 AM

I agree with all those points, supermom, and I commend you for a well-reasoned post.  But I'm not sure why it was necessary to bring the two individuals to the US, as opposed to trying to treat them in Africa, by flying in materials and doctors from the US.  Americans have the right to expect the same kind of "first, do no harm" approach to our public health that is taken by doctors when they help individual patients.



#14 supermom

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 09:08 AM

Yeah, I don't know. like i said, they may be shooting for political reasons in bringing the people home. possible laws sanctioning patients as research vessels. Possibly laws pushing out foreign ill workers?  But at least their families will get an opportunity to arrive and be with them during their course of treatments and (hopefully) their recovery. Even if it is through a glass wall. The important part to remember is that the disease only lives in a human body for two weeks. If they can survive the virus for two weeks, or if their immune system can best it- then they have a chance to thrive. During that time, I am sure all Dr.s working with these patients wil be required to use heightened security, non disclosure, and more than likely- they wont be allowed to go home. I think it is important to remember that the Dr.s know the implications of their actions. And their families live a lot closer to the new ground zero than ours do.



#15 nomad

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Posted 03 August 2014 - 09:23 AM

Gupta says it will spread.

 

http://globalpublics...ound-the-world/






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