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School Shootings In 2018

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#1 Who_Do_You_Trust

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 04:47 PM

Thought it might be interesting to start a tally of school shootings in 2018.  My hope is to remind people about the never-ending problem of school-age kids getting killed and shot in their school.  These kids could be yours.

 

In a society of wall-to-wall firearms, these incidents should be no surprise.   Lawmakers refuse to consider even the most modest and common sense regulations that might curtail some of the violence.  Keep in mind that a bill in congress last year that prohibited people on the terror watch list from purchasing guns was voted down almost immediately.  The will of the people seems to have little power these days.  90% of voters believe better background checks are necessary, but again, congress is completely unwilling to act.  EXCEPT when it benefits the gun lobby.  Last week, the house passed the Concealed Carry Reciprocity Act of 2017.  It says that anyone with a C/C permit from one state, can carry a concealed weapon in any other state without restriction.  If it passes the Senate and gets signed, not only can crazy people from California go in and shoot up schools, anyone from any other state can come into California and shoot up the schools.  Hard to believe.

 

OK - THE DATA:

 

Since Jan 1, 2018, there have been 10 school shootings where someone has been injured or killed.  Nearly two a week.  And so the pro-gun folks don't go nuts, this number was taken from Fox News, the only news source you trust. I just want to keep this issue visible.  Sadly, no one seems to care until it happens to them.  Only then will they change their minds.   

 

I will update the number from time to time.

 



#2 Chris

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 06:07 PM

I don't see your posts anymore since you elected not to view mine.   But I am sure it's filled with anti gun, anti 2A, anti NRA rhetoric.  Oh, and I am sure this school was a "gun free" zone brought to you not by the right but by the left.   A janitor, a couple of teachers with their CCW's and this does not last long.   Think about it.  Cowards always go to the place where they know nobody will shoot back.   Proof he was a coward, he gave up to the police and is still alive.   Chris


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#3 The Average Joe

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Posted 14 February 2018 - 11:20 PM

Funny, Switzerland is "wall to wall" firearms and they have nearly zero gun violence.   It is the culture, not the guns. (US ranks 31st in the world for gun violence per capita).  Venezuela, Honduras, Phillipines, Brazil, Jamaica, and Thailand (among others) all have much higher rates despite having less access to guns.  Frankly, if you look at the various laws, socio-economic factors, government systems, etc, there is little correlation to any of it.  What there is a HUGE correlation to is gangs. If you take the gang data out of the US, the rate drops precipitously.  We have a tremendous amount of gangs in the US, many from those countries that do not value life.

 

As for the stupidest phrase ever uttered, "common sense gun laws", what exactly do you propose? 

 

The terror watch list bill was stupidly written. I'm glad it was voted down. I would have liked o see something similar that was Constitutional.  Unfortunately, ANYONE can be put on a no fly  list without warrant.  You simply cannot deny someone their inalienable rights without them being able to challenge their accusers. AND you cannot do so without giving them a right to appeal the arbitrary process of no fly lists.

 

What is a "better" background check? Define it.

 

Concealed carry reciprocity is a good law. It is very difficult to get a carry permit in CA,.  You don't see people with CC licenses doing stupid stuff with their weapon very often.  They are TRAINED to carry. They are not your problem.   Prior to the bill, most states did have reciprocity. In the west, most did except for anti gun CA.

 

I am all for keeping the guns out of psychos hands. If you can offer ANY idea on how to do that without infringing on my rights, I will join you in your cause.  CA already has a waiting period, a magazine ban, ammo background checks, purchase background checks, handgun certificate requirement, hunting license  requirement, and demonstration you know how to load/unload/handle your weapon requirement. Do ANY of those reduce the odds of a wacko going postal?  Nope. They may have a small effect on accidental injuries...


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive" -- C.S. Lewis

 

If the only way to combat "global warming" was to lower taxes, we would never hear of the issue again. - Anonymous

 

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one" — Thomas Paine, 𝘊𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘚𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦 (1776)

 


#4 The Average Joe

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 11:30 AM

Another failure by the authorities... wasn't this also the case with several other shooters that wee reported for behavior to the authorities who did nothing?

