206 replies to this topic

[bishmasterb]

Saving fiat money can hardly be considered avoiding hunger in the future.

That's what the gold is for. Although silver is probably more practical for day to day essentials like bread and clean water.

Did you miss the inflation adjusted value of gold? Should be $2000 an ounce though it's only worth $800 an ounce, so yes, it preserves at least 40% of your wealth. Better than nothing.

Gold and silver buy pretty much the same goods and services today that they did in 1913, while the value of a 1913 dollar is around five cents.

With respect to your $2000.00 figure, I assume you're simply converting the 1980 spike high to current dollars? True, if you just happened to buy your entire gold allocation in January of 1980 you're, well...what's the word I'm looking for...screwed. A few months in either direction though and you would've bought at half that price. Which is a lesson, never make rash speculations unless you know what you're doing.

Of course, for those that know a little history, one can always count on the government arresting you for holding gold, so even that 40% is suspect.

They can't take what they don't know about. And I'm pretty confident they won't be taking gold held internationally, specifically from within a country that respects individual privacy.

I really enjoyed the "renting from the government" comment. Few people really give enough thought to that. They think about their mortgage payment, and only come to realize they're renting from the government when they no longer have the mortgage payment, and still shell out $500+ a month.

Yeah, it's sad that in a "free" country, we're all still really just renters. Don't make your rent payment (property tax) and your landlord kicks you out, and rents to someone else.

Now, to your theory on happiness. Does saving today really translate to happiness in the future? You can only be happy in the present, and we can try to plan for the future, but trigger happy Bush can easily change that future. He's doing a great job so far. Maybe the future is filled with radiation after WWIII and all your savings are worth $0.02. In which case you sub-optimized your happiness.

Well, when it comes to the future, I simply respect the odds. Chances are, I'll be here several more decades at least. As far as the government situation goes, I suppose that's where having real, private, protected assets comes in handy.

[bishmasterb]

thanks, Mylo. So you think its a good idea to buy through my brokerage account. Any specific suggestions about what to buy? Like an index fund? or a gold share? I'm just not sure how its done.

One of the benefits of gold is privacy, purchasing through a brokerage account removes that benefit.

You can buy gold coins (Eagles, Maple Leafs or Krugerands) through just about any coin dealer. If you purchase more than $1000.00 in precious metals, you don't have to pay sales tax.

[4thgenFolsomite]

One of the benefits of gold is privacy, purchasing through a brokerage account removes that benefit.

You can buy gold coins (Eagles, Maple Leafs or Krugerands) through just about any coin dealer. If you purchase more than $1000.00 in precious metals, you don't have to pay sales tax.

do you have to tell the dealer where you live?

[mylo]

Yeah, but then you gotta pay some whacky swede to hold onto it for you. And good luck finding him when the revolution comes!

[bishmasterb]

do you have to tell the dealer where you live?

No, definitely not. And gold dealers can legally handle cash transactions totaling up to $10,000 annually per individual without submitting any paperwork to the government. So, as long as you do less than $10,000 in business per dealer annually, and you pay in cash, there is absolutely no paper trail.

[CostcoLover]

That's what the gold is for. Although silver is probably more practical for day to day essentials like bread and clean water.

Come on out and admit it Bish, we know why you moved to MO. Trying to find a defensible position when all hell breaks loose?

Gold and silver buy pretty much the same goods and services today that they did in 1913, while the value of a 1913 dollar is around five cents.

Actually it's worth a lot more than that. I couldn't find a 1913 dollar (probably all sold out) , but did find a 1917 dollar worth about $475. And a 1913 nickel is worth over $4M

With respect to your $2000.00 figure, I assume you're simply converting the 1980 spike high to current dollars? True, if you just happened to buy your entire gold allocation in January of 1980 you're, well...what's the word I'm looking for...screwed. A few months in either direction though and you would've bought at half that price. Which is a lesson, never make rash speculations unless you know what you're doing.

Yes, I was referring to the last time gold hit $800.

They can't take what they don't know about. And I'm pretty confident they won't be taking gold held internationally, specifically from within a country that respects individual privacy.

Yeah, it's sad that in a "free" country, we're all still really just renters. Don't make your rent payment (property tax) and your landlord kicks you out, and rents to someone else.

Well, when it comes to the future, I simply respect the odds. Chances are, I'll be here several more decades at least. As far as the government situation goes, I suppose that's where having real, private, protected assets comes in handy.

Shh, don't burst people's imaginary bubble! We want them to feel wealthy and feel like "owners" so that they keep the economy afloat by borrowing and spending.

I'm not too sure about the private bit. Switzerland? Panama? Singapore? Transactions must take place somehow and that's trackable by any modern day fascist empire.

You can diversify with the Euro, CHF, even the loon, or perhaps a nice MERKX (NL) basket or World currency account, but none of that, not even gold, will be of much use. Most of the food we consume isn't local and that whole chain would be hurt by a dollar collapse. You know what would happen to oil and when oil goes, so goes transport.

If you grow your own and consume local food, you'd be better off than the rest, but even then you're bound to run into problems as the starving masses go looking for food. You'd have to tend the land and protect it, not to mention that growing food also requires money.

I know, I know, it's a long walk to MO.

On that scale, you'd have to leave the country. We'll be like the Mexicans sneaking into Canada.

