Jump to content






Photo
- - - - -

Teens To Plead Guilty


  • Please log in to reply
261 replies to this topic

#16 ChipShot

ChipShot

    Golfer-In-Chief

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,992 posts
  • Location:The Clubhouse

Posted 10 August 2007 - 08:38 AM

QUOTE(doj_gal @ Aug 10 2007, 09:30 AM) View Post
StevetheDad and Chipshot...so are you suggesting that they spend 10 years in prison with the scum of the earth that we as a society have deemed incapable of making something of themselves and contributing to our society?

I understand punishment but 10 years in prison will release them in there late 20's early 30's without an education, without any ADULT skills that they can turn into a profitable career to contribute to the society and under their belt is 10 years of angst against the system and learned ignorance due to the fact that they were subjected to the worst people who truely will never amount to anything...

Obviously it is hard to judge who is going to be a promising person and contribute to a community...but past practice will often times predict the future...

As a young adult I made mistakes..at 20 in the Military I got caught for underage drinking, which I was doing very frequently, almost to the point of it being an issue...I could have had the book thrown at me and spent time in jail..however due to the fact that I was a good person and the judge deemed I was someone whom would not benifit from jail time...he decided in manual labor(picking up garbage and cleaning around the on post bars), an Alcohol outpatient treatment program, confinement to my barracks for 45 days in which I could not go anywhere without letting my supervisor know and could not go off post and an embarassing punishment of placing my face on posters around the post with underage drinking is not allowed...it scared me and made me realize that one little slip up could change my life forever...what if I got in a car and drove?..what if I drank so much that I died....

I was 20, a legal adult and more mature than those 17 year olds...however I made a mistake, which I knew was wrong before hand and peer pressure got the best of me...much like I am sure peer pressure to speed got the best of them...however I am glad I did not recieve jail time and had the punishment I did...it made me realize that drinking is a serious responsibilty that I was obviously not ready for even though I was nearly 21 and now at 25, I barely ever drink...maybe every 2 months or so...and not to the point where I am drunk...just enjoy it responsibly as a legal adult...I think if I was jailed for the offense I may have not learned my lesson...

Different punishments work for different people...What do you feel would be a fitting punishment?

OMG...Their willful, wanton disregard for the lives and safety of people is reason enough for them to get prison time, let alone the fact that they KILLED someone. Hey, a skilled prosecutor may have even gotten a 2nd degree murder conviction, based on their age (they should have know better), and the fact that a reasonable person should have KNOWN that racing can, and often does, end in death of innocent parties. I get so tired of the squishy, touchy-feely in our society who are afraid to assign blame and punishment. I shake my head in disgust. So tired of it. When will it end?? When??
I have opinions, you have opinions. We'll just call it even...is that OK ??

#17 ChipShot

ChipShot

    Golfer-In-Chief

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,992 posts
  • Location:The Clubhouse

Posted 10 August 2007 - 08:52 AM

QUOTE(chris v @ Aug 10 2007, 09:44 AM) View Post
Ever drive and talk on your cell phone?

Yes, rarely. You win today's award for dumbest analogy. Congrats !!!
I have opinions, you have opinions. We'll just call it even...is that OK ??

#18 doj_gal

doj_gal

    MyFolsom's Back at it Kid!

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,545 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 10 August 2007 - 08:55 AM

QUOTE(ChipShot @ Aug 10 2007, 09:38 AM) View Post
OMG...Their willful, wanton disregard for the lives and safety of people is reason enough for them to get prison time, let alone the fact that they KILLED someone. Hey, a skilled prosecutor may have even gotten a 2nd degree murder conviction, based on their age (they should have know better), and the fact that a reasonable person should have KNOWN that racing can, and often does, end in death of innocent parties. I get so tired of the squishy, touchy-feely in our society who are afraid to assign blame and punishment. So tired of it. When will it end?? When??


Nine times out of Ten I would have totally agreed with you however due to my line of work I see on a daily basis what our prison system does to people...people who are both bad and good people prior to their mistakes after incarceration are never the same and often times continue upon that life path because they were not helped to be a better person...