 

https://townhall.com...hooter-n2449708

 

Last fall, a Mississippi bail bondsman and frequent YouTube vlogger noticed an alarming comment left on one of his videos. "I'm going to be a professional school shooter," said a user named Nikolas Cruz.

The YouTuber, 36-year-old Ben Bennight, alerted the FBI, emailing a screenshot of the comment to the bureau's tips account as well as calling the Mississippi FBI field office.


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive" -- C.S. Lewis

 

If the only way to combat "global warming" was to lower taxes, we would never hear of the issue again. - Anonymous

 

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one" — Thomas Paine, 𝘊𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘚𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦 (1776)

 


#5 camay2327

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 11:50 AM

Check this out. Thank you grandma....

 

 

https://www.yahoo.co...-152359140.html

 


A VETERAN Whether active duty, retired, national guard or reserve - is someone who, at one point in their life, wrote a blank check made payable to "The United States of America" for an amount "up to and including their life". That is HONOR, and there are way too many people in this country who no longer understand it. -Author unknown-

#6 Who_Do_You_Trust

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 11:59 AM

Funny, Switzerland is "wall to wall" firearms and they have nearly zero gun violence.   It is the culture, not the guns. (US ranks 31st in the world for gun violence per capita).  Venezuela, Honduras, Phillipines, Brazil, Jamaica, and Thailand (among others) all have much higher rates despite having less access to guns.  Frankly, if you look at the various laws, socio-economic factors, government systems, etc, there is little correlation to any of it.  What there is a HUGE correlation to is gangs. If you take the gang data out of the US, the rate drops precipitously.  We have a tremendous amount of gangs in the US, many from those countries that do not value life.

 

As for the stupidest phrase ever uttered, "common sense gun laws", what exactly do you propose? 

 

The terror watch list bill was stupidly written. I'm glad it was voted down. I would have liked o see something similar that was Constitutional.  Unfortunately, ANYONE can be put on a no fly  list without warrant.  You simply cannot deny someone their inalienable rights without them being able to challenge their accusers. AND you cannot do so without giving them a right to appeal the arbitrary process of no fly lists.

 

What is a "better" background check? Define it.

 

Concealed carry reciprocity is a good law. It is very difficult to get a carry permit in CA,.  You don't see people with CC licenses doing stupid stuff with their weapon very often.  They are TRAINED to carry. They are not your problem.   Prior to the bill, most states did have reciprocity. In the west, most did except for anti gun CA.

 

I am all for keeping the guns out of psychos hands. If you can offer ANY idea on how to do that without infringing on my rights, I will join you in your cause.  CA already has a waiting period, a magazine ban, ammo background checks, purchase background checks, handgun certificate requirement, hunting license  requirement, and demonstration you know how to load/unload/handle your weapon requirement. Do ANY of those reduce the odds of a wacko going postal?  Nope. They may have a small effect on accidental injuries...

 

OK.   I get it.  You've decided that your 2A rights are more important than someone else's child being killed in their classroom.   IMO, a pathetic position.  Hope your children don't become victims.

 

"Concealed carry reciprocity is a good law."  So, we get to have, in our midst, people carrying firearms that were approved for C/C by the officials in another state?  Gee,  I don't remember voting for the sheriff of some remote county in Nevada.  Do you??

 

"As for the stupidest phrase ever uttered, "common sense gun laws", what exactly do you propose? "   Let's start with some laws that are TRULY common sense.  In 2013, Iowa passed a law that allows blind people to carry firearms in public.  does this make common sense to you??  If it does, I would LOVE to hear your explanation.  How about keeping firearms out of the hands of people who have spousal restraining orders against them?  Tell me what part of common sense that violates.

 

Why not prohibit people on the terrorist watch list from owning firearms?  When they created the terrorist watch list, my name appeared on it.  It took two phone calls and a background check (4 weeks) to get my name removed.  Anyone can have their name removed, AS LONG AS there are no problems in your background - which is why your name is on the list to start with.  Getting your name off the list AIN'T THAT HARD!  

 

We're never going to agree on anything here.  The problem I'm seeing is that Americans are losing the respect for life and becoming uncaring about their fellow citizens - just like the 3rd world countries you mention.  NOTHING HAPPENED after 54 people were killed and 800+ were injured by someone in Las Vegas a few months back.  NOTHING...

