44 replies to this topic

[Darth Lefty]

I hear there was a study recently where the researchers suggested adding "tails" (like a dog's) to cars because waves and horns are too easy to misinterpret.

I find that my mindset changes quite a bit between car, bike, and motorcycle. Whichever one I'm in or on, I identify with, and reduce the others to their stereotypes.

Probably to the largest degree on the motorcycle - it's easily the most dangerous, demands the most attention, and due to the close attention and high perspective you tend to notice all the driver misbehavior, most especially people driving by Braille while playing with cell phones. The combination of mutual disrespect, danger coming from the inattention of others, small size, and easy escape pushes you toward hooliganism.

My bicycle mindset is quite different - I feel like I'm beneath drivers' attention, so I don't bear them ill will, any more than a mouse resents a horse. The low speed and extreme maneuverability, and in many places the isolated pathways, mean that cars are just giant, fast but predictable things to be avoided, and the traffic systems built for cars don't seem especially useful.

[tony]

I hear there was a study recently where the researchers suggested adding "tails" (like a dog's) to cars because waves and horns are too easy to misinterpret.

I find that my mindset changes quite a bit between car, bike, and motorcycle. Whichever one I'm in or on, I identify with, and reduce the others to their stereotypes.

Probably to the largest degree on the motorcycle - it's easily the most dangerous, demands the most attention, and due to the close attention and high perspective you tend to notice all the driver misbehavior, most especially people driving by Braille while playing with cell phones. The combination of mutual disrespect, danger coming from the inattention of others, small size, and easy escape pushes you toward hooliganism.

My bicycle mindset is quite different - I feel like I'm beneath drivers' attention, so I don't bear them ill will, any more than a mouse resents a horse. The low speed and extreme maneuverability, and in many places the isolated pathways, mean that cars are just giant, fast but predictable things to be avoided, and the traffic systems built for cars don't seem especially useful.

Very interesting observations, and I can concur (except for the motorcycle riding part, but I can certainly extrapolate to that).

I would comment though, that as a bicyclist, while I may not find the "traffic systems built for cars" very friendly or attractive, as the only access to most destinations, I definitely find them useful.

[Darth Lefty]

I would comment thought, that as a bicyclist, while I may not find the "traffic systems built for cars" very friendly or attractive, as the only access to most destinations, I definitely find them useful.

Maybe. Nearly any trail for foot traffic can accomodate a bicycle, unless it's a fragile road bike, and you can get off for steep pitches or stairs. But paved asphalt and grading sure makes things easier. As for most destinations... lots of people in my part of Orangevale and other less-expensive suburbs ride their completely-inappropriate-for-an-adult BMX bikes on the sidewalks and use the crosswalks. It may not be the utopian bicycle ideal, and I think they look a little foolish with their knees hitting their elbows. But they don't seem to mind.

When I'm on the bike I tend to think of cars much like I would trains. You know where they're likely going to go and they have a huge momentum, so it's easier for you to avoid them than rely on them to avoid you. Drivers often say cyclists or motorcyclists "came out of nowhere" like we were teleported in by the Enterprise, but the opposite is never true.

The motorcycle, car, and safety bicycle, and even airplanes all date from the same era and share technology, all derived from trains and carriages, all made possible by improvements in material science, machine tolerances, and understanding of dynamics. There are a few steam motorcycles that predate the safety bicycle. The inventors got tired of pedaling and wanted to go faster and not fall over. Karl Benz was an engine inventor for pay and a cyclist for fun, and the first cars were sold in bicycle shops in Paris. The Wrights ran a bicycle shop to finance their experiments. I think we've always all been stuck with one another.

[supermom]

Oh, and are his clothes really relevant?

Yes, if he's reading this I hope he sees my perspective that he really puts a lot of people's lives into danger with his stupid behavior. And if honking unnerves him, not my problem. Do you have any idea how dangerous that corner is? He would not have been the only person dead if someone came down that road and with another car in the lane beside them , at the rate of speed that occurs on that stretch of road.

So if he reads this thread and remotely remember an incident and thinks huh, that happened to me once or twice before- and then reads the description of the clothing--then certainly he may realize his actions nearly created a massacre

Just like one would identify a car that is driving poorly and a description of the driver, people are more likely to identify cyclists by the clothing they are wearing.

[tony]

Maybe. Nearly any trail for foot traffic can accomodate a bicycle, unless it's a fragile road bike, and you can get off for steep pitches or stairs. But paved asphalt and grading sure makes things easier. As for most destinations... lots of people in my part of Orangevale and other less-expensive suburbs ride their completely-inappropriate-for-an-adult BMX bikes on the sidewalks and use the crosswalks. It may not be the utopian bicycle ideal, and I think they look a little foolish with their knees hitting their elbows. But they don't seem to mind.

When I'm on the bike I tend to think of cars much like I would trains. You know where they're likely going to go and they have a huge momentum, so it's easier for you to avoid them than rely on them to avoid you. Drivers often say cyclists or motorcyclists "came out of nowhere" like we were teleported in by the Enterprise, but the opposite is never true.

