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#16 25or6to4

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 07:13 PM

I'm sure that can be accommodated. The person training the service dog could sit at a distance from the allergy-sufferer.

Would you expect a disabled person who depends on a guide dog to be denied a job at your company??

Allergy to dogs is not all that common-- allergy to cats is much more common. I think it would be sad to ban all people who depend on, or are training, guide dogs to accommodate the relatively small number of people who are allergic or who just don't like dogs.

Should I have to quit my job for my health so a disabled person that uses a guide dog can work in my facility? That seems to be the position you are taking.

Central air systems circulate air everywhere, I don't care where the dog is located, it is an adverse impact to my ability to breathe.

Does the guide dog help the person type into their computer? Does the guide dog help the person fill out forms? Does the guide dog help the person perform whatever mental labor is required for the job? If not, then the guide dog has no place in the workforce, it can be secured in a kennel outside the work area, so the employee can commute to and from work with assistance of their guide dog as they need. Much the same as smokers can smoke outside, and commuters can park their cars outside, but they can't drive or ride their cars or motorcycles into the building or smoke inside the building.
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#17 bordercolliefan

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 08:09 PM

Should I have to quit my job for my health so a disabled person that uses a guide dog can work in my facility? That seems to be the position you are taking.

Central air systems circulate air everywhere, I don't care where the dog is located, it is an adverse impact to my ability to breathe.

Does the guide dog help the person type into their computer? Does the guide dog help the person fill out forms? Does the guide dog help the person perform whatever mental labor is required for the job? If not, then the guide dog has no place in the workforce, it can be secured in a kennel outside the work area, so the employee can commute to and from work with assistance of their guide dog as they need. Much the same as smokers can smoke outside, and commuters can park their cars outside, but they can't drive or ride their cars or motorcycles into the building or smoke inside the building.


Wow, this is really an incredible attitude.

Since central air systems circulate air "everywhere," you want service dog dependent people banned from your company for your comfort-- just in case a whiff of "animal dander" were to blow in your vicinity.

Fortunately, our elected officials don't agree with your intolerant attitude. It is a violation of the ADA to refuse to hire someone just because they use a service dog.

Your idea of "parking" the dog outside just shows your ignorance of how service dogs are used. Many of them are trained to detect signs of an imminent seizure (like epilepsy) or similar medical problems; thus, they need to be beside their person at all times. And what if a blind person needs to go down the hall to the bathroom, or to the copy room, during the work day? Your idea is that they should stumble around blindly (no pun intended) because their guide dog is parked outside?

I bet most employers would rather hire a disabled worker who uses a guide dog than a hyper-sensitive complainer who wants guide-dog dependent people banned from his company because a smidge of animal dander might come through the HVAC.

#18 Deb aka Resume Lady

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 08:11 PM

Should I have to quit my job for my health so a disabled person that uses a guide dog can work in my facility? That seems to be the position you are taking.

Central air systems circulate air everywhere, I don't care where the dog is located, it is an adverse impact to my ability to breathe.

Does the guide dog help the person type into their computer? Does the guide dog help the person fill out forms? Does the guide dog help the person perform whatever mental labor is required for the job? If not, then the guide dog has no place in the workforce, it can be secured in a kennel outside the work area, so the employee can commute to and from work with assistance of their guide dog as they need. Much the same as smokers can smoke outside, and commuters can park their cars outside, but they can't drive or ride their cars or motorcycles into the building or smoke inside the building.


Firstly, not all service dogs are guide dogs, but guide dogs are needed throughout the day so the person can maneuver around the workplace (who sits at a desk all day long?), to guide the person to the restroom, and to guide the person out of the building in the event of an emergency. Some service dogs assist people with physical limitations. Some can smell chemical changes in a person who has seizure disorder right before a seizure and can alert the person to sit or otherwise get into a safe position.

Again, I doubt dander can build to a sufficient level in a workplace to cause problems, but there are products that reduce dander in dogs and the allergic person could ask the employee with the service dog to use those products on the dog.

These situations are successfully navigated and accommodated in places of employment all the time.
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#19 cw68

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:43 PM

My reply is a little different. One of my best friend's has a service dog that detects seizures. Lu is almost invisable in public, unlike most dogs. She has been taught to not be a distraction. She is much less of a distraction at work than ring tones and perfumes and MyFolsom but provides a valuable service.

