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#31 (MaxineR)

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 02:22 PM

Here's another possibility; upon further discussion and explanation, you discover that your initial biased knee-jerk reaction about what I believe is incorrect. When I explain, you think I've changed my mind. I haven't.


You haven't explained anything that I can see.

Steve, it would be out of character if you changed your mind. You just start soft peddling when facts are brought up you can’t defend. Saying you wish nobody had to pay taxes....THAT is not explaining anything!

You are an intelligent guy, but your loyalties are misplaced.

You still don’t understand that the poor are far worse off under the Obama administration and you still don’t get it that he wants to take as much of your money as he can, and give it carelessly to those who say they need it. Like the big banks!

His poor administrative skills have set this country back and the poor that really NEED the money are getting cut backs and excuses now.

What I find funny about people like you is they will say Obama has disappointed them, but they intend to vote for him again.

Some people just don’t learn that just because a person is like you in one way, doesn’t mean they give a crap about you.

#32 Steve Heard

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 02:45 PM

You haven't explained anything that I can see.

Steve, it would be out of character if you changed your mind. You just start soft peddling when facts are brought up you can’t defend. Saying you wish nobody had to pay taxes....THAT is not explaining anything!

You are an intelligent guy, but your loyalties are misplaced.

You still don’t understand that the poor are far worse off under the Obama administration and you still don’t get it that he wants to take as much of your money as he can, and give it carelessly to those who say they need it. Like the big banks!

His poor administrative skills have set this country back and the poor that really NEED the money are getting cut backs and excuses now.

What I find funny about people like you is they will say Obama has disappointed them, but they intend to vote for him again.

Some people just don’t learn that just because a person is like you in one way, doesn’t mean they give a crap about you.

Maxine, it is you who does not understand. Just because I agree with some of what Obama says and does, and some of the things our Democratic Party leaders say and do, does not mean I agree with everything they do.

I do indeed know and understand that the poor are indeed worse off today in many ways, though I can't blame Obama for making them poorer. I think social program spending is out of control and misplaced and the war on poverty has been about as successful as the war on drugs. There are far too many people relying on the government to pay for or subsidize their basics; housing and food, and unemployment is much higher in poor communities than the national averages.

That does not, however, make me ashamed of Obama, hate Obama or turn into a Republican. FYI, I have voted for Republican candidates on a couple of occasions because I thought they were better for the job (or the lesser of two evils). I vote with my concience, not my party. It just happens that much of the time the Democratic party candidates say the things that resonate with me. I understand, however, those who don't like what they hear. Luckily, they get to vote, too.

I think Obama takes far too much blame and is given far less credit than he deserves, and me revealing the truth about the capital gains tax doesn't turn into an 'oh, I was wrong', or 'oh, I understand'. Instead we get, 'Wrong ot not, Obama is ___________'

I totally disagree with the notion that he wants to take as much money as he can and give it carelessly to those who say they need it. If that were true, he'd be making a much larger money grab and singing a different tune.

He has given in to both sides on many issues, and guessed wrong on others.

I believe that he is an American who loves his country, and has an ideological vision that is different from most conservatives. He wants an America where we take care of each other, rather than 'every man for himself'. He believes that policies, practices and attitudes of the past has given rise to a division within the country along class, racial and economic lines, and he'd like narrow that divide and even the playing field.

Of course those at the bottom love that message and those at the top hate it, and I can understand why for each side. We can argue forever and a day about whether he's right or wrong.

I know he has made mistakes, but cannot and will not believe, however, that he is an evil, sneaky, racist, secret muslim socialist bent on the destruction of America.

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#33 (The Dude)

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 03:17 PM



#34 (MaxineR)

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 03:37 PM

Hey Dude, when you are voting for a Dream, you don’t need no stinking facts! :rolleyes:

#35 Steve Heard

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:07 PM

Hey Dude, when you are voting for a Dream, you don’t need no stinking facts! :rolleyes:

Nor do you need facts when you want to smear the president and your audience is made up of those who want to smear him as well.

