60 replies to this topic

[zach5]

So you're saying that the Folsom store served tobacco to minors without checking ID? Sounds like they're going to get fined/license revoked pretty soon if they keep that up.

Yes exactly, I have seen it first hand, however this isnt abnormal for any of these places. But do you even need a license to sell hookah?

[mylo]

Yes exactly, I have seen it first hand, however this isnt abnormal for any of these places. But do you even need a license to sell hookah?

I understand it's still a tobacco product and would assumably need the same license as selling cigarettes.

From: http://ccap.etr.org/...ahFactSheet.doc

 Under California state law, smoking tobacco -- in any form, flavored or unflavored, in a water pipe or in a cigarette or cigar – is prohibited in indoor workplaces. Therefore, hookah pipes must be smoked outside – unless the venue is proven to be owner-operated or is a bona fide “retail or wholesale tobacco shop”. California Labor Code 6404.5
 Obtaining a tobacco retailer’s license does not - by itself - mean that a hookah business is a bona fide retail or wholesale tobacco shop under California law. Businesses may be required to obtain such licenses even though the sale of tobacco is not their main purpose. For instance, a foodservice workplace -- one that serves food or beverage for consumption on the premises -- is not exempt from the CA Smoke-free Workplace act, even when the establishment also sells cigarettes or hookah tobacco.
 “A ‘tobacco store’ means a retail business that meets all of the following requirements: (A) Primarily sells tobacco products. (B) Generates more than 60 percent of its gross revenues annually from the sale of tobacco products and tobacco paraphernalia. © Does not permit any person under 18 years of age to be present or enter the premises at any time, unless accompanied by the person’s parent or legal guardian, as defined in Section 6903 of the Family Code. (D) Does not sell alcoholic beverages or food for consumption on the premises.” CA Business & Professions Code Section 22962 (a) (4).
 The sale of tobacco -- in any form: blocks, squares, cigarettes or cigars, flavored or unflavored -- to minors under the age of 18 is illegal. California Penal Code 308 (a).

California Penal Code 308(a)

308. (a) Every person, firm, or corporation that knowingly or under
circumstances in which it has knowledge, or should otherwise have
grounds for knowledge, sells, gives, or in any way furnishes to
another person who is under the age of 18 years any tobacco,
cigarette, or cigarette papers, or any other preparation of tobacco,
or any other instrument or paraphernalia that is designed for the
smoking or ingestion of tobacco, products prepared from tobacco, or
any controlled substance, is subject to either a criminal action for
a misdemeanor or to a civil action brought by a city attorney, a
county counsel, or a district attorney, punishable by a fine of two
hundred dollars ($200) for the first offense, five hundred dollars
($500) for the second offense, and one thousand dollars ($1,000) for
the third offense.
...

[bordercolliefan]

As did this one last night, which is what frightens me.

Zach, if you are saying that you witnessed this restaurant provide hookah to underage minors last night, then I hope you will report it to the police. That is outrageous.

Are you saying people sit at the outdoor tables for the hookah? Doesn't Folsom have an ordinance supporting clean air in sidewalk cafes? There are a lot of other stores and restaurants there that people might be walking to... I can't imagine the adjacent business owners are thrilled by this development.

By the way, what does hookah (or being Muslim, as someone stated above) have to do with Greece? I thought this was supposed to be a Greek restaurant.

[mylo]

A Hookah is a water pipe that originated in sixteenth century India and is also referred to as Shisha, Nargile (Narguileh), “Hubble Bubble”, Nag, or Turkish water pipe. The hookah is a glass or metal water-pipe usually highly decorated and shaped somewhat like a bottle or small tank with a long, flexible cord pipe. In most hookahs, hot charcoal is placed on top of the tobacco to heat it.

They are used extensively in the middle east, even as far west as greece The owners of the greek restaurant in question happen to be Muslim (their store is listed in a Halal dining list I found somewhere online)

Here's the list: http://www.zabihah.c...hp?rest_id=5782

If Zach really did witness the establishment selling to minors, I would hope he would report it to the appropriate authorities. I'm glad to see a hookah bar in Folsom, but obviously I want them to abide by the law. If they don't, they'll get shut down, and the responsible adults will be left without

[ngilbert]

Actually, the place sounds kinda cool. Maybe I'll stop by.