 

We're at two school shooting a week right now.  What will it take before people say "enough"?  Three shootings a week?  Four?  How about a daily school shooting?  People won't care until it's their kid in the coffin.

 

I'm not going to win this argument, so maybe time to leave.  I have an offer down on a 2 acre parcel in New Zealand.  We'll see if they accept.  



#7 The Average Joe

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 12:24 PM

 

OK.   I get it.  You've decided that your 2A rights are more important than someone else's child being killed in their classroom.   IMO, a pathetic position.  Hope your children don't become victims.

 

Straw man. My 2nd Amendment rights are more important than knee jerk reactionary laws. If you can offer ONE law that would have prevented this, youget my vote. No one's child should face violence in a classroom. It was a gun free zone though, so how could that possibly happen?

 

"Concealed carry reciprocity is a good law."  So, we get to have, in our midst, people carrying firearms that were approved for C/C by the officials in another state?  Gee,  I don't remember voting for the sheriff of some remote county in Nevada.  Do you??

 

What does a Sheriff election have to do with anything? If you say that some Sheriffs are too lax, that is part of the problem. It shouldn't be a whim of the local Sheriff who gets a license. We use a NATIONAL database to check people, why not a national requirement for all CC permits? That way, we make sure all are equally trained.

 

"As for the stupidest phrase ever uttered, "common sense gun laws", what exactly do you propose? "   Let's start with some laws that are TRULY common sense.  In 2013, Iowa passed a law that allows blind people to carry firearms in public.  does this make common sense to you??  If it does, I would LOVE to hear your explanation.  How about keeping firearms out of the hands of people who have spousal restraining orders against them?  Tell me what part of common sense that violates.

 

Again with the strawmen. I didn't vote for the Iowa law and I wouldn't have here. Not sure how you are going to enforce the restraining order one, but if possible, I would vote for it. I would go one further and allow those filing restraining orders a waiver on their 10 day waiting period (provided they took basic firearm training).

 

Why not prohibit people on the terrorist watch list from owning firearms?  When they created the terrorist watch list, my name appeared on it.  It took two phone calls and a background check (4 weeks) to get my name removed.  Anyone can have their name removed, AS LONG AS there are no problems in your background - which is why your name is on the list to start with.  Getting your name off the list AIN'T THAT HARD!  

 

Because we have a thing called due process outlined in the 5th Amendment; "...nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law;"  You cannot deny me my 2nd Amendment right without due process.

 

 

We're never going to agree on anything here.  The problem I'm seeing is that Americans are losing the respect for life and becoming uncaring about their fellow citizens - just like the 3rd world countries you mention.

 

Actually, we do seem to agree on that.. Is that because there are no men raising children? Is it because the culture of those countries has been imported? Is it violence in media? Is it the psychotropic drugs being prescribed willy nilly to our children? Probably all of the above. That is not the fault of the gun, that is the fault of society running from core values and embracing diversity and cultural relativism.

 

I'm not going to win this argument, so maybe time to leave.  I have an offer down on a 2 acre parcel in New Zealand.  We'll see if they accept.  

 

Good luck down there!


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive" -- C.S. Lewis

 

If the only way to combat "global warming" was to lower taxes, we would never hear of the issue again. - Anonymous

 

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one" — Thomas Paine, 𝘊𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘚𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦 (1776)

 


#8 Who_Do_You_Trust

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 03:43 PM

Joe - Amazing.  Your position is that we should never pass a law that can't be enforced.  We have a law that makes it illegal to run a stop sign.  It can't be enforced 100% of the time.  In fact, it's not enforced 99% of the time.  So your logic says we should rescind that law.  Really? Your logic defies logic.  

 

The school was not a gun free zone.  There was an armed police officer on site.

 

A national data base has little effect on who gets a C/C permit.  Sheriffs have very wide discretion in who gets a C/C permit.  Sac county sheriff hand them out like candy at Halloween.  San Fran county sheriff does the opposite. 

 

"You cannot deny me my second amendment right without due process"   OK.  You make my point for me.  You believe your rights are more important than the lives of other peoples' children.  They aren't worth a little "inconvenience" on your part.  I guess the idea that they have a right to life doesn't register with you.  