That video and the email that has been circulating about it for a couple of years now, is filled with lies, I mean, inaccuracies.

Wild Bill plays into the fears of Obama haters that Obama was creating a fraudulent money grab for black folks.

Per factcheck.org: "Pigford v. Glickman was a class-action lawsuit brought in 1997. The suit, in which farmer Timothy Pigford sued then-Agriculture Secretary Dan Glickman, resulted in a court-approved agreement in 1999 to settle claims of discrimination that occurred between 1983 and 1997. But tens of thousands of black farmers missed the deadline for filing claims. Congress took testimony on complaints that inadequate notice and poor legal representation were to blame for the late claims and passed a law in 2008 that gave the late filers the right to have their cases heard on the merits. The 2008 law provided $100 million to settle the additional claims. Congress in 2010 appropriated another $1.15 billion. The second settlement came to be known as Pigford II."

"As CRS described in its report, numerous lawsuits filed after the Pigford I settlement were consolidated into a single case legally known as In re Black Farmers Discrimination Litigation. That case became known as Pigford II. Bills were submitted in both the House (in 2006 and 2007) and the Senate (in 2006 and 2007) to allow the late claims to be heard on the merits. Obama supported these bills, but he was hardly alone. And it wasn’t a partisan issue. Republican Sens. George Allen of Virginia and Charles Grassley of Iowa sponsored the 2006 and 2007 Senate bills, respectively. Obama was a cosponsor of Grassley’s bill in 2007, and he sponsored his own version of the bill that year.

The standalone House and Senate bills did not pass, but Congress included a provision in the 2008 farm appropriations bill that permitted the courts to hear late claims and budgeted $100 million to pay those found to have merit. Obama did not sponsor the farm bill. In fact, Obama — who was campaigning for president — didn’t vote on the Senate bill, the conference report or the veto override.

'Who needs facts?' Indeed.

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#36 (MaxineR)

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 04:37 PM

Yeah, that sounds all nice and fair, until you get to the part:

Congress took testimony on complaints that inadequate notice and poor legal representation were to blame for the late claims and passed a law in 2008 that gave the late filers the right to have their cases heard on the merits.

Most intelligent people know that white farmers have been victims of poor weather and “Attempted to farm” just as black farmers have. But, I don’t think the facts here are as pure and simple as you’d like us all to believe.

I’d be interested to know just how much money those black farmers loss in their “attempt to farm”. Did they have to show proof? Did they have books they kept and had to show them to Congress? Did they have any receipts for seeds, fertilizer or equipment?

I think the answer is, they had some nice black lawyers from Chicago backing up their claims and every time there was someone asking for proof, they got slapped with discrimination accusations.

Steve, people are getting educated on the Obama Chicago Play Book. It's pretty clear how Obama works, and for whom.

#37 Steve Heard

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Posted 03 August 2012 - 10:52 PM

Yeah, that sounds all nice and fair, until you get to the part:

Congress took testimony on complaints that inadequate notice and poor legal representation were to blame for the late claims and passed a law in 2008 that gave the late filers the right to have their cases heard on the merits.

Most intelligent people know that white farmers have been victims of poor weather and “Attempted to farm” just as black farmers have. But, I don’t think the facts here are as pure and simple as you’d like us all to believe.

I’d be interested to know just how much money those black farmers loss in their “attempt to farm”. Did they have to show proof? Did they have books they kept and had to show them to Congress? Did they have any receipts for seeds, fertilizer or equipment?

I think the answer is, they had some nice black lawyers from Chicago backing up their claims and every time there was someone asking for proof, they got slapped with discrimination accusations.

Steve, people are getting educated on the Obama Chicago Play Book. It's pretty clear how Obama works, and for whom.

OMG, as the young folks say.

This was not about poor weather. It was about the United States Department of Agriculture giving loans to white farmers while denying them to blacks.

