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Sibley St Closed!


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#16 Orangetj

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Posted 29 March 2004 - 02:01 PM

QUOTE (bordercolliefan @ Mar 29 2004, 01:40 PM)
Where exactly will the barricade be? Will it block both directions at Lembi -- thereby forcing all traffic to turn onto Lembi?

My understanding is the the blockade will be at the northern side of the intersection of Lembi and Sibley. This being the case, it would seem that it would only potentially divert northbound drivers up Lembi. The reason I don't think that problem would last long is that cutting up Lembi doesn't really get these people where they're trying to go. Making a left from Lembi onto Riley is prohibitive and once you're on Riley you're basically headed for the Rainbow Bridge. My guess is that people will figure out that they're better off turning down Glenn and just taking Folsom Blvd. across the river. We shall see.

#17 Lembi Resident

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Posted 29 March 2004 - 02:05 PM

The barricade will be on Sibley, north of Lembi, blocking traffic in both directions. (This was decided upon so that unsafe and lawless drivers would not attempt to drive on the wrong side of the street around the blockade.)

Yes, there is a real chance that Lembi may see a temporary increase in diverted traffic during the first week or so, as drivers learn to modify their routes. However, the city has planned to use appropriately placed electronic messages boards to alert drivers of the closure, and give them an opportunity to use a different route (Glenn, for example.)

As a resident of Lembi, I am willing to live with a temporary inconvenience of diverted, forgetful or "lost" drivers. I optimistically believe the benefits outweigh any temporary inconveniences.

#18 Orangetj

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Posted 29 March 2004 - 02:08 PM

QUOTE (Lembi Resident @ Mar 29 2004, 02:05 PM)

As a resident of Lembi, I am willing to live with a temporary inconvenience of diverted, forgetful or "lost" drivers. I optimistically believe the benefits outweigh any temporary inconveniences.

Thanks for the clarification, Lembi. I absolutely agree with you about being willing to put up with a temporary increase in traffic while people get new routes figured out.

#19 tessieca

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Posted 29 March 2004 - 02:54 PM

For those of us who travel from near Hwy 50 to downtown, this plan will suck. It will force us to try to get on Riley, from which we are prohibited from turning left onto Bidwell and Sutter. Or, we can get into the mess and snarl of Folsom Blvd., with the inconsiderate SOBs who are just passing through.

How, besides Folsom Blvd., will residents get to Sutter and Liedesdorff, in the evening time?? Take Natoma Street and cut through some neighborhoods there? I'm not even sure if they're allowing turns onto Natoma Street anymore. I used to use Riley, then got stuck with the No Turn signs (after getting stuck in the maze near Coloma). Then, I started turning onto Bidwell, but I guess that's a no-no now too.

Are they trying to keep people out of downtown!!?? Because that's the result I see. Yagers and Hacienda might as well close their doors now.
"Sometimes on purpose and sometimes by accident, teachers' unions have a long history of working against the interests of children in the name of job security for adults. And Democrats in particular have a history of facilitating this obstructionism in exchange for campaign donations and votes." . . .Amanda Ripley re "Waiting for Superman" movie.

#20 Orangetj

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Posted 29 March 2004 - 03:17 PM

QUOTE (tessieca @ Mar 29 2004, 02:54 PM)
"Or, we can get into the mess and snarl of Folsom Blvd., with the inconsiderate SOBs who are just passing through. "



I suppose it's much better to have many of those same inconsiderate SOB's who are passing through just use Sibley instead????

It's funny, I've gone to both Hacienda and Yagers in the evening on weekdays and have somehow managed to do it without traveling through the neighborhood. Glenn to Folsom to the Sutter street exit is just not that bad. Sure, it takes a couple more minutes, but jeez people, have some consideration for your fellow residents. Folsom Blvd traffic really calms down after about 6:00, which is pretty much when people go out to dinner or to bars anyways.

#21 Sibley Resident

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Posted 29 March 2004 - 03:20 PM

QUOTE
we can get into the mess and snarl of Folsom Blvd., with the inconsiderate SOBs who are just passing through


Another point made for us, try having those same SOBs in your neighborhood or on your front door step, like we do. Try having to deal with them screeching to a break or pealing off around the corners, driving through yards and alley ways, the horn honking and the yelling, the road rage and much more as they are right outside the front door of your home. We do not have to get onto Folsom to deal with them. We get to deal with them in our neighborhood, our yards and our own homes. There seems to be a complete misunderstanding as if we will have our own access point into the neighborhood. Well, we don't. We have to get into the same mess, we don't have to get into just when we want to go to dinner or when we want to go shopping, we deal with it every day. The only way we have to get home is to get onto Folsom Blvd or Riley, every day. We have to do the same thing that everyone else does. As far as Sutter Street there is at least 10 different ways of getting their one which is their own exit off of Folsom Blvd.

Instead of getting angry at us and trying to punish us, why doesn't anyone consider, Wow, things must be pretty horrible if these people are willing to close one of their own access points and to deal with Folsom Blvd and Riley every time they leave their home and try to get home just to get some relief while they are home.