 

Yeah - NZ looks better all the time.



#9 Who_Do_You_Trust

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Posted 15 February 2018 - 11:27 PM

Interestingly, the latest school shooting in Florida is highlighting a problem for the pro-gun community.  They have run out of excuses and diversions to avoid a debate on gun laws.  To wit:

 

1)       In the Las Vegas shooting, the pro-gun people said the problem was something attached to the gun (bumpstock).  In Florida, not so. 

2)      In the NewTown shooting, the pro-gun people said the problem was the shooter was mentally ill and no one knew.  In Florida, not so.  Everyone seemed to know.

3)      In the Virginia Tech shooting, the pro-gun crowd said the problem was the campus was a gun-free zone.  In Florida, not so (there was an armed police officer on campus).

4)      In some other shootings, the pro-gun people said the gun was purchased illegally.  In Florida, not so.

5)      In some other shootings, the pro-gun people said odd behavior of the shooter was never brought to the attention of authorities.  In Florida, not true.  The shooter even sent an IM to the FBI proclaiming he was a “professional school shooter”.  Directly to the FBI.

6)      The pro-gun people say this shooter shouldn’t have been allowed on campus.  He wasn’t.  He was expelled from school.  It didn’t help.

7)      The pro-gun people say the school should have been armed.  It was.  An armed cop was on site.  It was the same for Columbine – 2 armed cops on site.  It didn’t help.

8)      The pro-gun people say the school should have trained for such an incident.  The Florida school had done extensive training.  It didn’t help.

9)      Finally, everyone says the guy was a nut job, crazy,  volatile.  And yet, he was able to purchase an AR-15 legally.  How did that happen? 

 

The NRA and the pro-gun people say the best solution for all these firearm related incidents is more firearms.  Crazy on the face of it.

 

Finally, it’s clear the current laws and systems don’t work, so it’s time for some new laws and systems.



#10 The Average Joe

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 08:48 AM

Joe - Amazing.  Your position is that we should never pass a law that can't be enforced.  We have a law that makes it illegal to run a stop sign.  It can't be enforced 100% of the time.  In fact, it's not enforced 99% of the time.  So your logic says we should rescind that law.  Really? Your logic defies logic. 

 

That is not my position at all.  Try reading comprehension.

 

The school was not a gun free zone.  There was an armed police officer on site.

 

I stand corrected. One wonders where the heck this guy was, as gunshots can be heard for a mile. But then it does reinforce the idea that cops can't be everywhere. At some point you may have to defend yourself.

 

A national data base has little effect on who gets a C/C permit.  Sheriffs have very wide discretion in who gets a C/C permit.  Sac county sheriff hand them out like candy at Halloween.  San Fran county sheriff does the opposite. 

 

The only reason Sac currently does is that they lost a huge case at SCOTUS (probably before your time here) Previously, NO ONE got one. Also, the curent Sheriff ran on offering a permit to anyone legally entitled to one, and the voters voted him in. Again, let's take that discretion out of the hands of individuals, and have a common set of standards.

 

"You cannot deny me my second amendment right without due process"   OK.  You make my point for me.  You believe your rights are more important than the lives of other peoples' children.  They aren't worth a little "inconvenience" on your part.  I guess the idea that they have a right to life doesn't register with you.  

 

Again, a strawman. My 2nd Amendment rihts have nothing to do with kids being shot. That falls squarely on the shooter, and the FBI for failing to follow up on credible information that this guy was wacko. Funny, most who champion the "right to life" for the kids support the topic that must not be brought up here.

 

Yeah - NZ looks better all the time.

 

Bye.

 

Still waiting for your "common sense" laws that would have stopped this... I'll even offer one. Raise the age that you can purchase to 21.  Here is another: Anyone taking, or who has previously taken psychotropic drugs or with histories of malfeasance must be evaluated by a licensed psychologist before being able to purchase. Those might not have stopped him, but I would be in favor of such checks.


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive" -- C.S. Lewis

 

If the only way to combat "global warming" was to lower taxes, we would never hear of the issue again. - Anonymous

 

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one" — Thomas Paine, 𝘊𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘚𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦 (1776)

 


#11 The Average Joe

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 02:59 PM

Unlike the gun grabbers, I have offered potential solutions to the ACTUAL problems. Here are some more.  A "watch list" for all folks with a history of violence, regardless of conviction (hey, if we can do it for other reasons...)  Anyone trying to buy on the list would have to be cleared by mental health professionals. 

