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#31 CoachWeise

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Posted 11 July 2004 - 03:39 PM


I don't know if this comes too late or not, but if you have done all or most of the research yourself, one of the best ways I've found to actually obtain the vehicle you've decided on without having to haggle on price, etc is to go through Fleet Services. Most dealerships, if not all, have opened their fleet services to the public now and you'll be able to pick up any car for, usually, $500 over invoice without any negotiation.

Now, if you've worked with a salesman a lot it's probably not appropriate to change and go through fleet, but if you did the leg work yourself, it works well.

When I bought my Chevy Trailblazer I was dealing with a salesman that made promises in order to close the deal that he couldn't keep when it came time to sign the deal so I walked out on him and immediately went to another dealerships fleet services and got the car I wanted without any problems at all.

G/l with the new car!!

Coach Weise.


#32 Cloud9

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 06:37 PM

QUOTE (bishmasterb @ Jul 11 2004, 01:15 PM)
Honda builds good cars, and as much as I like Acura (I own one) I can't imagine that the "A" on the front of the Accord (eg Acura TL) is really worth the premium.

My wife didn't like the way the TL drove, but she did like the way the Accord drove - go figure.

I like the look of the TL but it's a firmer ride, and when looking at the 'luxury' features/differences, we just couldn't spot enough of them to justify the higher cost.

We went through a similar exercise with the Lexus ES330, but once you add the navigation, etc... the price tag wasn't worth it. We passed on the Camry due to the poor (relative) showing in safety (side impact on driver's side) and moved up to the ES330, but the Accord had the right combo. I just wished the vehicle was built in Japan, but for the price difference I'll take my chances....

Interestingly enough, my sister just visited us and we found out that she too bought an Accord sedan.

The big 3 in detroit have been losing market share for years to these guys and I can see why. I hadn't really paid much attention since I purchased my last vehicle 10+ years ago, but the other day there was a party at a neighbor's house and of the 27 cars that were parked there, all but 1 vehicle were Honda and Toyota! The one vehicle was a Ford Taurus.

Detroit is improving on quality, but still has a ways to go to catch up to the Japanese and they don't seem to care much about fuel economy. They claim that American's want the gas guzzlers.... My take is that Americans want the size, power and comfort of the vehicles, but I doubt they'd be complaining if they consumed less fuel.....
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#33 Cloud9

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Posted 12 July 2004 - 06:50 PM

QUOTE (CoachWeise @ Jul 11 2004, 03:39 PM)
Most dealerships, if not all, have opened their fleet services to the public now and you'll be able to pick up any car for, usually, $500 over invoice without any negotiation.

Thanks for the tip, but we've already purchased the car. Costco, AAA, Internet purchases, etc... have similar services.

We've never purchased a car over invoice price...... we add things like LoJack, DVD entertainment, etc... which we realize are padded (although we did get 20% discount on the add-ons), but the car itself you should be able to get a good deal on if you're patient and buy at the right time.

I like to watch the manufacturer inventories (of the cars I'm considering) and see if they're higher than the industry average. As they creep up, manufacturers start offering dealers incentives, out comes the low financing, etc. Then we'll put 6-12 of those dealers into a bidding war for the business. Any dealer within a day's drive is fair game.
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#34 Cloud9

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Posted 26 July 2004 - 10:01 AM


Safety Recall for those of you that may own a 2002-2004 model year Camry

Toyota Camry Safety Recall (2002-2004 model year)
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#35 Cloud9

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Posted 31 July 2004 - 04:39 PM

It's no secret that the Detroit 3 have been losing market share for years to the Japanese.

1. Do you guys think the hybrids will accelerate that trend?

2. What do you think about the Chinese entering the auto business? How soon before they land in America with quality vehicles?
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#36 bishmasterb

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Posted 02 August 2004 - 12:04 PM

Just for some perspective, I'm in Missouri right now and yesterday I quickly counted up some cars in a parking lot. There were between 30 and 40, and all were American except for two (one Honda and one Kia).

The midwest, not surprisingly, is overwhelmingly dominated by American cars.

Interestingly, millionaires also favor American cars by a strong majority. I can't remember the exact figures off the top of my head, but millionaires statistically prefer cars that are big (heavy) and American. The book "The Millionaire Next Door" suggests that millionaires effectively purchase cars "by the pound".

#37 Cloud9

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 03:59 PM

Bish,

You're absolutely right and there's no doubt that there's plenty of American cars on the road. Then again, given that at one point in history we had 100% market share - that should be no surprise.

Not until much after WWII did you see the Japanese get started and it wasn't until many years after that that you began to see them building quality vehicles.

That being said, it's no secret that American car manufacturers lose share to foreign competition every year. Just look at this 1999 share breakout.

user posted image

I believe if I'm not mistaken that Toyota is approaching 13% share, and 80% of Honda's sales are in the American market.

I surmise that the folks interviewed in "The Millionaire Next Door" are in their 50s, and that would make sense to me since they grew up at a time during which foreign manufacturers didn't have a good reputation for quality.