I agree they killed an innocent person willingly and damn well sould have known better...they are to blame and should recieve a punishment...that is why I suggested the 10 year speaking engagement...that is a longtime and think they would have to speak weekly, if not more, for a decade about what they did...I think that would serve them much more so then throwing them in a box for 23 hours a day surrounded by the areas worst scum!! At their speaking engagements they would be able to impress upon young people the dangers of driving fast and recklessly and it would also allow the boys to truely realize what they did was wrong and not just a mistake...but honestly the worst thing in the world...to have to speak and relive those few moments every week...that's a punishment...have to raise money and awareness for their cause that's a POSITIVE PUNSIHMENT>>> the jail system, which they may get a few years in, will never help them or other young people like the speaches will...

Believe me when they did the drinking and driving class when I was a teenager...it was an older man, whom only got a dui and ran the prices for all the things he now has to pay for...who cares I sure didn't...he was not convincing and did a poor job at trying to convey his message...if you put those young boys, whom the students can identify with and who truely have a message of one bad judgement ruining lives, then you may in turn affect some change...if only in a few lives...that is something positive coming from something so horrible!!!!

Chipshot,,, if it was up to you what would your exact terms of punishment...time/place be?

#19 brown

brown

    Hall Of Famer

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,486 posts

Posted 10 August 2007 - 08:59 AM

Some time in prison is absolutely appropriate in this case. You are not talking about jaywalking, you are talking about 2 kids driving down Iron Point at 80(!) miles per hour in the middle of the day, by a busy area! I could care less that these kids were 'promising youth'. They knew exactly what they were doing, and exactly what the dangers were.

Of course they are remorseful. But that doesn't change the fact that a mother, wife, and by all accounts a wonderful teacher is gone because of their stupidity. Simply because the families can afford good lawyers does not change the fact that the sentence should include rehabilitation as well as punishment.

I'm not talking about throwing the book at them, but a few years in jail is appropriate in this case. At least other kids will see some tangible punishment for this type of crap, rather than this wishy-washy feel-good 'rehabilitation'.

By the way, nice slanted reporting by the Bee, describing them as 'two college-bound young men' in the first line. They were headed to community college, not Stanford. By that definition, any high schooler is 'college-bound'. I'm not putting down community college, but I wonder if they were 'college-bound' before the lawyers said they were.

The best justice money can buy, I guess. Simply shameful.
"To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift." - Steve Prefontaine

#20 folsombound

folsombound

    Living Legend

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,040 posts

Posted 10 August 2007 - 09:00 AM

QUOTE(doj_gal @ Aug 10 2007, 09:30 AM) View Post
StevetheDad and Chipshot...so are you suggesting that they spend 10 years in prison with the scum of the earth that we as a society have deemed incapable of making something of themselves and contributing to our society?

I understand punishment but 10 years in prison will release them in there late 20's early 30's without an education, without any ADULT skills that they can turn into a profitable career to contribute to the society and under their belt is 10 years of angst against the system and learned ignorance due to the fact that they were subjected to the worst people who truely will never amount to anything...

Obviously it is hard to judge who is going to be a promising person and contribute to a community...but past practice will often times predict the future...

As a young adult I made mistakes..at 20 in the Military I got caught for underage drinking, which I was doing very frequently, almost to the point of it being an issue...I could have had the book thrown at me and spent time in jail..however due to the fact that I was a good person and the judge deemed I was someone whom would not benifit from jail time...he decided in manual labor(picking up garbage and cleaning around the on post bars), an Alcohol outpatient treatment program, confinement to my barracks for 45 days in which I could not go anywhere without letting my supervisor know and could not go off post and an embarassing punishment of placing my face on posters around the post with underage drinking is not allowed...it scared me and made me realize that one little slip up could change my life forever...what if I got in a car and drove?..what if I drank so much that I died....

I was 20, a legal adult and more mature than those 17 year olds...however I made a mistake, which I knew was wrong before hand and peer pressure got the best of me...much like I am sure peer pressure to speed got the best of them...however I am glad I did not recieve jail time and had the punishment I did...it made me realize that drinking is a serious responsibilty that I was obviously not ready for even though I was nearly 21 and now at 25, I barely ever drink...maybe every 2 months or so...and not to the point where I am drunk...just enjoy it responsibly as a legal adult...I think if I was jailed for the offense I may have not learned my lesson...