Thanks for letting me know about it!

[palango]

Did anyone bother to think this might be for the middle-eastern folks at Intel and NOT in fact an attempt to get our poor children hooked on the devil weed?

Now out of all the point of views I have read arguments I have heard, this one has to be the most idiotic.

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If the City of Folsom ALLOWS a Hookah bar within walking distance from a school, then the next natural progression would be to let sexual abusers and pedifiles roam free across the schools and parks. What the hell is wrong with City of Folsom.

[Steve Heard]

Now out of all the point of views I have read arguments I have heard, this one has to be the most idiotic.

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If the City of Folsom ALLOWS a Hookah bar within walking distance from a school, then the next natural progression would be to let sexual abusers and pedifiles roam free across the schools and parks. What the hell is wrong with City of Folsom.

Yes, people can get carried away. Many opposed light rail, fearing that homeless folks, burglers, robbers and gangs were saving up their pennies so they could finally get out here to wreak havoc on our town. Didn't happen.

Then there was controversy over the lingerie shop on Sutter. Folks were claiming there'd be pedophiles and other assorted perverts, attracted by the underwear in the windows, and in turn, they'd stalk our kids.

This hookah bar thing is a fad. It will be done soon enough. I am for enforcing age rules, but other than that, not much we could or should do.

[ngilbert]

This hookah bar thing is a fad. It will be done soon enough. I am for enforcing age rules, but other than that, not much we could or should do.

*sigh*

Steve - why did you have to go an introduce reason into this?

[palango]

Stevethedad would make an excellent historian with his memory. You do make sense about the Fads. Now lets take bets about the next fad in Folsom that will create an uproar.

Whatever happened to the low income/Mercy housing fad? what is the latest on that?

[mylo]

Since when is a 500 year old tradition a fad?

[Solartide]

I come up with this because I go to hookah bars, and so do my friends, and I know plenty of underage people

You go to hookah bars? Wow.. I don't think I wanna be your friend anymore... What a turn of events...

[watstein]

First to liquor stores near schools. Look at the Liquor store across from San Juan High. Most kids do buy there booze and cigarettes from that store but hasn't ever closed. Also Hookah Bars are everywhere. There have been some articles in the Sac State Hornet about them and there is one right past the Guy West Bridge in Campus Commons. I haven't gone but it is suppose to be a great way to have a meet up with a group of friends.

[Deb aka Resume Lady]

My concern is that many of the young people who use hookah think it's safe. Cigarettes come with warning labels; from what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) there are no warning signs at the hookahs informing users about the dangers of the tobacco they are smoking. There is a misconception among a lot of people who use them that somehow the nicotine, arsenic and other harmful chemicals are "taken out in the water" of the pipe. Does a hookah bar have a right to exist? Sure. Should they be allowing minors to use them? No. Should they provide information that warns users about the dangers of the tobocco? I think so, but I'm not sure the laws say so... not sure why.

[zach5]

First to liquor stores near schools. Look at the Liquor store across from San Juan High. Most kids do buy there booze and cigarettes from that store but hasn't ever closed. Also Hookah Bars are everywhere. There have been some articles in the Sac State Hornet about them and there is one right past the Guy West Bridge in Campus Commons. I haven't gone but it is suppose to be a great way to have a meet up with a group of friends.

Coblestone

[mylo]

My concern is that many of the young people who use hookah think it's safe. Cigarettes come with warning labels; from what I understand (correct me if I'm wrong) there are no warning signs at the hookahs informing users about the dangers of the tobacco they are smoking. There is a misconception among a lot of people who use them that somehow the nicotine, arsenic and other harmful chemicals are "taken out in the water" of the pipe. Does a hookah bar have a right to exist? Sure. Should they be allowing minors to use them? No. Should they provide information that warns users about the dangers of the tobocco? I think so, but I'm not sure the laws say so... not sure why.

I don't know the exact laws about packaging of tobacco products, but I would assume that the "block" of tobacco sold for consumption in a hookah would also be labelled by the same standards that a pack of cigarettes is.