Margaret Mead wrote, "Never doubt that a few thoughtful people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

#22 Orangetj

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Posted 29 March 2004 - 03:23 PM

C'mon now Sibley Resident...your daily quality of life isn't nearly as important as somebody having to spend 5 extra minutes on the road to get to their restaurant of choice for dinner. What are you thinking? Quit being so selfish. wacko.gif

#23 secondwind

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Posted 29 March 2004 - 03:29 PM

QUOTE (Sibley Resident @ Mar 29 2004, 03:20 PM)

Another point made for us, try having those same SOBs in your neighborhood or on your front door step, like we do. Try having to deal with them screeching to a break or pealing off around the corners, driving through yards and alley ways, the horn honking and the yelling, the road rage and much more as they are right outside the front door of your home.

If all that is going on- it would make an outrageous video -- Cool- the life on Sibley by Sibley resident--- I would buy a copy.... specool.gif

Cheers cool.gif
Secondwind

#24 Orangetj

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Posted 29 March 2004 - 03:33 PM

If we videotaped it, we'd have to come up with a title. You could probably do three separate videos, titled "Car stereo sound off - who's got the most bass", "The Folsom drag races - or how to burn rubber across an intersection without getting a ticket", and "Honey...when did they install a freeway in our front yard?".

#25 Sibley Resident

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Posted 29 March 2004 - 03:34 PM

Orangetj, Thanks you made me laugh.
Margaret Mead wrote, "Never doubt that a few thoughtful people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

#26 bordercolliefan

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Posted 29 March 2004 - 07:09 PM

Check out the discussion between Dave and Parklady under the Livermore Park thread. See, now we've already got other neighborhoods planning their own demands for road closures, traffic diverters, etc.! smile.gif

Lembi Resident, I am hardly "consumed" by this issue. I am, however, interested in it from a personal point of view and a civic point of view. On a personal level, I have made clear that I use Sibley a couple times a day to take my children to school and to go to church. I am not the dreaded "cut-through" traffic: I am a Folsom resident just like you. I just don't understand how it is appropriate for a neighborhood to decide to exclude other residents from driving through their neighborhood. My childish immediate reaction is, "Fine, then you can't drive on Turnpike [in our neighborhood -- also a residential street used for certain cut-throughs] either!!!" On a civic level, it just seems wrong to me to get into a mode of different groups of residents seeking to gain special treatment for their road at the expense of other residents. It promotes divisiveness and resentful feelings among people who can't get where they are going efficiently or who can't get the same special treatment for their neighborhood.

#27 Lembi Resident

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Posted 30 March 2004 - 12:10 AM

You are correct that I should not be using Turnpike to cut through your neighborhood. I should use either Natoma Station Dr., or if going to the outlets for example, Folsom Blvd.

Likewise, there are options to using Sibley.

(By the way, I make a very concerted effort to stay off of Turnpike. You're welcome.)



#28 Orangetj

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Posted 30 March 2004 - 08:29 AM

QUOTE (bordercolliefan @ Mar 29 2004, 07:09 PM)
Check out the discussion between Dave and Parklady under the Livermore Park thread. See, now we've already got other neighborhoods planning their own demands for road closures, traffic diverters, etc.! smile.gif


Nice try, Bordercolliefan, but it appears that YOU are the one who went intot hat thread and suggested that since Sibley residents had been successful in securing a road closure (again, let's not lose sight of the fact that we're talking about 3 hours a day) perhaps they should try for it as well. Give me a break.

By the way, it is not acceptable for people to shortcut down Turnpike and I wouldn't do it anyway. Apparently you don't feel the need to extend that same courtesy to those of us along Sibley, though.

To say that we're looking for "special treatment" is just ridiculous. The worsening traffic conditions in this area are a serious threat to the well being of the neighborhood and to the safety of those who live in it. I would say that the city has some responsibility to the residents of the area. Do you not agree? If some condition in your neighborhood got really bad - say, the stormwater drainage system got overburdened and caused street flooding every year - wouldn't you demand that the city do something about it? If Turnpike became an extremely popular shortcut for people and your street started carrying 4,000 to 6,000 cars a day (that's several every minute when you consider that most people don't drive late at night), would you just sit back and say "oh well...there's nothing we can do about it...and, gee...I'd sure hate to inconvenience all of those folks by forcing them to use the main roads"? Somehow I doubt it.