Different punishments work for different people...What do you feel would be a fitting punishment?


No one died as a result of your drinking issue. These kids made a decision to race down a public street at outrageous speeds and the result is that a wife, a mother, a teacher, DIED! Their punishment cannot bring her back but there have to be serious consequences for their actions. They are remorseful now because they are facing the consequences, they did not appear to care that much at the time and kept denying what they were doing until the proof was out there. There has to be some significant punishment for their actions that resulted in the death of an innocent woman. Giving lectures to other students doesn't cut it. They also should not be eligible for driver's licenses for at least 10 years if ever.


#21 doj_gal

doj_gal

    MyFolsom's Back at it Kid!

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,545 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 10 August 2007 - 09:05 AM

QUOTE(brown @ Aug 10 2007, 09:59 AM) View Post
I'm not talking about throwing the book at them, but a few years in jail is appropriate in this case. At least other kids will see some tangible punishment for this type of crap, rather than this wishy-washy feel-good 'rehabilitation'.


How are those teens gonna SEE a tangible punishment? If those boys go to jail..not one teen will remember about it in 2 months...however if they are at the schools to speak to those teens they sure will remember then? I am not saying the should not recieve any jail time...I just don't feel jail time will help...they should be taking classes...regardless of at a community college or not...sorry you must be so much better cause you attended what college?....I went to community college and so do most who do not want to pay more for general education...but I guess you got a better education because you paid twice as much!!!!

#22 folsombound

folsombound

    Living Legend

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,040 posts

Posted 10 August 2007 - 09:10 AM

How about some very large fines for the parents (who are responsible since the kids weren't 18) and the 2 boys are required to join the Marines for 4 years (assuming the Marines would take them) If they get discharged early, they make up the time in prison. If nothing else, they would grow up.

#23 ChipShot

ChipShot

    Golfer-In-Chief

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,992 posts
  • Location:The Clubhouse

Posted 10 August 2007 - 09:13 AM

Oh Lord, doj_gal, I can't believe we're actually having this conversation. What kind of precedent does this set for this type of egregious behavior?? Huh?? What message does this send to other twerps out there who think they're Dale Earnhardt, Jr racing around being "cool"?? You've gotta be kidding me, doj_gal?? It's voluntary manslaughter at the very least, and deserves proper punishment, which should be 10 years. They'd be out in 5 for "good behavior" (another fraud, but I digress). Violent crime is out of control because we refuse to punish people properly, so people have no fear of committing crimes. And sorry, but it's people like you who share some of the blame. No offense.
I have opinions, you have opinions. We'll just call it even...is that OK ??

#24 brown

brown

    Hall Of Famer

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,486 posts

Posted 10 August 2007 - 09:14 AM

QUOTE(doj_gal @ Aug 10 2007, 10:05 AM) View Post
How are those teens gonna SEE a tangible punishment? If those boys go to jail..not one teen will remember about it in 2 months...however if they are at the schools to speak to those teens they sure will remember then? I am not saying the should not recieve any jail time...I just don't feel jail time will help...they should be taking classes...regardless of at a community college or not...sorry you must be so much better cause you attended what college?....I went to community college and so do most who do not want to pay more for general education...but I guess you got a better education because you paid twice as much!!!!


Don't hear what I'm not saying. I'm not putting down community college, I'm simply pointing out the biased reporting.

Yeah, they should have to speak about it, but they should also do some time. It's really simple...they killed someone. And jail time is not supposed to help - it's supposed to be punishment. Sometimes life isn't all about what's best for criminals.
"To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift." - Steve Prefontaine

#25 doj_gal

doj_gal

    MyFolsom's Back at it Kid!

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,545 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 10 August 2007 - 09:17 AM

QUOTE(folsombound @ Aug 10 2007, 10:00 AM) View Post
No one died as a result of your drinking issue. These kids made a decision to race down a public street at outrageous speeds and the result is that a wife, a mother, a teacher, DIED! Their punishment cannot bring her back but there have to be serious consequences for their actions. They are remorseful now because they are facing the consequences, they did not appear to care that much at the time and kept denying what they were doing until the proof was out there. There has to be some significant punishment for their actions that resulted in the death of an innocent woman. Giving lectures to other students doesn't cut it. They also should not be eligible for driver's licenses for at least 10 years if ever.


