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Fcusd Negotiations

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#76 cw68

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 07:02 AM

I don't know if this is off-topic, but this discussion is reminding me how unfortunate it is that teachers are unionized and everyone is treated the same.

Mr. Rowe is an extraordinary, creative teacher and probably deserves to have his pay doubled. I can name a few other teachers about whom I would say the same.

On the other hand, there are some real clunkers out there. Too bad their pay can't be docked for every kid in whom they have extinguished the love of learning...

Not a fan of lock-step compensation systems. For most of us, if we want a raise, we have to perform. Better performance means bigger raise. And, we need to devise a system of grading teachers that is not based solely on test scores.


Absolutely agree.

#77 tigerman

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 07:44 AM

 

Again it comes back to what is "fair compensation".  Is the average of $70,000 fair, for ten months of hard work?  Do surrounding districts pay more than $70,000 on average?  Are they being irresponsible, or is our district being cheap?  Can they afford the benefits they are offering?  Do taxpayers agree, since they are the ultimate "employers"?  

 

First, i would debate the $70k number.  What isn't being taken into account is the amount of money employees in this district pay toward their health insurance.  I pay only 200/month as a single person, but my colleagues that have families pay over $1100/month.  When you look at what other districts offer as far as benefits, our district is at the bottom of the rankings.

 

But here's another interesting point.  According to our own district info, teachers in this district make $5-6K below the state average, yet our superintendent makes $15k MORE than the state average?  Isn't that a bit of a red flag that something isn't right?

 

And if the district is so concerned about its finances, why did they just post a job for a multimedia person?  They want to hire and spend money on a position that could be easily filled by any student.  The point is that they have certain priorities, and teachers are NOT one of them. 



#78 cw68

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 10:07 AM

 

First, i would debate the $70k number.  What isn't being taken into account is the amount of money employees in this district pay toward their health insurance.  I pay only 200/month as a single person, but my colleagues that have families pay over $1100/month.  When you look at what other districts offer as far as benefits, our district is at the bottom of the rankings.

 

But here's another interesting point.  According to our own district info, teachers in this district make $5-6K below the state average, yet our superintendent makes $15k MORE than the state average?  Isn't that a bit of a red flag that something isn't right?

 

And if the district is so concerned about its finances, why did they just post a job for a multimedia person?  They want to hire and spend money on a position that could be easily filled by any student.  The point is that they have certain priorities, and teachers are NOT one of them. 

 

 

I also think that part of the equation should be how much teachers spend out of their own pockets to do their job. I don't have to spend a penny on supplies. That's not true for teachers.



#79 nomad

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 10:52 AM

 

 

I also think that part of the equation should be how much teachers spend out of their own pockets to do their job. I don't have to spend a penny on supplies. That's not true for teachers.

 

My experience has been that the teachers ask student parents to provide tons of basic supplies each year. Hard to say exactly what the teachers are paying for themselves.



#80 Noworkconstructionjob

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 11:57 AM

 

My experience has been that the teachers ask student parents to provide tons of basic supplies each year. Hard to say exactly what the teachers are paying for themselves.

I agree, the teachers ask for all sorts of basic supplies; pencils, paper, facial tissues and the like.  Does or does not the school district allot a specific amount of supplies for each classroom?  Are the teachers asking for these supplies for their own personal use?  Are the teacher's asking for these supplies as a proxy for the district since they may or may not be outfitted with basic supplies.  Is it just a defacto mode of operation for the district to not outfit classrooms with basic supplies knowing that the teachers will approach their own students/parents for supplies thus eliminating some or all of this cost from the school district and if so providing a decided cost savings for the school district?  Why would a teacher ask for these, as you termed it, "basic" supplies from parents each year.  Sometimes the students are asked mid-year to bring in more supplies.  Sometimes students are asked to purchase expensive calculators for higher level math courses.  Sometimes students are asked to "donate" money for class trips, etc...  Why is that happening?  Why isn't the school district paying any of those costs?


Edited by Noworkconstructionjob, 26 March 2015 - 12:17 PM.


