33 replies to this topic

[randb]

That's like saying if my neighbor pipes his cable into my cable, and I turn on my TV, that it's a crime. If an unencrypted network overlaps on my property it shouldn't be a crime to use it, if my neighbor puts his pool in my yard, is it illegal to use it?

It's not illegal to access radio freq in the public airwaves; however once you "use" your neighbor’s internet you are accessing his physical hardware on his property without his permission. You are also accessing the provider’s equipment without their permission. It is theft of services and it is illegal.

[DavidH]

It's awfully tempting, however, when you're at Starbucks and have a choice of four free APs and the paid TrueMobile connection at 'bucks. Even more tempting when you realize those businesses (not residences) are closed and their bandwidth is just idling.

I'm not defending the practice; just saying it's tempting.

[john]

what the heck are you guys talking about? I have no clue what this conversation even MEANS!

[TheCourtJester]

Well uberman...if you were paying for it and he was mooching, would you paticularly LIKE it? Especially if his mooching meant you lost half your channels (or as the case is with wardriving, half the bandwidth)?

Even if it's NOT illegal, ever heard of the phrase "Mind your own d*mn business?" It's akin to walking from house to house peeking in the windows to see what kind of computer they have. Who CARES if they have a crappy computer or an improperly secured connection? If you REALLY care that much, start a business offering to set up the networks/computers properly.

And if you get the "I don't want to do that, that's what Geek Squad is for" attitude, then it pretty much proves my point...none of your d*mn business.

[CostcoLover]

Uber,

Randb is right. If you use it, it's theft, it's not like public radio where you turn it on and its free. Someone is paying, and if that someone is not you, and you're using the connection it's theft.

Go ahead, get your neighbor to pipe in his cable to your cable and don't pay, and then lets call the cable company. Lets see if a judge will buy your "Hey, it's not my fault my neighbor did it". Sorry bud, doesn't fly.

I know it's difficult for the younger generation to understand when you grew up in a world of "free" music - see how free that was....

I was expecting you to use the example of satellite instead of cable....

[DavidH]

...If you use it, it's theft, it's not like public radio where you turn it on and its free.  Someone is paying, and if that someone is not you, and you're using the connection it's theft.

Go ahead, get your neighbor to pipe in his cable to your cable and don't pay, and then lets call the cable company. Lets see if a judge will buy your "Hey, it's not my fault my neighbor did it".  Sorry bud, doesn't fly.

Public radio is an interesting analogy. Public radio and television is primarily member-supported, yet the public at-large gets the benefit of those of us who pay membership fees.

Secondly, with many communities setting up public domain hotspots (Sacramento being one, for instance, with a hotspot between the capitol and river, J to N streets), how much care are users to take to prevent their PCs from connecting to an unsecured AP? I'm not talking about wardrivers, just "normal" folks who fire up their laptops, PDAs, or tablets and connect automatically. Is their ignorance of connecting a greater offense than the AP-owner who doesn't take basic precautions?

[Steve Heard]

I am no techie, but I think you are saying that people can use other folks' wireless access to the internet, without them knowing about it, right?

I've never had a wireless account, and don't know much about it. I do know that when my cousin was out here from Louisiana recently, my cable internet went down.

His wife had brought her laptop with her (going for her master's), and had to take some sort of test online.

She said, "Hey! I've got a signal!", and was able to do her work.

So, I ask, is that what we're talking about? Was that illegal? I thought it was a signal from a tower or satellite or something.

[Merlin]

Steve, to answer your question, yeah, that was illegal.

[uberman]

And if you get the "I don't want to do that, that's what Geek Squad is for" attitude, then it pretty much proves my point...none of your d*mn business.

Dude, I have no idea what you're trying to prove...

[randb]

Public radio is an interesting analogy.  Public radio and television is primarily member-supported, yet the public at-large gets the benefit of those of us who pay membership fees.

Secondly, with many communities setting up public domain hotspots (Sacramento being one, for instance, with a hotspot between the capitol and river, J to N streets), how much care are users to take to prevent their PCs from connecting to an unsecured AP?  I'm not talking about wardrivers, just "normal" folks who fire up their laptops, PDAs, or tablets and connect automatically.  Is their ignorance of connecting a greater offense than the AP-owner who doesn't take basic precautions?

Accidental connection would be tough to prosecute as it would be difficult to prove criminal intent.

[Solartide]

funny thing happened yesterday, i "accidentaly" executed a netsend command and i think all my neighbors got a message on their computers saying "hello all"

[Merlin]

rofl, nice. i did that once at school, and had that happend every computer in the schools network. it was hilarious.

[CostcoLover]

We have a few lawyers on these boards... I can't remember the legal phrase - my one law class was many moons ago....

Something about ignorance of the law doesn't get you off the hook....

[DalOwnerX3]

Maybe a better analogy would be to use the faucet in somebody's front yard. You didn't enter the house and it's not costing the people inside any extra money (until the water meters kick in, but that's a different thread). Is it illegal to use a neighbor's hose without permission?

[DavidH]

Or another analogy might be the nudists within their own home but the blinds are left open. Those from the outside can see you, even if they didn't intent to (which might make them voyeurs). Is it "indecent exposure" if you're unwittingly seen by passers-by.

In the case, closing the blinds would be analogous to securing your wireless access point. Exposing oneself within their home is to advertising your SSID as voyeurism is to wardriving.