34 replies to this topic

[James Neal]

Greetings,

 

I signed up here after finding your forum where Folsom residents can discuss topics concerning them.

 

You may be aware of many more jets roaring directly above the city of Folsom recently. As I eventually found out, that is because of a new plan by the FAA's NexGen plan to consolidate jet traffic into fewer corridors.
https://www.faa.gov/nextgen/

One of those new corridors is directly over Folsom.

 

I originally emailed Sacamento Int'l Airport with my complaint on March 11. Bree Taylor, Noise & Sustainability Programs Coordinator for SMF [taylorbr@saccounty.net] replied with the information about the new NexRad flightpaths. The upshot is Instead of multiple corridors for eastbound departures spread out among the entire region as it was in the past, there are now essentially only two. She said the FAA is responsible for what paths the flights take and not SMF so I should complain to the FAA, which I did. After emailing them again, on March 25, I finally received a response saying "Sorry for the delay in this response. We are coordinating with the air traffic specialists in your area to provide you with a response."

 

I also emailed Mayor Morin and the board members with this information on April 3 but have received no response yet.

 

One of those paths is directly over Folsom and El Dorado Hills and is responsible for over half of the eastbound traffic from my calculations using WebTrak.
http://webtrak5.bksv.com/smf3

As an example use webtrak to watch the traffic starting at 6am on Thursday April, 2 2015 to clearly see the two new flight paths.

 

I have not received an official response from the FAA's ombudsman yet. If you feel impacted and wish to complain their email is:

http://www.faa.gov/a...e_issues/noise/

 

Before and after pictures are included. The first pic is flights between May 1 & July 1, 2014. The second one is only the morning traffic on March 3 2015 between 5:50am & 8am. You can clearly see how all the traffic has been condensed to only two flight paths now.

 

I hope you all find this information helpful in understanding what is now occurring.

 

James Neal

 

 

 

 

Attached Files

•  image009.jpg   89.16K   28 downloads
•  Flights over house March 2015b.jpg   97.73K   30 downloads

[Robert Gary]

By the time departures get over Folsom they're over 10,000 feet. I'm not sure the human ear is capable of detecting the noise from that distance. Maybe a sensitive pet (dog) could??  I did send the FAA an email letting them know everything seems fine so far.

 

I suspect you may be hearing arrivals into Mather. 

 

Cheers.

-Robert

[James Neal]

Robert:

Definitely not arrivals/departures from Mather. Look up and notice they are going due east just as the flight paths indicate. This has already been verified by Bree Taylor of SMF. Use the webtrak site to see for yourself their exact path.

I'm also not a dog. My hearing isn't even that good compared to my youth. The jets literally wake me and my wife up in the morning as they roar directly overhead. These are commercial flights from Sac Metro which have been funneled into an new path over Folsom.

Jets have been using whats called "reduced-power liftoff" during takeoff for about 20 years now while they're over Sacramento or any large city. After they get to about 8,000 feet they pull the throttle back to normal which I believe is a good part of why they are much louder here at 10,000 feet as opposed to 5,000. I used to live in the Tahoe Park neighborhood closer to the city in the 80's where they were much lower but the noise was about the same as out here 35 miles from the airport.

I also find it curious that you decided to try to quash my query to the FAA by sending them an email in opposition. Wouldn't you also benefit from reduced jet traffic? How many other Federal or State agencies have you contacted to let them know "everything is fine so far"?

Edited by James Neal, 10 April 2015 - 11:42 AM.

[Robert Gary]

A medium sized airliner (basically what comes out of SMF, we don't have 747's, A380's,etc) produces about 42dBA at 10,000 feet if you were standing outside. That's what the EPA says is equivalent to the hum of your refrigerator. Cars driving by your house (80dBA) or a lawnmower (90dBA)  is much louder. 

 

I've lived in Folsom a long time and just grown weary of the emotional motivations of noise complaints. People complaining that the landing gear is down, claiming they can read the writing on the bottom of the jets, etc. 

 

 

ref:http://www.nats.aero...aircraft-noise/

http://www.hearingai...-common-sounds/

 

-Robert

[Rich_T]

"The emotional motivations of noise complaints" derive from being woken up early.   You grow weary of the complaints, while others grow weary of the noise.  The problem is that some people live more directly under the flight path than others.  As a result, some residents have no complaint, and so it can be tempting to make light of those who do, or to dismiss their problem (either by saying there isn't a problem, or by saying it's their own fault for moving there).

 

As for the SMF situation, I can't say I've noticed anything myself.

[folsom500]

Robert:

Definitely not arrivals/departures from Mather. Look up and notice they are going due east just as the flight paths indicate. This has already been verified by Bree Taylor of SMF. Use the webtrak site to see for yourself their exact path.