#81 rightwingknot

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 12:30 PM

I agree, the teachers ask for all sorts of basic supplies; pencils, paper, facial tissues and the like.  Does or does not the school district allot a specific amount of supplies for each classroom?  Are the teachers asking for these supplies for their own personal use?  Are the teacher's asking for these supplies as a proxy for the district since they may or may not be outfitted with basic supplies.  Is it just a defacto mode of operation for the district to not outfit classrooms with basic supplies knowing that the teachers will approach their own students/parents for supplies thus eliminating some or all of this cost from the school district and if so providing a decided cost savings for the school district?  Why would a teacher ask for these, as you termed it, "basic" supplies from parents each year.  Sometimes the students are asked mid-year to bring in more supplies.  Sometimes students are asked to purchase expensive calculators for higher level math courses.  Sometimes students are asked to "donate" money for class trips, etc...  Why is that happening?  Why isn't the school district paying any of those costs?

 

Good questions.  The district claims a fiduciary responsibility to look at the whole picture as trustees of the public's money.  Yet, they seem to always overlook their employees and not adequately fund teacher supplies in the classroom.  They seem to want to control 100% of revenue in addition to all of public opinion.  Take the district's latest website additions regarding negotiations.  Very slanted, often misleading.  'He who controls the message controls the masses.'

 

The teachers are responding though with facts:  www.fcea.com


"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money [to spend]."

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#82 tigerman

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 01:32 PM

I agree, the teachers ask for all sorts of basic supplies; pencils, paper, facial tissues and the like.  Does or does not the school district allot a specific amount of supplies for each classroom?  Are the teachers asking for these supplies for their own personal use?  Are the teacher's asking for these supplies as a proxy for the district since they may or may not be outfitted with basic supplies.  Is it just a defacto mode of operation for the district to not outfit classrooms with basic supplies knowing that the teachers will approach their own students/parents for supplies thus eliminating some or all of this cost from the school district and if so providing a decided cost savings for the school district?  Why would a teacher ask for these, as you termed it, "basic" supplies from parents each year.  Sometimes the students are asked mid-year to bring in more supplies.  Sometimes students are asked to purchase expensive calculators for higher level math courses.  Sometimes students are asked to "donate" money for class trips, etc...  Why is that happening?  Why isn't the school district paying any of those costs?

 

I will respond as clearly as I can. 

 

1. Supplies: many supplies are paid for out of department funds, but these funds are limited, and we often have to purchase our own before another purchase order comes through.  And we are not reimbursed for that.  And if materials are needed for a specific project or assignment, we don't get those materials from the district...we pay for it ourself.  And while many business folks can write off business expenses, we are only allowed to write off up to $250 per year.  I spent around $800 on supplies last year.  The only things I ask for from parents are boxes of kleenex and extra hand sanitizers. 

 

2. Equipment: caluclators are usually required in higher level math, and teachers at my site have them to loan out during class, but students are encouraged to purchase their own for homework.  When I was in high school, our teachers required us to purchase our calculators.  School districts rarely provide them

 

I am fortunate to teach high school...I can't imagine what my elementary colleagues spend on a yearly basis.



#83 FolsomEJ

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 03:08 PM

I am on the PTA board at a local Folsom Elementary School and PTA provides funds to teachers to reimburse for school supplies.  The funds budgeted are never fully claimed.

 

That does not imply that teachers are not spending out of pocket at our school, but there are options that are going unused.

 

(I am pro-teacher, but that bullet list from the union was atrocious.  Someone needs a tutor.  Also, my health premiums are up, salary frozen and bonus cut.  Net-Net we are belt-tightening.)



#84 nomad

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 03:33 PM

Funny thing is there were recently a bunch of job opening in the District. Librarian and several others. Why are they hiring if they are belt tightening?



#85 JoAnne Reinking

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 05:47 PM

Our teachers' union - FCEA  has also created a website
Thank you for being informed and involved members of our FCUSD community.
 