Uh yeah I know that...I was just trying to show that mistakes are made and peer pressure can force you to do stupid things...

I like ChrisV's point of the whole cell phone and driving...I do not have a cell phone and do not obviously talk and drive...however I know everyone on this topic has driven and talked on the phone...frankly for me it seems the same...when you figget with your phone and are paying attention by talking to someone else...you are distracted therefore you have just turned you and your vehicle into a killing machine by mindlessly operating it...Should they recieve the book and tons of jail time...

Frankly how do you know if they were remorseful or not..did you talk to the boys...were you in the court room?...if you fully believe everything "THE BEE" posts then you must "BEE" and idiot...or any news media for that matter...they turn stories to sell papers, as they see fit...not very fair or balanced but who cares as long as they make a profit...

And I do not see why people do not believe a 10 year madatory lecture program will not help not only those boys but many other people that they speak to...but I guess it's easy to judge others and say throw um in jail...but if it was you or your son, you would be pushing for an alternative punishment!!!

#26 ChipShot

ChipShot

    Golfer-In-Chief

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,992 posts
  • Location:The Clubhouse

Posted 10 August 2007 - 09:20 AM

QUOTE(doj_gal @ Aug 10 2007, 10:17 AM) View Post
I like ChrisV's point of the whole cell phone and driving...

OH...MY...GOD !!! I give up here. Unbelievable. thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif
I have opinions, you have opinions. We'll just call it even...is that OK ??

#27 doj_gal

doj_gal

    MyFolsom's Back at it Kid!

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,545 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 10 August 2007 - 09:25 AM

QUOTE(ChipShot @ Aug 10 2007, 10:13 AM) View Post
Oh Lord, doj_gal, I can't believe we're actually having this conversation. What kind of precedent does this set for this type of egregious behavior?? Huh?? What message does this send to other twerps out there who think they're Dale Earnhardt, Jr racing around being "cool"?? You've gotta be kidding me, doj_gal?? It's voluntary manslaughter at the very least, and deserves proper punishment, which should be 10 years. They'd be out in 5 for "good behavior" (another fraud, but I digress). Violent crime is out of control because we refuse to punish people properly, so people have no fear of committing crimes. And sorry, but it's people like you who share some of the blame. No offense.


How am I to blame? I am all for punishment...I work for the Dept of Justice...I just would like to see the punishment actually affect change not just punish..not just get justice for the victim...if it was my mom or me I would want a positive, multi-level reaching experience to come from that death..I would want others to see what could happen first hand without having to actually experience it themselves...kids honestly do not learn from hearing about speeding teens going to jail...they learn from first hand experiences of meeting the teens who did it, how their life is affected and how the lives of the victim/victim's family was shattered...I know I have been to parole meetings/boards and other functions that truely give you a persective beyond..."I KNOW EVERYTHING JAIL IS BEST" attitude!!!!

#28 doj_gal

doj_gal

    MyFolsom's Back at it Kid!

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,545 posts
  • Gender:Not Telling

Posted 10 August 2007 - 09:27 AM

QUOTE(ChipShot @ Aug 10 2007, 10:20 AM) View Post
OH...MY...GOD !!! I give up here. Unbelievable. thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif


Smart decision to quietly bow out...Good move mate!!!!

#29 camay2327

camay2327

    GO NAVY

  • Moderator
  • 11,481 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Folsom

Posted 10 August 2007 - 09:54 AM

These two deserve solid jail time. Say around 5-10 years each. They won't get that much because they were under age 18 at the time.

Enough said..... JAIL 5-10 years... And I do not have to give reasons why....
A VETERAN Whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount "up to and including their life". That is HONOR, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it. -Author unknown-

#30 Duke

Duke

    All Star

  • Premium Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 292 posts

Posted 10 August 2007 - 10:13 AM

Perhaps the minors are pleading simply because the DA's office is fully prepared to go forward with a provable Vehicular Manslaughter case...




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users