I don't know or care the race of their attorneys, nor should it matter to anyone else.

Once again, however, you prove my point. A lie is posted about Obama, and instead of understanding and admitting it is a lie, you give a 'yeah but...' type of answer to further smear Obama.

Steve Heard

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#38 (MaxineR)

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 02:48 PM

So Sorry! It wasn't Obama, but his brother,Eric Holder! And what is with the "anonymous" crap???? This settlement was for a huge amount of tax payer money, at a time when we could least afford it.

In further reports, it was said that all a farmer had to say was that "He had attempted to farm". NOT that he had ever farmed a day in his life. Other reports claimed that some farmers could not read or write. Some were scamed because they were told they could get "Reparations" if they went to a church, on a certain day, and signed a paper that would be taken by two black women and filed on their behalf....giving up perosonal information that set them up for ID fraud. These frauds charged those people $200-$1000 dollars! The reports are to numerous to place here.

But, this makes the point that many blacks believe they were/are owed reparations by the government for ancestors who were slaves and are willing to pay to get them. Once word got around, by greedy lawyers looking to make big bucks on this settlement, everyone who was black took interest in getting free money! However, many blacks have come here to live long after the days of slavery, so should be able to prove any ancestor/slave related to them, or is that too much to ask? That maybe racist, huh?


Investigate 'Fraud-Plagued' $1.15-Billion Settlement With Black Farmers, Congressman Says

King has said the settlement with black farmers has morphed into a “modern-day slavery reparations programs.”
"How is it possible that (Agriculture) Secretary (Tom) Vilsack can identify 94,000 ‘victims’ of USDA discrimination against black farmers from a total universe of only 18,000 black farmers?" King asked on Friday."The original USDA estimate predicted that 3,000 of 18,000 black farmers would file a discrimination claim (under Pigford II). Now, Tom Vilsack and (Attorney General) Eric Holder have taken it upon themselves to negotiate a $1.15 billion agreement in Pigford II with the anonymous representatives of a universe of anonymous claimants that has swelled to 94,000. When added to the tab of the Pigford I settlement, this new $1.15 billion agreement brings the total taxpayer funded Pigford payout to $2.3 billion."King also sees Pigford II as a boon to lawyers:

"We do not have the list of all the attorneys who are collecting commissions as part of these settlements, but we do have video footage of one of them admitting that 10% of his clients are frauds. Despite this, Secretary Vilsack asserts there are only three cases of fraud in the 94,000 -- yet the USDA has not identified, let alone disciplined, a single employee who discriminated against even one of these 94,000.

"We’ve all heard the expression 'victimless crime', but now we have 'crimeless victims' –- individuals who, without basis for a grievance, claim to be victims even though no one can be identified as having discriminated against them.”

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/investigate-fraud-plagued-115-billion-settlement-black-farmers-congressman-says

Now, back on topic.....

#39 Steve Heard

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Posted 04 August 2012 - 04:08 PM

So Sorry! It wasn't Obama, but his brother,Eric Holder!
Now, back on topic.....


Apology accepted.

Yes, back on topic.

Is there a new 3.8% tax on the sale of homes which would result in a $15,200 tax on a $400,000 home? No there is not. It was a lie made up to scare voters.

As for the lie about Obama sponsoring the bill that allowed black farmers to sue over past discrimination, again, not true. Not only didn't he sponsor it, he didn't even vote on it.

Just more BS to scare voters.

Back on topic indeed.

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#40 (MaxineR)

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 12:46 AM

OMG, as the young folks say.

This was not about poor weather. It was about the United States Department of Agriculture giving loans to white farmers while denying them to blacks.

I don't know or care the race of their attorneys, nor should it matter to anyone else.

Once again, however, you prove my point. A lie is posted about Obama, and instead of understanding and admitting it is a lie, you give a 'yeah but...' type of answer to further smear Obama.