The motorcycle, car, and safety bicycle, and even airplanes all date from the same era and share technology, all derived from trains and carriages, all made possible by improvements in material science, machine tolerances, and understanding of dynamics. There are a few steam motorcycles that predate the safety bicycle. The inventors got tired of pedaling and wanted to go faster and not fall over. Karl Benz was an engine inventor for pay and a cyclist for fun, and the first cars were sold in bicycle shops in Paris. The Wrights ran a bicycle shop to finance their experiments. I think we've always all been stuck with one another.

More great observations! However, riding on sidewalks is illegal in Folsom (kids excepted), and rarely a good idea if you are over 10 or riding more than 5 mph. Those cyclists who "came out of nowhere" more often than not came off of a sidewalk into an intersection riding the wrong way.

[tony]

Yes, if he's reading this I hope he sees my perspective that he really puts a lot of people's lives into danger with his stupid behavior. And if honking unnerves him, not my problem. Do you have any idea how dangerous that corner is? He would not have been the only person dead if someone came down that road and with another car in the lane beside them , at the rate of speed that occurs on that stretch of road.

So if he reads this thread and remotely remember an incident and thinks huh, that happened to me once or twice before- and then reads the description of the clothing--then certainly he may realize his actions nearly created a massacre

Just like one would identify a car that is driving poorly and a description of the driver, people are more likely to identify cyclists by the clothing they are wearing.

Yes, "...in the blue "USA" outfit" is a useful identifying description. However, "...skin tight lycro dude" sure seems like a judgement exposing your bias against cyclists. And what is "lycro" anyway?

[supermom]

Well, you can see it as a judgment if you want. I see it as a description. Not everyone wears the same thing when they ride a bike. My description was identifying one rider.

[ducky]

And what is "lycro" anyway?

It's the masculine form of "Lycra."

supermom's encounter reminds me of a cycling joke about a cyclist that was speeding down a narrow twisting road when he encounters a truck moving slowly up the hill. The driver is honking the horn yelling, "Pig! Pig!" as he passes. The bicyclist flipped him off and yelled some not-so-nice things. As the bicyclist turns the corner, he promptly collides with a pig in the road.

As for the older gentleman rider, I believe that is the same guy I saw almost get hit. I'm worried about him.

[tony]

It's the masculine form of "Lycra."

supermom's encounter reminds me of a cycling joke about a cyclist that was speeding down a narrow twisting road when he encounters a truck moving slowly up the hill. The driver is honking the horn yelling, "Pig! Pig!" as he passes. The bicyclist flipped him off and yelled some not-so-nice things. As the bicyclist turns the corner, he promptly collides with a pig in the road.

[tony]

Well, you can see it as a judgment if you want. I see it as a description. Not everyone wears the same thing when they ride a bike. My description was identifying one rider.

"Skin tight lycro dude" hardly narrows down the possible subjects.

[supermom]

They're called grape smugglers

Now that was a creative response!

[Darth Lefty]

However, riding on sidewalks is illegal in Folsom (kids excepted)

This strikes me as similar to your reminder a while back about the dog leash length law... something that almost no one knows about, few have ever been told about, the cops don't bother to enforce, hardly anyone has ever been punished for, etc. Unless and until there's some larger and worse incident that the cops would like to either throw the book at the cyclist because it was very bad, or give him a lesser ticket, because a bigger one is more headache for everyone and no one got badly hurt.

[tony]

This strikes me as similar to your reminder a while back about the dog leash length law... something that almost no one knows about, few have ever been told about, the cops don't bother to enforce, hardly anyone has ever been punished for, etc. Unless and until there's some larger and worse incident that the cops would like to either throw the book at the cyclist because it was very bad, or give him a lesser ticket, because a bigger one is more headache for everyone and no one got badly hurt.

I would beg to differ. It is consequential for two reasons: first (as the rest of the sentence implied) many a car-bike collision occurs when a sidewalk cyclist rides across a street in a crosswalk, even when the cyclist has the right of way (sidewalk riding is right up there with riding the wrong way and failing to stop at signals and stop signs as the most common car-bike crash causes) and second, when that happens, the cyclist is found at fault and the motorist gets off without so much as a ticket for failing to yield, even if the cyclist is dead, because the cyclist was illegally riding in the crosswalk (an extension of the sidewalk).

[JMB83]

The other day a cyclist came up from behind me ( he was in the bike lane) on Oak ave pkwy. He crossed directly infront of me before I got to the stoip light. He did not stop until he was 2 car legthns infront of the the white line- and actually in oncoming traffic on F-A. I came to a stop at the red and realized the significant danger of lots of people.

So I laid my hand on the horn, so that oncoming traffic coming dow n the hill might hear it. I kept my hand on the horn until my light turned green.

Can you believe the cyclist flipped me off?

I think I saved his life and he flips me off!!!! Whatever skin tight lycro dude in the blue "USA" outfit.

Do you drive a grey Ford SUV?