All this said, I'm a dog person. My last job was dog-friendly and a few of us brought our dogs into the office. Yes, they were distracting sometimes but they also provided a mental break, lots of smiles, and definitely increased morale. It worked in our small business though it wouldn't work everywhere. I think we all could do a little more work towards looking at things on a case-by-case basis and weighing things in the big picture instead of just categorically declaring "yay" or "nay" all the time.

Ps - I really don't think we should be judging anyone based on the number of posts they've made (and not just because I have a ton of them). The purpose of John's site is for people to post and interact with each other.

Can't we all just get along? (RIP Rodney cuz you sure didn't rest here while living!)

#20 supermom

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 11:55 PM

My reply is a little different. One of my best friend's has a service dog that detects seizures. Lu is almost invisable in public, unlike most dogs. She has been taught to not be a distraction. She is much less of a distraction at work than ring tones and perfumes and MyFolsom but provides a valuable service.

All this said, I'm a dog person. My last job was dog-friendly and a few of us brought our dogs into the office. Yes, they were distracting sometimes but they also provided a mental break, lots of smiles, and definitely increased morale. It worked in our small business though it wouldn't work everywhere. I think we all could do a little more work towards looking at things on a case-by-case basis and weighing things in the big picture instead of just categorically declaring "yay" or "nay" all the time.

Ps - I really don't think we should be judging anyone based on the number of posts they've made (and not just because I have a ton of them). The purpose of John's site is for people to post and interact with each other.

Can't we all just get along? (RIP Rodney cuz you sure didn't rest here while living!)

I love your post, but I would like t point out that allergies are not the only reason some people do not want a dog at work; because of health reasons.

One is asthma. Severe asthma sufferers can not have dogs. They cant even have gold fish. Too much stuff in the air. They can't have carpet. They can't have fans in the house.
I have heard of cases where people have challenged ADA rules on the grounds of disability hiring rights versus health challenges of current employess. The current employee wins out. Because the employer is obligated to give reasonable accomodations to the person already under contract; they must look for another job candidate.

The other issue is psychiatric. There are some people out there who are truly afraid of dogs.

On a personal level; I love dogs but I do get allergies from them in enclosed spaces. I prefer to not go to work and start sneezong uncontrollably and slobber great balls of slime all over myself. Usually I can handle it with allergy pills; but I am sort of a naturalist. I prefer to not take medication just to deal with someone elses pet.

Other pet peeves of mine is people taking their lap dogs into the grocery store. They are not service dogs. They are not tagged. I find it highly offensive.

And I like dogs. I like petting dogs. I like loving dogs. I liked owning a dog .

But i just do not understand people who insist that their dog come with them to the store, then use the excuse that it is too cold/hot to stay in the car. Thenjjust keep the dog at Home! Something I found really offensive was a job where my boss brought his dog in to work on a daily basis. That effing dog liked me and made me trip while I worked (in a hazardous place with machiney and stuff) and the dog would behave poorly, sniff inapprpriately, jump up on you, and lay on your feet.

And you know--I didn't like it. I didn't like it at all. And that certainly wasn't disclosed during the hiring process.

So I understand people not wanting dogs around them at work.

Yeah, I love dogs. Yeah I have owned many over the years.
But I don't like someone elses dog being thrust into my presence. It is a distraction.

On a sidenote: I have worked in a hospital where patients had companion or service dogs and was very impressed with how much they add value to a person's life (well, duh--they have always made me happy!)





#21 cw68

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 12:03 AM

I love your post, but I would like t point out that allergies are not the only reason some people do not want a dog at work; because of health reasons.

One is asthma. Severe asthma sufferers can not have dogs. They cant even have gold fish. Too much stuff in the air. They can't have carpet. They can't have fans in the house.
I have heard of cases where people have challenged ADA rules on the grounds of disability hiring rights versus health challenges of current employess. The current employee wins out. Because the employer is obligated to give reasonable accomodations to the person already under contract; they must look for another job candidate.

The other issue is psychiatric. There are some people out there who are truly afraid of dogs.