So not to worry, it'll be an orderly transition to the Amero. Afterall, you have to weaken the dollar to get close in value to the larger neighboring countries like Mexico and Canada before you can transition to the Amero. Canada has been achieved, Mexico is next.

And the Amero, like the Euro, represents a whole new currency to keep the game going.

[CostcoLover]

No, definitely not. And gold dealers can legally handle cash transactions totaling up to $10,000 annually per individual without submitting any paperwork to the government. So, as long as you do less than $10,000 in business per dealer annually, and you pay in cash, there is absolutely no paper trail.

Assuming you pay in cash and not put it on your credit card...

Besides, they'll just confiscate it when you show up at any store and try to buy food with it.

[bishmasterb]

Come on out and admit it Bish, we know why you moved to MO. Trying to find a defensible position when all hell breaks loose?

Actually, I'm pretty unprepared for a true SHTF scenario, but I think that's highly unlikely. But I wouldn't bet against a prolonged economic depression. Who knows though, maybe our spending spree will simply continue on for another 50 years or so. Never underestimate the power of bad government policy to prolong our fantasy economy.

Actually it's worth a lot more than that. I couldn't find a 1913 dollar (probably all sold out) , but did find a 1917 dollar worth about $475. And a 1913 nickel is worth over $4M

I knew you were going there! Good thing I didn't say a 1927 double eagle in proof condition!

I'm not too sure about the private bit. Switzerland? Panama? Singapore? Transactions must take place somehow and that's trackable by any modern day fascist empire.

Where there's a will, there's a way. Books are published on such subjects.

You can diversify with the Euro, CHF, even the loon, or perhaps a nice MERKX (NL) basket or World currency account, but none of that, not even gold, will be of much use. Most of the food we consume isn't local and that whole chain would be hurt by a dollar collapse. You know what would happen to oil and when oil goes, so goes transport.

If you grow your own and consume local food, you'd be better off than the rest, but even then you're bound to run into problems as the starving masses go looking for food. You'd have to tend the land and protect it, not to mention that growing food also requires money.

I know, I know, it's a long walk to MO.

On that scale, you'd have to leave the country. We'll be like the Mexicans sneaking into Canada.

Frankly, I'm not worried about the prospects of our economy completely collapsing, even though it should. People have been predicting the collapse of the dollar for decades... Sure, it could happen tomorrow, but it might be 50 or 100 years. Who knows.

With that said. I can walk outside and pick corn if I have to. We'll just have to build a wall to keep out all you coastal folks!

[bishmasterb]

Assuming you pay in cash and not put it on your credit card...

True, checks and credit cards could be traced. But really, I think you'd have to be somewhat high profile for that to happen. Best to just live simply and privately below the radar. But to your point, cash is always the best for real privacy concerns.

[CostcoLover]

Any of you using this strategy?

I know how everyone loves that mortgage interest tax deduction so I thought I'd throw it out there.

[Maitreya]

CostcoLover Posted Nov 2 2007, 10:08 AM
Any of you using this strategy?

I know how everyone loves that mortgage interest tax deduction so I thought I'd throw it out there.
bishmasterb Posted Nov 1 2007, 05:48 PM


Nice post CL. I use that method, and also float some of my (good) business debt on low/no interest unsecured credit cards (CC). While not tax deductable, the rate is so low on the CC that it doesn't matter that there is no tax deduction. (eg HELOC going for 6% to 9% and tax deduction is at 30%. Net 4% or 6% to you after the tax deduction. The CC float offers consolidation at 0.99% for the next 6 months and is 300% to 600% cheaper without the tax deduction, though not including the transfer fee depending on the amt owed and transferred.) The HELOC gives you the power to say NO to the current CC until another CC sends you the next debt bridge. You need to be vigilant to pay on time, and pay it down to avoid their CC gimickery if you use this tactic.

Peace,
M

[asbestoshills]

If there is ever a real scare to the economy, more than likely our government will give out vouchers of cash to every American...How do you think we stay in business now? You can't believe what you hear on the news...Our government prints up money all the time with no backing.....How do you think we pay for the war and all of our debts to Japan and CHina...If there is ever a nuclear bomb or natural disaster that ruins a portion of the USA and China and Japan try to cash in, the gov't will just print more money...There is the gov't you see and the gov't that you don't....Uncle Sam should have a new name...Pimp and the citizens of this country are his Hos....The middle class are a dillusionary bunch incl. most of the people reading this forum who don't have their homes paid off or any other asset.....Middle class Americans can't even count on their health care and only 28% have private pensions that pay more than social security...Every time I see Suzie ORman on TV and she talks about having a million here and there it makes me cringe...Most Americans, have less than 3 months of savings...
Then when you take into account that life has a way of preventing best made plans...such as an illness of a parent or child, then even if you are frugal you still won't have enough to fund your senior years...When is the last time you saw anything of value that your taxes paid for? Our infrastructure is crumbling, no universal healthcare, and public schools that are failing our students.....It's embarrasing that our life expectancy, education, standard of living, savings % are lower than many other countries....Americans are not number one anymore and everyone knows it but us...Until the middleclass stand-up for themselves, there won't be decent pensions or healthcare or even clean air....Just look at all of the TV shows selling the illussion of wealth...Donald Trump makes it all seem easy...but it's not...remember his dad wasn't exactly poor....Also, he used the bankruptcy laws before they were tightened so much for the middle class to blow off his creditors in the early 90s....If even a small portion of the middle class blew off their debts, there would be a debtors prison pushed through congress...