I'm also not a dog. My hearing isn't even that good compared to my youth. The jets literally wake me and my wife up in the morning as they roar directly overhead. These are commercial flights from Sac Metro which have been funneled into an new path over Folsom.

Jets have been using whats called "reduced-power liftoff" during takeoff for about 20 years now while they're over Sacramento or any large city. After they get to about 8,000 feet they pull the throttle back to normal which I believe is a good part of why they are much louder here at 10,000 feet as opposed to 5,000. I used to live in the Tahoe Park neighborhood closer to the city in the 80's where they were much lower but the noise was about the same as out here 35 miles from the airport.

I also find it curious that you decided to try to quash my query to the FAA by sending them an email in opposition. Wouldn't you also benefit from reduced jet traffic? How many other Federal or State agencies have you contacted to let them know "everything is fine so far"?

I have seen eastbound flights from SMF ever since I have lived in Natomas Station (going on 13 years now ) and although I can hear them when I am outside, the sound is very minimal and cannot be heard in the house even with the windows or sliding door open. Just to be clear the jets fly over at less than a few degrees from overhead. They are surely not something that could wake up anyone.

I too would say- Everything is fine...

[James Neal]

Robert:

 

I guess I just don't understand the motivation of a long-time resident, who if not bothered himself, would want to deprive those who are impacted their redress.

 

Are you saying that the FAA's determination, without public comment or involvement, that Folsom airspace is (since January) the best place to condense half of all of the eastbound flights is ok with you? Do you know that this will go on into perpetuity? Those 747s will eventually show up.

 

Why did they choose Folsom? For that matter, why are they condensing all eastbound traffic to just two lanes? Only the FAA knows, but they won't answer.

[Robert Gary]

Robert:

 

I guess I just don't understand the motivation of a long-time resident, who if not bothered himself, would want to deprive those who are impacted their redress.

 

Are you saying that the FAA's determination, without public comment or involvement, that Folsom airspace is (since January) the best place to condense half of all of the eastbound flights is ok with you? Do you know that this will go on into perpetuity? Those 747s will eventually show up.

 

Why did they choose Folsom? For that matter, why are they condensing all eastbound traffic to just two lanes? Only the FAA knows, but they won't answer.

 

Because its not very useful or scientific feedback if they only hear a minor opinion. SMF has been there since the 1960's and has yet to get 747's. I believe that would require a major update to the runways, something that would probably take 5-10 years of impact reports, etc. So I'm not too worried about the existing noise and not concerned we'll have 500 passenger planes bound for Tokyo or Australia out of SMF in the near term.

 

I'd prefer to save the political capital in case the arrivals for Mather change, etc.

 

-Robert

[nomad]

Great, there goes the neighborhood again!

 

BTW I was able to read the serial # on the gear of that UPS plane that buzzed my house last night!

[Chad Vander Veen]

What would be really helpful for those of us skeptical of the severity of the noise issues airplanes are alleged to cause is a decent video. I've lived in Folsom for almost 13 years and have never once been bothered by airplane noise - and this is coming from a person who can't sleep if I can hear my laptop's internal fan operating in the next room.

[Howdy]

 

Because its not very useful or scientific feedback if they only hear a minor opinion. SMF has been there since the 1960's and has yet to get 747's. I believe that would require a major update to the runways, something that would probably take 5-10 years of impact reports, etc. So I'm not too worried about the existing noise and not concerned we'll have 500 passenger planes bound for Tokyo or Australia out of SMF in the near term.

 

I'd prefer to save the political capital in case the arrivals for Mather change, etc.

 

-Robert

They have had 747's out there. The post office was getting them in a couple years ago. 

[Robert Gary]

They have had 747's out there. The post office was getting them in a couple years ago. 

I don't think the post office owns aircraft. They contract. UPS does have aircraft including 747s but those are out of Mather and take a different flight path.

-Robert

[Howdy]

I don't think the post office owns aircraft. They contract. UPS does have aircraft including 747s but those are out of Mather and take a different flight path.

-Robert

They don't have aircraft. FedEx moves much of their freight. UPS doesn't bring 47's into Mather. There is not that much volume here in the Sac market. 

[bordercolliefan]

James, where in Folsom do you live?

I live in Natoma Station, and I am more often bothered by loud helicopters than by airplane noise.

[JohhnyCash]

I run a wholesale business in Rancho Cordova.

We ship via UPS daily.

Our packages get picked up by the truck, taken over to Mather and get loaded on a UPS cargo plane.

Often I get home (in Folsom) in the evening in time to pour a beer, sit on the back patio, kick my feet up and watch the UPS cargo plane QUIETLY slip through the atmosphere heading eastward.

Not a hint of jet noise at our house in the Parkway.