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2 Dead in 3-Car Accident 1/7/2012


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#31 Harold

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:32 AM

Double the speed is four times the impact. Energy = 1/2 mass x velocity squared.

This is also relativistic, so you add the two speeds together (100mph and 50mph). A collision at 150mph would transfer 9 times as much energy as one at 50mph. They would come together at 220 feet per second. There is also a mass differential between the two vehicles which is significant.

None of this matters much. The only important thing is that two people are dead, and many more lives have been shattered. Tragedy.

What Joe says is essentially true. And I expect Joe already knows what I am about to explain, so is everyone ready for a small physics lesson.
If a car runs into a steel plated brick wall (an example of a perfectly immoveable object).
The energy at 100 mph is 4X of a 50 mph crash and 150 mph is 9X.
Now a car at 50 mph running into a parked car, the parked car gets moved and so the effective energy of the crash is reduced. two cars of equal mass running head-on into each other is in effect equivalent to one car running into an immoveable object. The energy of the collision per car is equal to the 50 mph into a brick wall. So one car doing 100 into another doing 50, is not the same as 150 into the brickwall, but it is still a lot worse than two cars doing 50 head-on. As you have one car with 4x the energy of the other, total energy is only 5X when you add the two together, and then if we assume each car absorbs 1/2 the energy, then it's only 2.5X the energy of a 50 mph into a brick wall for each car. This last assumption is not likely to be 100% correct, but it's close enough for this physics lesson. If we take the square root of 2.5, we get 1.58, and this times 50 = 79, so the end result is more like 79 mph into a brickwall per vehicle.

and as Joe said, this makes no difference to the dead victims or their loved ones, this was a tragic but preventable crash. I feel for the survivors and hope the guilty party gets his due justice.
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#32 traceyl

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:48 AM

Information on the victims...

http://sacramento.cb...ash-identified/

Very sad.

#33 ducky

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:55 AM

Thanks, Average Joe and Harold, for the physics lesson. I think sometimes when something terrible like this happens you wish it could have been avoided or wonder why the safety equipment in the car, such as air bags, couldn't have saved them. With forces of this magnitude, safety equipment only goes so far.

As you said, it makes no difference to the families who have lost loved ones to whom I extend my deepest sympathy.

#34 camay2327

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 10:21 AM

Anyone hear who the 3rd person was that was in the vehicle that the 2 men were killed in?

Again could be a person under 18 and they may not give out the name.

Our condolences.
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#35 Harold

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:13 AM

Thanks, Average Joe and Harold, for the physics lesson. I think sometimes when something terrible like this happens you wish it could have been avoided or wonder why the safety equipment in the car, such as air bags, couldn't have saved them. With forces of this magnitude, safety equipment only goes so far.

As you said, it makes no difference to the families who have lost loved ones to whom I extend my deepest sympathy.

I've thought about this some more, so I'm going to add Physics lesson #2. Remember where I said it's not 100% correct to split the energy in 1/2.
Car crashes are inelastic collisions, so energy goes into the destruction of the vehicles and unfortunately the occupants. pool balls on a table are an example of an elastic collision where all the energy before the collision is preserved and is in the balls after the collision. If two people hit poolballs at each other, one is going twice the speed of the other when they hit, the resulting bounce transfers the energy from one ball to the other and vice versa, so if Ball A is going faster when they hit, the result is ball B is now travelling faster going backwards, so the energy of the faster ball is transferred into the slower ball and vice versa. now the collision between two cars is much more complicated, but it does stand to reason, that the energy is not split equally so it is likely closer to the effect that the car going 50 sees the impact of 100 mph and the car going 100 sees the impact of going 50 mph. This helps explain why the speeding drunk survives while the slower innocent die.
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#36 Carl G

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:52 AM

... This helps explain why the speeding drunk survives while the slower innocent die.

A police office once told me a high person will likely be hurt less than a sober person because they are more relaxed.

#37 The Average Joe

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 12:23 PM

I do not wish to minimize the outcome of this horrible accident, nor do I wish to lose sight of the lives affected.

I would like to expand on Harold's thoughts though as he has done a done a pretty good job explaining the physics. I was just going for the abbreviated (and somewhat inaccurate) generality. But to add to his thoughts on energy transfer...

Mass is another huge factor. A typical small SUV is around 4500 pounds. The Saturn around 2500. Far more energy is transferred to the lighter vehicle. It's been quite a long time since I broke out the math skills (and certainly correct me if I'm wrong), but the SUV in this scenario would have approximately 25,000 kilojoules of energy, while the Saturn would only have 3,200. And of course much of the energy was absorbed in the crumple zones and destruction of the cars. In essence, this was not like a brick wall scenario, nor was it like two cars of equal mass hitting head on and coming to a stop.