Ha....that wasn’t really an apology to you, as it may have sounded. I don’t happen to think this case was handled like it should have been AND I like Eric holder about as much as I like Obama.
I guess you didn’t read the article at all.

Truth be told, our president gets himself into more trouble than we ever could try and get him into. And when the time comes, when nobody can criticize the president, we won’t have a country any more.

The last time I checked, Mitt was being “smeared” pretty good too.

Geez, Steve... a person would think we were criticizing your uncle!

#41 EDF

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 06:55 AM

I believe that he is an American who loves his country, and has an ideological vision that is different from most conservatives. He wants an America where we take care of each other, rather than 'every man for himself'. He believes that policies, practices and attitudes of the past has given rise to a division within the country along class, racial and economic lines, and he'd like narrow that divide and even the playing field.

Of course those at the bottom love that message and those at the top hate it, and I can understand why for each side. We can argue forever and a day about whether he's right or wrong.

I know he has made mistakes, but cannot and will not believe, however, that he is an evil, sneaky, racist, secret muslim socialist bent on the destruction of America.


Well Steve... I don't believe he's one of us... he didn't grow up like any of us... he's an outlier...

He's hidden so much about himself... he's never explained how he got his SSN# from a state he never lived in... can't explain how he got to "Paki-stan" when no American was allowed to travel there.. never shown us his records at either Columbia or Harvard... the reason being we know he got in some kind of "foreign" student "thang"...

He's never had a real job... just a stinking "community agitator" type... all of his "brethren" are commie socialists.. and my friend... You are who you hang with...

He is the most evil, self serving elitist to ever hold office in the white house...

But hey... he's a nice guy...? and cares about the middle class...?

You keep drinking his bath water... and watch how this guy goes down...

#42 (The Dude)

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 07:05 AM

I can't wait to see these truths rebuffed. Good post mister EDF

#43 Steve Heard

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 08:43 AM

Ha....that wasn’t really an apology to you, as it may have sounded. I don’t happen to think this case was handled like it should have been AND I like Eric holder about as much as I like Obama.
I guess you didn’t read the article at all.

Truth be told, our president gets himself into more trouble than we ever could try and get him into. And when the time comes, when nobody can criticize the president, we won’t have a country any more.

The last time I checked, Mitt was being “smeared” pretty good too.

Geez, Steve... a person would think we were criticizing your uncle!

Of course I knew your apology wasn't sincere.

You are free to criticize the President for the things that he does, but it is silly to make stuff up then stand behind it.

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#44 EDF

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 09:40 AM

Of course I knew your apology wasn't sincere.

You are free to criticize the President for the things that he does, but it is silly to make stuff up then stand behind it.


Schteve...

That's what the Bamster does all the time... "make stuff up"... they lie about everything they don't agree with..

Look at what that crook Harry Reid had to say about "mr vanilla" Romney...

You are so in the tank for Obama it's almost pathetic Steve... just because he's black... that's the only stinking reason cause it can't be for the great job he's done... now if you'd finally cop to that... everyone here would probably have a lot more respect for your opinions.. because we could understand why you like him..

#45 Steve Heard

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Posted 05 August 2012 - 12:51 PM

Schteve...

That's what the Bamster does all the time... "make stuff up"... they lie about everything they don't agree with..

Look at what that crook Harry Reid had to say about "mr vanilla" Romney...

You are so in the tank for Obama it's almost pathetic Steve... just because he's black... that's the only stinking reason cause it can't be for the great job he's done... now if you'd finally cop to that... everyone here would probably have a lot more respect for your opinions.. because we could understand why you like him..

To point out those posts as lies does not make me 'in the tank' for Obama. I have nothing against Romney and don't think he'd make a bad president.

No, lack of hatred for Obama isn't 'just because he's black'. In fact, I never bring up his race, but you sure do. I also supported Clinton, and when we were under attack, rallied around President Bush. For me, it's not about race.

Steve Heard

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