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#38 bishmasterb

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 06:49 PM

It's hard to believe at times just how bad American cars were in the 1970s. Just consider these fine automobiles:

* Ford Mustang Grande
* Ford Pinto
* AMC Pacer
* AMC Gremlin
* Tons of bad, unmemorable GM sedans

I still don't think that American companies are making small vehicles as well as the Japanese, in terms of either style or reliability; although they certainly have gotten better in the last 5 years or so. Trucks and SUVs are still dominated by the big 3; but is that because they are doing it better, or just because there isn't that much competition. It still seems like the Japanese are figuring out that market.

The Millionaire Next Door, as I recall, did attempt to use a random sampling of millionaires; but your point is well taken, millionaires, by and large, would tend to skew older.

It scares me that FIAT has a worldwide market share larger than Honda! smile.gif

#39 Cloud9

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Posted 03 August 2004 - 06:57 PM

Yes, I noticed the FIAT market share, but alas that was 1999. If I'm not mistaken Honda is close to double digits now and FIAT has fallen by the waistside....

I would agree on the Trucks/SUVs... Detroit should be able to rely on that target market for quite some time until the competition figures it out.....
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#40 Cloud9

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 08:19 PM

Japanese Cars Top Fuel Efficiency List
http://story.news.ya...ap/fuel_economy
Fri Oct 8, 7:50 PM ET Business - AP


By DEE-ANN DURBIN, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - Japanese vehicles dominate the government's annual list of vehicles with the best fuel economy, but Ford Motor Co. can claim the most fuel efficient pickup and sport utility vehicle.

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#41 TheCourtJester

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 10:10 PM

QUOTE
Trucks and SUVs are still dominated by the big 3; but is that because they are doing it better, or just because there isn't that much competition. It still seems like the Japanese are figuring out that market.


I sincerely doubt the Japanese will put too much effort into "figuring out" the Truck/SUV market. They simply don't have the "space" we do here, so putting so much money into automobiles that huge is unjustified (even if it is primarily for export) ...

It's like trying to sell a Hummer in London...it just ain't gonna happen. So the "big three" will most likely remain for a good long time...
The depressing thing about tennis is that no matter how good you get, you'll never be as good as a wall.

#42 Cloud9

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 10:16 PM

QUOTE(TheCourtJester @ Oct 8 2004, 10:10 PM)
I sincerely doubt the Japanese will put too much effort into "figuring out" the Truck/SUV market. They simply don't have the "space" we do here, so putting so much money into automobiles that huge is unjustified (even if it is primarily for export) ...

It's like trying to sell a Hummer in London...it just ain't gonna happen. So the "big three" will most likely remain for a good long time...

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The big 3 have been losing market share every year to the Japanese auto makers.

I'm not sure what "space" has to do with it since they manufacture in the U.S., Canada for "export", not Japan.

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#43 TheCourtJester

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 10:24 PM

QUOTE(Cloud9 @ Oct 8 2004, 10:16 PM)
The big 3 have been losing market share every year to the Japanese auto makers.

I'm not sure what "space" has to do with it since they manufacture in the U.S., Canada for "export", not Japan.

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Point taken.

Still...a person living in Japan their whole life (narrow, crowded city streets, overpopulation, ETC) might not see any incentive to produce a vehicle as huge as a truck/SUV.

Just like someone living HERE their whole lives among big trucks/SUV's might not see any reason to start manufacturing "SMART" cars (those tiny little ones ALL over Europe and Asia), even if their manufacturing places are over there...
The depressing thing about tennis is that no matter how good you get, you'll never be as good as a wall.

#44 elvisff

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 11:11 PM

QUOTE(TheCourtJester @ Oct 8 2004, 10:24 PM)
Point taken.

Still...a person living in Japan their whole life (narrow, crowded city streets, overpopulation, ETC) might not see any incentive to produce a vehicle as huge as a truck/SUV.

Just like someone living HERE their whole lives among big trucks/SUV's might not see any reason to start manufacturing "SMART" cars (those tiny little ones ALL over Europe and Asia), even if their manufacturing places are over there...

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Actually that is not true. Think about it, both Nissan and Toyota have now put out full size trucks. It's all about what the market demand is. It is all about the almighty $$. They design our vehicles around what sell in America.

Also if you think about it we are beginning to see an increase in "SMART" cars. And I am not talking about old minis or fiats. I am talking about hybrid cars. As gasoline prices are quickly climbing the demand for more efficient cars has gone up. You have to keep in mind that gasoline in Europe is extremely expensive so more fuel efficient cars have be a necessity there for years.

#45 Cloud9

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Posted 08 October 2004 - 11:16 PM

QUOTE(TheCourtJester @ Oct 8 2004, 10:24 PM)
Point taken.

Still...a person living in Japan their whole life (narrow, crowded city streets, overpopulation, ETC) might not see any incentive to produce a vehicle as huge as a truck/SUV.

Just like someone living HERE their whole lives among big trucks/SUV's might not see any reason to start manufacturing "SMART" cars (those tiny little ones ALL over Europe and Asia), even if their manufacturing places are over there...

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Ah, I see where you've gone wrong my friend... the Japanese don't think like Americans.

If they built cars on local criteria, we wouldn't be buying Japanese cars because aside from the narrow streets, etc... the size of the average Japanese person is smaller, they would have no need to build cars that accomodate 'large' Americans.

Besides, it's one of the industries that I cover for work.... tongue.gif

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