#29 Sibley Resident

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Posted 30 March 2004 - 08:31 AM

Border Collie, I have to believe that this is a concern you truly have and not, well I wont go there. As far as a concern that every neighborhood will want this is valid. I’m sure every neighborhood would want this, but I have to wonder where you have been the last few months on this forum and whom it is you have been responding to, I thought you were reading the other thread regarding this including several things I had wrote, even though you disagreed with us you seemed to understand the difficulties we have gone through. The idea that anyone can go in and demand the city do anything and they bow down and do it, is insane. There have been people ask for and demand many things, including 4 way stops at every corner, speed humps, no left hand turns at Bidwell and Natoma, Bidwell to be closed, one way streets etc… etc… . Do you see any of that happening, No. Is going to happen? More than likely not. Every neighborhood is unique, and their problems are unique and will have to be addressed independent of one another. Please give me an example of another neighborhood that is bordered by 4 main arterials, where the traffic could be and should be using the arterials but because of the way the neighborhood is designed that they choose to use every street in the neighborhood creating hours of bumper to bumper traffic in the neighborhood on a regular basis. I think you will have a hard time finding one.

The city has proposed a 4 hour closure because this is what has been determined would be necessary for this particular neighborhood to remove bumper to bumper traffic for those hours, again after looking at every other possibility first. These are the hours they see as a problem, not the only hours we see as a problem. For some not all in the city they consider bumper to bumper traffic in a neighborhood for hours at a time unacceptable. However our neighborhood could have the same amount of vehicles a day and thousands more and as long as they do not create gridlock in a neighborhood, would be acceptable to most of the city. Again, after everything we have been through and all of the demands we have made, I have to laugh at the idea of mass street closures. We are at what the city believes the problem is (bumper to bumper traffic) and not necessarily everything we think is a problem and they are willing to address what they see, not what we see as all of the problems. Now we are willing to take what they are willing to give and see if this will work to make things at an acceptable level for us. Is it my ideal of course not, but it doesn’t change the fact that this is all the city is willing to do. Again, every neighborhood in this city can go demand what ever they want, it does not mean that they will get it or anything if the city does not determine it is a problem and if the city determines they do have a problem, than they will apply every possible solution and then they will go with the first most minimal thing as possible that they believe will obtain the objective. They did not go straight to a street closure for 4 hours in our neighborhood. When this went to city council they then changed it to 3 hours. I have greatly appreciated a lot of your posts even though we disagree on things, you at times have made me step out of the box and re-evaluate my position and try to see if I would feel the same way if this wasn’t happening to me. However, either you have not heard a thing I or a few others have stated or you have your mind so made up about things that you can not step out of the box and really look at this from an objective point of view, if this is a serious concern to you.

If we could not exclude you or even us from our neighborhood and still get the cut through traffic out we would be happy to do so. Again, do you really think that we are thrilled about having to cut off an access point to our own neighborhood, forcing us to go around every time we leave our homes or come home during those 3 hours. I don’t even know what to say to you if you do think so. Unfortunately, things have gotten so unbearable for us that we are willing to do this so that we can receive some relief. Not to punish you or not to punish us, just to get some relief. Believe, me that we are still being punished the rest of the day and are receiving our additional lashings just to get some relief here. This does not come without a cost to us either.

As far as the special treatment, Wow, you just don’t get it do you, if you think we have, or are, or will receive any special treatment. The only special treatment we have received is from the rest of the city and the commuters that have battered and abused us above and beyond what you or most of the residence in this city has had to go through, just to shave a few minutes off of their time. Orangetj, sorry I forgot selfish me for wanting just a little of what most of the neighborhoods have in this city and what we had a few short years ago. Selfish me for wanting people to use one of the 4 main arterials surrounding our neighborhood not our neighborhood. Naïve, me to believe people would want to support their community and the people in it and do what they can to help us get some relief. I can understand this outrage if we were asking you to do something that we do not have to, or if we were going to receive some benefit above and beyond anyone else from this. But if you think that, after everything you have read, there just is know since in trying to explain it anymore.


QUOTE
divisiveness and resentful feelings among people


We are far above and beyond this here, with people who believe thier few minutes, is so much more important than our neighborhood, our daily quality of life, our safety, etc... etc.. especially when a significant amount of the time they are not even saving that few minutes because there is as much grid lock in here as there is on Folsom Blvd, so we are being sacrificed for a few minutes or for nothing.
Margaret Mead wrote, "Never doubt that a few thoughtful people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has."

#30 tessieca

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Posted 30 March 2004 - 09:31 AM

People speed around the corner one particular corner on our circular street. Can we just close that corner and make everyone travel the other direction on the circle? It would sure protect the kids that live near that corner.

There's a principle here that I think Bordercollie is trying to state. The streets in town were built and are maintained by the city. To close them off to some residents for the benefit of a few just doesn't seem right. The city council used to oppose gated communities, desiring to keep the streets and sidewalks open to residents. The path they're taking now is not right.

That is not to say that something shouldn't be done about Sibley -- just that they've done the wrong thing. Many of you probably don't cut through Turnpike because it's got about 5 stop signs along the way, not because you're just so darned considerate. Those kinds of things should be considered by the city.
"Sometimes on purpose and sometimes by accident, teachers' unions have a long history of working against the interests of children in the name of job security for adults. And Democrats in particular have a history of facilitating this obstructionism in exchange for campaign donations and votes." . . .Amanda Ripley re "Waiting for Superman" movie.




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