On a personal level; I love dogs but I do get allergies from them in enclosed spaces. I prefer to not go to work and start sneezong uncontrollably and slobber great balls of slime all over myself. Usually I can handle it with allergy pills; but I am sort of a naturalist. I prefer to not take medication just to deal with someone elses pet.

Other pet peeves of mine is people taking their lap dogs into the grocery store. They are not service dogs. They are not tagged. I find it highly offensive.

And I like dogs. I like petting dogs. I like loving dogs. I liked owning a dog .

But i just do not understand people who insist that their dog come with them to the store, then use the excuse that it is too cold/hot to stay in the car. Thenjjust keep the dog at Home! Something I found really offensive was a job where my boss brought his dog in to work on a daily basis. That effing dog liked me and made me trip while I worked (in a hazardous place with machiney and stuff) and the dog would behave poorly, sniff inapprpriately, jump up on you, and lay on your feet.

And you know--I didn't like it. I didn't like it at all. And that certainly wasn't disclosed during the hiring process.

So I understand people not wanting dogs around them at work.

Yeah, I love dogs. Yeah I have owned many over the years.
But I don't like someone elses dog being thrust into my presence. It is a distraction.

On a sidenote: I have worked in a hospital where patients had companion or service dogs and was very impressed with how much they add value to a person's life (well, duh--they have always made me happy!)

I get it. I have asthma. I suffer from pet-induced allergies (and from grasses and cardboard).

I'm not saying that every workspace should be pet-friendly. I'm just saying we all should not make blanket decisions all of the time but consider more things on a case-by-case basis - not just things pet-related.

#22 bordercolliefan

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 07:01 AM

I agree that whether work places should be "pet friendly" is case by case.

But when it comes to people with actual disabilities, the law requires that employers make reasonable accommodation. Cases have found that allowing the person to bring their service dog is a reasonable accommodation.

In order to disallow the service dog, the employer would have to show that having the dog poses an undue burden. Now, I can see that if your business was cat-grooming, you might be able to show that having a service dog on the premises poses an undue burden, if it turns all your cat customers into nervous wrecks! But, the mere fact that someone claims to have an allergy to dog dander -- where the employer can put some distance between that person and the service dog -- is not going to show an undue burden, especially if all you have is the person speculating that little bits of dog dander might come through the HVAC.

*Maybe* if you have a tiny workspace (like a small law office), and the existing employee has a severe allergy documented by a doctor's note, and there is no way to separate the service dog from the allergic employee... maybe then you could get around the law.

#23 Deb aka Resume Lady

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:06 AM

*Maybe* if you have a tiny workspace (like a small law office), and the existing employee has a severe allergy documented by a doctor's note, and there is no way to separate the service dog from the allergic employee... maybe then you could get around the law.


It wouldn't actually be "getting around the law." It would be accommodating an already employed worker whose allergies/asthma rise to the level of being disabling with a service animal onsite.

These situations have to be handled on a case by case basis and should be approached with the intention of trying to find a solution instead of assuming there isn't one. If both parties cannot be accommodated I believe the favor would go to the already employed worker.

Back to the original OP's questions: every state has its own laws regarding service-dogs-in-training and if I am remembering correctly the State of California states that a trainer can bring a dog-in-training anywhere a service dog would be allowed. I don't have time to go look for that, but maybe someone else can find it.
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#24 bordercolliefan

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:20 AM

It wouldn't actually be "getting around the law." It would be accommodating an already employed worker whose allergies/asthma rise to the level of being disabling with a service animal onsite.


You are right. "Getting around the law" was poor phrasing.

I was just making the point that the legal standard to bar service dogs would be quite high. Inconvenience or the fact that someone dislikes dogs won't cut it -- it would have to be a serious documented allergy where there was no way to mitigate the situation.

#25 mac_convert

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:59 PM

I just learned about this today while working at church. During Breakaway the church campus is closed and has many restrictions and one of them is dogs, other than service ones. This poor lady got stopped by four different security people today because she had a dog on campus we didn't perceive to be a service dog. This dog can sense a seizure coming and can alert the handler to take medication or other precautions. She had proper identification for the the dog, but since it wasn't one of the "normal" breeds we associate with service dogs we felt the need to stop her.