 

Another: All folks attempting to purchase a gun would have to have notarized statements from 3 different non related individuals that indicate the person should have guns

 

OR, the buyer's name would be listed in a public record 10 days before he received the weapon. Anyone who had a reason why that person should not be able to own a gun could file anonymously (although penalties for false reporting should be harsh) and then law enforcement would have 20 more days to vet the claims.

 

These would not be 100% effective, but they would eliminate a lot of the situations we see and really wouldn't require all that much more from the buyer than the hoops we already jump through


"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive" -- C.S. Lewis

 

If the only way to combat "global warming" was to lower taxes, we would never hear of the issue again. - Anonymous

 

"Society in every state is a blessing, but Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one" — Thomas Paine, 𝘊𝘰𝘮𝘮𝘰𝘯 𝘚𝘦𝘯𝘴𝘦 (1776)

 


#12 Chris

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 03:01 PM

One thing the liberals here and the MSM never acknowledge or report on is the number of times guns are used by law abiding citizens to protect life, limb, and property.   And if they did grab all of the guns as they wish (from law abiding citizens that is...) they will never report on, or acknowledge the number of people raped, robbed, and killed by a criminal with a gun.  It will be a lot greater than the number 17 every day in the USA but the left will feel "safer" and "accomplished" in their task and ignore the carnage of disarming law abiding citizens.  Chris

 

 

Guns prevent an estimated 2.5 million crimes a year..............

 

Somewhere, everyday in the USA, 2100+ people use a gun for self defense, to stop a crime or save the lives of themselves or their family.

“We believe that the American public deserve to understand that on the average, guns save 2,191 lives and are used to thwart crimes every day,” says Alan Gottlieb of the Second Amendment Foundation.
Most times you won’t see these tales on the news as it does not fit the main stream media’s story line of “Guns and Gun Owners are Bad“.


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#13 UncleVinnys

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 06:07 PM

My wife and I carry Glocks, as permitted by the Second Amendment. No CCW required. And who knows... maybe some day we will be in a position to use our training to SAVE lives. Bang. :)

 

2nd-amendment-gun-rights-control-demotiv

 

Gun ownership tied to three-fold increase in suicide risk

 

 

http://Gun ownership tied to three-fold increase in suicide risk

 

People may have heightened risks of dying from suicide and murder if they own or have access to a gun, according to a new analysis of previous research.

 

Researchers found people who lived in homes with firearms were between two and three times more likely to die from either cause, compared to those who lived in homes without guns.

 

 

Gee, maybe if we do nothing the problem will solve itself, ha, ha!

 

:summerteeth:       :shoot:


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#14 Chris

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Posted 16 February 2018 - 09:58 PM

Aces, is it not funny how Tio Vinny does not understand gun ownership....?   All his "facts" are from anti gun groups, powered by Soros et. al.   Yes, gun ownership does tie into end of life.   When you are at the end, and have a gun or two in your collection, you usually pick the gun and not the 8 months of BS life support, hospice, chemo, not so good stuff, and all the expense and pain.  Been through that more than once with my parents and close relatives and friends.   Usually you are a white male, taking yourself out with a gun.  This should make the left so happy, celebrated actually by them,  but for some reason they like to put our taking ourselves out under "gun violence".   Anyway, don't do it folks for any reason.  Your loved ones have to find you and it is not pretty.  Trust me, don't do it.  There are other, cleaner ways.  And back to school shootings.......   Gun free zones are kill zones.  Stop restricting good citizens from packing a gun to school or anywhere else.  We are your defenders, your first responders, whether you like it or not.  Chris


1A - 2A = -1A


#15 UncleVinnys

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Posted 17 February 2018 - 08:12 AM

"We carry Glocks."  "No CCW required,"                  :idea:   ??       

 

Sounds like an admission of a felony on social media.        :beehive:

You might want to delete that before the ATF discovers it!

You don't want them knocking on your door!

 

"Bang, Bang, Bang!"      


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