#86 supermom

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 06:08 PM

One thing I know is that when my kids were in schools in southern california, every single district down there is plugged into a shameless beggary program. They have people in every single district whose sole purpose is to beg. They beg really well. Students do not pay for buses. Students do not pay for a free lunch or a free breakfast. Students do not pay for after school care. Students do not pay for before school instrument lessons, math tutoring or ESL tutoring. Students do not pay for cheerleading uniforms, or cheer camps. Students do not pay for jazz, ensemble, marching band uniforms, or travel or competitions. Same with football, swim teams, basketball (my children were involved with all the sports mentioned-every single one of them was completely sponsored by big businesses and churches. 

They don't care if the money is donated from churches or anti religion or small business or big business. They do not promote the businesses on the campuses or at meets or recitals; either. 

 

The entire idea that parents have to pay for all these things is shocking to southern california transplants. Sure you might be asked to pay for spending money, or in some cases to help with gas money for long trips--but by and large--being a student in southern california really is all about getting a FREE public education. 

 

Northern California schools have been scamming parents for years. They scam teachers and admin, as well.

Schools in Southern Ca have nearly 2x the student body-much older school facilities with real issues like earthquake structural worthiness-yet the students go to school every day, get educated, account for a majority of the state population for school testing annually, and still manage to have perks like sports, music, and art programs.

 

So do I think teachers should get a pay raise now and again? Sure. Do I think that the school district is seriously misguided in how they handle their money? Abso-fluking-ly.  

Whats the answer to the problems here?

Start seeing changes by transporting some of those professional beggars up here and change the atmosphere in the offices at the school board meetings. A humble admin office is one who only makes a hundred dollars more a paycheck than his teachers. 

And for pete sake- someone start enacting the new laws about dead-beat teachers. Geesh I wish that had included the admin in its language.



#87 Cousin Eddie

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 08:14 PM

Soooooo . . . Here's the District's salary schedule: http://www.fcusd.org...SCHED 14-15.pdf

Remember - this is for 10 months of work - and more holidays than most of us get. I agree some teachers deserve more - but I can't support district-wide increases with the dead-weight teachers in some of the schools. I've had some bad experiences at a couple of Folsom school teachers - and would be happy to hear they didn't get raises - because they do a crappy job teaching. For those that do a great job - I'd be happy to show up at the school board and support a raise for YOU!

Here's the union dues schedule for teachers: http://www.fcea.com/...actaneadues.pdf

$1029/year for Union dues? Ouch. I wonder how much in teacher salary - statewide - ends up in Union coffers.

We've also been given long lists of supplies - a wish list at the beginning of the year. I've also had teachers tell us they'll gladly accept gift cards in lieu of supplies. I now wonder if some double dip - use the gift cards to purchase and seek reimbursement from the PTA. hmmmmmmmmmm.

#88 QLFixBoy

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Posted 26 March 2015 - 09:16 PM

My wife has always had to  provide receipts when she purchases anything using PTA/PTO funds.  The receipt would indicate whether she used a gift card, so Cousin Eddie, teachers are not double dipping. Nice sentiment. 

 

If you don't want to buy anything on the wish list, don't.   Pretty simple, really.



#89 rightwingknot

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 06:10 AM

I am on the PTA board at a local Folsom Elementary School and PTA provides funds to teachers to reimburse for school supplies.  The funds budgeted are never fully claimed.

 

That does not imply that teachers are not spending out of pocket at our school, but there are options that are going unused.

 

(I am pro-teacher, but that bullet list from the union was atrocious.  Someone needs a tutor.  Also, my health premiums are up, salary frozen and bonus cut.  Net-Net we are belt-tightening.)

 

That should not be PTA's function.  Imagine what PTA could do if the district provided the necessary supplies???


"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money [to spend]."

- Margaret Thatcher

#90 Howdy

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Posted 27 March 2015 - 09:15 AM

 

First, i would debate the $70k number.  What isn't being taken into account is the amount of money employees in this district pay toward their health insurance.  I pay only 200/month as a single person, but my colleagues that have families pay over $1100/month.  When you look at what other districts offer as far as benefits, our district is at the bottom of the rankings.

 

 

$200 a month is not bad. My wife's district is $600 for a single person and that does not include dental or vision. The family plan is not cheap. Where are all these free and cheap benefits teachers get? Maybe in other districts I suppose. We use my work benefits which cover the family for medical, dental and vision for about $180 a month.






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