My reply is a little different. One of my best friend's has a service dog that detects seizures. Lu is almost invisable in public, unlike most dogs. She has been taught to not be a distraction. She is much less of a distraction at work than ring tones and perfumes and MyFolsom but provides a valuable service.

All this said, I'm a dog person. My last job was dog-friendly and a few of us brought our dogs into the office. Yes, they were distracting sometimes but they also provided a mental break, lots of smiles, and definitely increased morale. It worked in our small business though it wouldn't work everywhere. I think we all could do a little more work towards looking at things on a case-by-case basis and weighing things in the big picture instead of just categorically declaring "yay" or "nay" all the time.

Ps - I really don't think we should be judging anyone based on the number of posts they've made (and not just because I have a ton of them). The purpose of John's site is for people to post and interact with each other.

Can't we all just get along? (RIP Rodney cuz you sure didn't rest here while living!)



#26 cw68

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:46 PM

I just learned about this today while working at church. During Breakaway the church campus is closed and has many restrictions and one of them is dogs, other than service ones. This poor lady got stopped by four different security people today because she had a dog on campus we didn't perceive to be a service dog. This dog can sense a seizure coming and can alert the handler to take medication or other precautions. She had proper identification for the the dog, but since it wasn't one of the "normal" breeds we associate with service dogs we felt the need to stop her.

Lu is a sweet, big ole fat black lab with hip problems. She doesn't look like a service dog either!

#27 supermom

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 03:49 PM

Most dogs that have been certified by areputable trainers as a service dog are issued a vest or a tag.

When they come to the hospital I have taken them off of their masters bed, and taken them outside for a walk when the owner had to get specialized care in certain areas (like a CT scan.).


Ps.. A lot of homeless walk into stores with their dogs and feed them from the shelves when the employees aren't looking. When approached they claim the dogs are service dogs. So many companies are afraid of being sued that they just don't get educated on what constitutes a service dog by law.

#28 25or6to4

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 05:45 PM

*Maybe* if you have a tiny workspace (like a small law office), and the existing employee has a severe allergy documented by a doctor's note, and there is no way to separate the service dog from the allergic employee... maybe then you could get around the law.

No "Maybe" about it, this is my scenario. Small business, severe asthma, allergic to all animal danders. The idea that a law states we have to hire a person with a service dog is very unfair IMO. Why should I have to hire an attorney to protect my employment presenting an argument as to why the business should be able to ignore the law. The attorney fees alone would be a burden for myself and the small business. One lawsuit by a disabled person claiming discrimination in violation of this law could destroy the business. Is this fair?

Ask the "Squeeze Inn" what they think of people who sue based on the ADA? Now their name no longer applies to their establishment, but at least they survived the lawsuit. I know there are businesses that do not.
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#29 Deb aka Resume Lady

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 05:55 PM

No "Maybe" about it, this is my scenario. Small business, severe asthma, allergic to all animal danders. The idea that a law states we have to hire a person with a service dog is very unfair IMO. Why should I have to hire an attorney to protect my employment presenting an argument as to why the business should be able to ignore the law. The attorney fees alone would be a burden for myself and the small business. One lawsuit by a disabled person claiming discrimination in violation of this law could destroy the business. Is this fair?

Ask the "Squeeze Inn" what they think of people who sue based on the ADA? Now their name no longer applies to their establishment, but at least they survived the lawsuit. I know there are businesses that do not.


So is your solution that no one with a service dog be hired anywhere? Keep that person unemployed and draining taxes because on a rare occasion one person will have such severe allergies that this could become an issue?
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#30 supermom

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 08:45 PM

No "Maybe" about it, this is my scenario. Small business, severe asthma, allergic to all animal danders. The idea that a law states we have to hire a person with a service dog is very unfair IMO. Why should I have to hire an attorney to protect my employment presenting an argument as to why the business should be able to ignore the law. The attorney fees alone would be a burden for myself and the small business. One lawsuit by a disabled person claiming discrimination in violation of this law could destroy the business. Is this fair?

Ask the "Squeeze Inn" what they think of people who sue based on the ADA? Now their name no longer applies to their establishment, but at least they survived the lawsuit. I know there are businesses that do not.


The term reasonable accomodations)-comes into play- in these arguments.




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