E= .5 x 2000kg x 160kph squared vs. E = .5 x 1000kg x 80kph squared (have to convert to metric :P and I rounded numbers for ease)

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#38 (MaxineR)

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 02:36 PM

I've heard on this forum, some say they prefer a SUV to drive because of the safety factor when in an accident....this shows them to be correct. If the car that was hit by the drunken driver had been an SUV, would the odds be better for the victims to have survived?

I see a lot of vehicles on the road that are a lot bigger than mine and wonder if I am being foolish to drive a car, which will not fair too well in an accident. I also see a lot of young drivers in big trucks and wonder how they can afford them. (Not my business, I know, but we all know what SUV's and big trucks cost, plus that they use more gas and cost more to insure.

I'm sure the families of the victims have already spoken to attorneys and that some very big money will be asked for, as these two victims were facing many more years of life ahead of them, and probably had children that will be left without fathers.

Gee, it seems just the other day we were talking about another death involving drugs and/or driving.

#39 (MaxineR)

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 03:12 PM

Oh, by the way....how many years will this drunk driver get for this accident? I mean, really get? Anyone know? I've heard of a drunk driver who has killed a person in an driving accident gets only a few years, with good behavior.

#40 The Average Joe

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 03:27 PM

SUVs are more dangerous to roll over because of high center of gravity. However, their mass, and larger crumple zones are more safe in a "standard" accident. Side impact is probably a wash.

I have seen a large pick up run into a streetlamp at approximately 50+ mph. The streetlamp didn't move, and was embedded in the hood almost all the way to the cab. They both were able to walk out of the truck, but the passenger needed some cosmetic facial work from hitting the dash (I found that out from the investigator in charge of the case). No way they survive in a compact car. Pretty scary when it happens 30 feet from you.

I hope FHS and Vista do the drunk driving assemblies where they bring wrecks and actors in to recreate the accidents. Seeing is far more effective than just being told.

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#41 (MaxineR)

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 03:49 PM

I agree with you Joe...


Anyone raising children and going through the" terrible teens" with them, thinks they have pretty much finished worrying after they turn twenty one. But in my experience that is when the "Bar Scene" starts and can be far worse, in terms of probable death of one of their children, from drinking and driving. Or, them having an incident like this when lives are taken by their children's bad behavior.


My husband and I have been driving down that road, at that exact location, at least fifty times while living in Folsom. The scary part of this whole thing, is it could have been any of us in that car, at that time. Or one of our loved ones.....a son or daughter, or any other family member.


I've heard they are going to crack down on drunk drivers, but doubt if it will change anything. Some on this forum have thought of going to bars and watching the drunks come out and get into their cars to drive away, and then calling the cops on them. That was really frowned upon by other posters, as those posters said it none of their business. I bet the young man sitting in jail now wished somebody, anybody, would have stopped him before he took two lives.


I wonder where he was before the accident? A bar? Somebodie's house? Or his own home? If he was at someone's house having drinks or using drugs, would they be responsible for allowing him to drive off in that condition?

Remember why we lost Chevy's here in Folsom? Yep...they were serving alcohol to minors.
You know that is probably still happening in Old Folsom on Saturday night.

#42 Carl G

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 04:14 PM

...
I've heard they are going to crack down on drunk drivers, but doubt if it will change anything.
...

I personally believe the should be lowered to 0.0. If you drink, don't drive, period. That would eliminate any question about someone driving "buzzed."

#43 Fowler

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 05:59 PM

Thanks for all the details on the actual physics of a car crash. Very interesting stuff. I wasn't actually commenting on the mathmatic details, but was just stating what I had heard on a different news station about how it could feel if both cars were doing 50mph in opposite directions. I had not heard the report that he was actually doing 100mph. I do still wonder how intoxicated he must have been to be able to even reach 100mph before losing control. I've seen drunk people asleep in intersections or never able to leave a parking lot, so he must have been in some control of himself right? Either way, its a tradgedy that didn't have to happen and it always seems that the innocent people are the ones to lose their lives.

#44 doj_gal

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 06:09 PM

Oh, by the way....how many years will this drunk driver get for this accident? I mean, really get? Anyone know? I've heard of a drunk driver who has killed a person in an driving accident gets only a few years, with good behavior.


I believe our state has mandated a sentence for any vehicular mansl that resulted from DUI. It can result in a 15 year sentence. Hopefully he will get 15 for each individual and more time for the speeding. I do not think that he should see the outside of a jail cell for the rest of his lifetime.

#45 olivia

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 06:25 PM

KOVR reported tonight that Michael Sharp was driving 100 mph.

This makes me SO ANGRY! What a complete asshat!!!!! Lock the moron up and throw away the key. A completely selfish idiot. I DON"T CARE IF HE RUINS HIS LIFE. He has no right to destroy others. Drinking (or any other drugs ) and driving is #$@>>%&#$%!!!!!!! :cuss3: :cuss3: :cuss3: :cuss3: :cuss3: :cuss3:




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